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I'd hardly call him a "sacrificial son". I mean, they 3 of them co-existed from before the universe, and he didn't sacrifice him as you put it, he chose to let he's son come to earth, and be sacrificed for the sins of human kind.

I have to ask, Sarevok. Why can't you see it? This story is so obviously human in origin. What sort of omnipotent god puts two newbies into a paradise, allows satan to wander in, gets pissed when the happy couple make one mistake when egged on by the bad guy, kicks them out, and then they go forth and multiply. Into an obnoxious group of humans that piss off the guy that can foresee everything so he drowns them all except for one family, who is so unimpressed with the death and  mayhem they witnessed that they are right back at the bad guy stuff within weeks of landing, and who consider god so irrelevant that three generations later some are building a tower to heaven and there are already enough of them to let god give them all new languages and send them off to the four corners of the earth or whatever so they won't be able to communicate. When all they have to do is whip out some more folks over the next three generations and whammo, they have enough to build another tower. But that plot line is passé by then but that's okay because you've got Abraham and Job and Moses and other things to do while folks run around in their various sin cities doing the horizontal mambo or whatever and continually pissing off the big guy so down comes the kid to go through the sacrifice ritual and bang!, a path to righteousness is created. And it all applies today. Two thousand years after the kid promised he would return. Like, you know, within the lifetime of those he told he would return.

Most religions have a moral component. Do this or that right or the god of poison ivy will rub leaves all over your private parts. Don't anger the gods by doing that or a few of them will come down and boil you in oil and serve you with lentils. Religions contain advise, moral lessons, guidelines and just plain old hints and tips on how to decorate your hut for under 50 shekels. And they all insist they are right and the rest are false.

Coincidence? I don't think so. Each one is made up, and each one exists for the specific needs of that particular group. When christianity spread far and wide, the groups went into customization mode because goats fucking in front of striped sticks and the fear of iron chariots didn't apply any more. Catholicism begat Lutheranism which begat Calvinism which begat the First Immaculate Church of Rattlesnakes and Root Beer and Jesus, and 30,000+ subdivisions later one of them ended up as you.

A real god doesn't need drama. Humans do. A real god doesn't need to staple his kid to sticks. He just says "Golly gee, perhaps I wasn't clear. Here, let me clarify with a new book, illustrated by Michelangelo, with movie rights sold to Paramount."  Relying on goat herders and camel jockeys to get his word out was about as wise as letting first graders set national gun policy. Oh wait, they're actually qualified now. Nevermind.

Anyway, the Jesus thing is just one more in a silly string of tales designed to impress or control or scare or all of the above the people directly under the influence of the clergy of the time. Not because god casually mentioned that they should do so, but because they themselves decided to, whether on their own or because their overlords told them to.

This is human all the way down. None of it required a god in any way, shape or form. If it had, none of it would have happened  that way. I understand that you are impressed with the bible, but this is because you have been told it is true. Not because it actually is.

A competent god would have given competent instructions to beings that he competently constructed and competently taught. A competent god would allow for variation, stay involved with his creation and show his love rather than just mouthing the words invisibly. A competent god would insist on clergy that was close to as moral as he is and use his infinite wisdom to bestow a bit of understanding in himself when confronted with the occasional rebellious soul. A competent god would have competent angels, a viable storyline and an interest in those whom he is forcing to exist in his gated community.

There is little that is inherently moral in evolved beings. However, we are smart enough to label things right and wrong and certainly some of us are going to make up stories that teach lessons pertinent to the social order of things. At times they will take on religious overtones as gods and other forces are introduced to explain certain otherwise strange plot lines. Civilizations and tribes have been doing this for many thousands of years. It is to be expected. What is not to be expected is that the same tripe will be swallowed over and over by generation after generation for thousands of years. Except we didn't evolve well enough to avoid self-delusion and/or fantasies.

Jesus didn't die for our sins, but millions have died for his story. God didn't create the heavens and the earth in seven days, but millions have died believing or died killing because they thought that to be true. Jesus didn't do his zombie routine, but many millions more have perished with that thought, either believing or fearing it. And even today, there are those believers who would kill me on the spot if they had the chance, merely because I am not as gullible as they are.

The lack of perfection in humans comes from a myriad of sources, biological, social, psychological, etc. But none of them come from one silly and naïve young lady who dared to eat of the tree of knowledge, and none of us have been saved by a mythical forsaken son.

I'm sure if you've read this you are either assuming the your god is testing you or that this is satan tempting you. Religious people keep their world small enough to fit into and fill the thought centers of the brain, thereby disallowing anything original or unique or true from taking up valuable space. I get so tired of hearing ten thousand different excuses for every frickin' verse in the bible. We get theist after theist here telling us their truth, and they never, and I mean never, agree with each other enough for us to see a pattern. Unless you're into Jackson Pollack.

You are here telling us your version. mrhaberling is here telling us his. You know who else has been here? BladeoftheImmortal, Jeremy0, SHIN KARI. joebowers, Frank, TheGodYouForsaken, holybuckets, SwasyesGhost, Jstwebbrowsing, Johnny Spunkypants, JesusOnlySaves, Iloveyou, meconopsilo, Olivianus, etc., etc., etc. That's just in the last 6 or 8 months. That's not even all of them. And guess what. No two of you agree on enough to make your alibi stick.

I consider this inconsistency to be a sure sign of a poorly written and completely false story. No god, no matter how infinite he is, can come up with that many versions of himself. Let alone that many excuses for all the inconsistencies.


Changed Change Reason Date
Nam Take a breath, man. January 23, 2013, 09:35:20 PM
Backspace Wow - that was awesome. Well done. January 17, 2013, 10:41:06 PM