Karma reasons for concrete message

Message

Anfauglir

    Moderator


    Posts: 5965
  • Darwins +371/-4

Junebug, I think the problem is that the way you describe what you believe jumps about so much.  In your first post, you talked of

a personal relationship with my Creator.  .....  when i need Him He is there, not always with the answers I want, but with the answers I need.  There has been so many times He was the only One that I had

which mirrors the personal relationship that Christians speak of.  You capitalise the G in god, you capitalise the personal pronouns, which again are things very specific to the Christian god, and then went on to say (my bold)

I am that certain that God exists. I don't need to see Him to know He is there.  .....  I would describe my relationship as this; unconditional love. 

God as I know Him is the Creator of this solar system, earth, and mankind.  He lives every where in everything, and when I need Him He is there.  God loves us all no matter what ..... i searched God out to find out if my eternal life was condemned and God revealed to me that it wasn't through years of study and searching for truth.

Again, very specific, very personal, very reminiscent of the Christian god.  And perhaps the clearest reference:

His love is manifested every second of every hour with every beat of my heart His love is manifested through us and His Holy Spirit.

His Holy Spirit.....very, very specific to Christianity.

But then, you suddenly change tack:

I am not religious......I do believe a spiritual force helped me thru it, maybe we weren't created by that force maybe we were, I'm thinking the jury is still out on that one, but there is a spiritual force in this world. 

...and go from a very specific and personal god-with-a-capital-G to a "spiritual force" - are you surprised that we not only don't understand what you believe, but are left wondering whether you yourself know what it is you believe?  Can you define "spiritual force", for example?

Its very rare that we have two believers come to this forum who agree on exactly what their god is - and yet they are all invaribly convinced that their experiences are conclusive proof that THEIR god exists.  To look just within this thread, there is you and there is Wayne.  You have both had experiences.  You are both sure that those experienced led you to knowledge of "god".  But you both have very, very different ideas of who and what that "god" actually is, and it is this that makes it so difficult for us.

Difficult for us on the practical level, because (without extensive questioning) we have no idea of what the latest believer actually believes about their chosen god.  And difficult on the philosophic level because the important step - the detailed discussion of the causality between experience and conclusion - there is nothing to prove that their conclusions are correct: nothing that makes it possible to say "Junebug experienced this, so therefore her explanation of the reasons behind the experiences is correct" in preference to Wayne, or Afadly, or Dominic, or Shin Kairi. 

That's why you will experience resistance to any half-explained ideas you put forward: we've heard the same arguments time and time again, but ALWAYS with a different conclusion.  Which is why statements like this....

You will never find the evidence your seeking unless you open your mind

....are singularly unhelpful.  Members who were around at the time will remember Afadly, and his carefully constructed case for Allah being the one true god.  "He said it before YOU did", is the point I'm making, so if I'd had that open mind I'd now be specifically a Muslim, and be vigorously opposing your blasphemous assertions that everyone goes to heaven.

If you can grok why I'm not a Muslim, you'll be able to understand why I'm not merrily accepting everything you say with that "open mind".
Changed Change Reason Date
ParkingPlaces Excellent! What more can I say? February 19, 2013, 09:14:40 AM
wheels5894 Great exponentiation of Junebug's muddled thinking. February 19, 2013, 07:43:14 AM