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    Global Moderator

    Posts: 6749
  • Darwins +485/-5

yeah right the chances that a mechanic with the right equipment would be the second car and stop within 2 minutes of me praying for a miracle are outstanding odds. Escpecially outstanding that is that his phone would say praise God.

Really?  How do you calculate those odds?

First point: the fact that he stopped at all, and that his phone said "praise God", are not worthy of seperate mention.  Clearly from his phone he is a committed Christian, and so he would of course stop for you, knowing as he did the story of the Good Samaritan.

But one thing I don't understand - what exactly are you claiming your god DID in this instance?  I can think of three possibles, though perhaps you have another in mind?  I'd be grateful if you would let me know which of these you are claiming is correct.

1) God made the man stop.  The most trivial of claims.  The man was driving along that road entirely by coincidence.  He did not intend to stop (Bad Christian!  See above), but your god altered his mind and forced him to decide to stop.  If this is your claim, how do you reconcile that with Free Will (assuming you believe in it)?

2) God made the man a mechanic.  That man would have been driving along anyway, and would have stopped anyway.....but your god ensured that his life decisions resulted in him becoming a mechanic.  This is a greater steamrollering of free will, what if he'd wanted to be a surgeon but (in order to fulfil your prayer), your god altered his mind and made him opt for the life of a mechanic?  This implies that your god has no problem with taking huge swipes at a person's life and forcing them down a particular road.  Are you comfortable with that?

3) God made sure the man was on that road.  Wow.  Now this likely requires a HUGE amount of intervention in the world.  At minimum, he was forced to choose a different route to that which he would have preferred to take.  But it could mean that, to ensure he took THAT route, your god had to ensure he was on his way to a call, say.  Are you suggesting your god caused someone else's car to break down, in order that the machanic was driving along that road at that time?

With all the above, remember that you are claiming this was a MIRACLE, and not coincidence.  For it to be a miracle, it has to have been something your god actually DID - so you cannot therefore claim that your god did NOT override that man's free will on your behalf.

And that's what I don't get - your god apparently places a huge reliance on free will and people making choices....and yet, because you are too dumb to know how to use a jack, or to carry a spare tyre, he happily overrode free will to a significant degree in order to save you some inconvenience.  Is that the god that you wish to protray to us?  Because is sounds like your god has huge double standards if you are.

Final thought: no matter how you cut it, your claim is that your god directly intervened in the world, rapidly and significantly, to answer your prayer.  So why aren't you praying for a cure for cancer, or for an  end to famine?  You've shown us that god jumps when you call, so why not pray for others rather than yourself?

And if you ARE praying for those things.....can you explain why your god leaps so quickly to your aid to save you a little inconvenience, but ignores you when you ask for aid for the suffering of others?

If you REALLY want us to come around to your god, those are questions you need to answer.
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