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Graybeard

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How about people who would die for what they believed?
   

Who would die for a lie?

"Yes, many people have died for a lie, but they did so believing it was the truth. If the Resurrection had not happened, obviously the disciples would have known it. Therefore, they would not only have died for a lie—here’s the catch—but they would have known it was a lie. It would be hard to find a group of men anywhere in history who would die for a lie if they knew it was a lie."

This is the weirdest piece of so-called logic I have seen in a long time. The terminally, religiously, deluded delight in martyrdom. I take it that you have heard of suicide bombers who believe they will inherit a number of virgins?

Take the example of yourself: you admit that there is no evidence for Jesus’s divinity in that there is no evidence for deities but nevertheless, and, irrationally, you are convinced of the truth of their being at least one god.

If there were a Jesus and if there were a resurrection, we can therefore dismiss everyone who was willing to die for a cause who was not present during that time. This leaves the disciples. Unfortunately, we do not know what they went around saying. We do not know that they preached the resurrection. We know very little of their lives after about 40AD: all we know is what the New Testament says that they said and did and the NT often contradicts known history.

I draw your attention to the Gospel of Mark. It has no reference to a virgin birth and it ends at 16:8 and is allegedly the most authoritative and from which other writers took their information and ideas. Mark does not include reference to the resurrection. Later writers added 9-20 to correct what they saw was an omission.

I also draw your attention to points that many other members and I have made to you:

1.   If anyone had risen from death by judicial execution, this would have been recorded by the Romans and also by the Jews.
2.   If, at the alleged crucifixion, there had been earthquakes, violent winds, and the dead rising from their graves, this would have been recorded by the Romans and also by the Jews.
3.   If there had been a man who walked on water, raised the dead, cured the sick, etc, do you not think that Christianity would have taken off in the area around where he did these things? Yet Judaism is alive and well and (if he were there at all, accurately) states Jesus was a minor prophet.
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median Well said :thumbsup: August 18, 2013, 10:09:10 AM