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    Global Moderator

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  • Darwins +485/-5

I don't think people are born with evil, for lack of a better word, in them.  They are made that way......

Oh, I quite agree.  But then you need to explain why it was that Adam and Eve sinned, and whether their punishment was just.

If they sinned because they were bad.....then (by your argument) they were made that way by Yahweh.  So (again, by your argument) what they did was HIS fault.

Conversely, if they were good, but sinned inadvertently, then Yahweh's reaction was an extreme overreaction.....especially when you also insist that he loves everyone unconditionally.

You can't have it both ways, June - if people are the way they are because of the experiences that shape them, then the Fall becomes directly attributable to Yahweh, since EVERYTHING back them was exactly the way he wanted it to be.  But if people are the way they are because they are created that way, then - again - all the blame lies squarely with Yahweh.  Either way, someone who loves unconditionally would not have thrown such a paddy.

You say you love your son.  Imagine that you tell him "don't eat those cookies I just baked".  When you discover later that he ate them, he says "but Bobby told me I could!".  Bobby, in this case, being a boy who just moved in next door, who you know - but that your son does not - is an inveterate liar.  How severely would you punish your son in that case?

I'd be interested to see how you square the circle of the Fall with your assertions that "bad people are made", "Yahweh created everything", and "Yahweh loves everyone".

- - - - -

Actually, just remembered that you don't follow the traditional Christian religion.  But of course you still haven't defined exactly what it is you DO believe, which makes it rather difficult to hold a conversation with you.
Changed Change Reason Date
12 Monkeys great points,thanks February 25, 2013, 12:12:01 PM
naemhni Very well stated. February 25, 2013, 06:56:02 AM