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#### Anfauglir

Global Moderator

Posts: 6395
• Darwins +438/-5

My 5K was great, thanks for asking Anfauglir .

And there's no change with my mother, thanks for asking Wayne.  We're not friends, Wayne, and what your hobbies are off this forum is a matter of supreme indifference to me, so perhaps you should use less of the sarcasm that you are so quick to castigate us for?

What I asked you, was how DID you determine that?  What makes you so positive that that you have no ability to predict earthquakes?

The point, I suspect, is this - that you are saying that YOU are not the earthquake predictor, but rather than your god is.  And that is where the correlation/causation thing comes in.

So you have asserted here that there is no causal relationship between your ability to predict earthquakes, and sciences.
But how do you know that, Wayne?  How can you state it so certainly?  How - if you'll excuse me banging the point home - do you determine if two things have a causal relationship, or not?

Wayne, you're still not answering my question - you are answering A question, but its not the one I am posing.  You overall answer is that:

The more of these incidents kind of pile up in my dossier, the less apt I am to trouble myself with statistical analysis, and I think you can understand why in my case.

That essentially, because you believe in your particular god, you assume that every incidence is directly attributable to your god, and you will not attempt any other explanation.  So actually, I guess in a way that DOES answer my question:

"How does Wayne determine if two things have a causal relationship? Answer: he doesn't, he just assumes causality in every situation."

If that's the case, then fine - confirm that and we can drop the subject.  But if that is NOT the case, and there ARE situations where something happens and you DO ascribe it to coincidence, then can you please give an example - and take me through the thought processes you use to come to that conclusion?

Quick hypothetical for you, on a similar subject.  I put it to you that EVERY intervention in your life that you have ascribed to your god, was actually carried out by Satan.  This has led you to a deeper belief in your god…..but has also fooled you into thinking you had a special place in your god's attentions.  Regardless of whether he puts on earthquakes for your enjoyment, or spends inordinate amounts of time directing the actions of you and others to move and speak at precise points, the result is that you have believed that your god is, specifically, ordering things to give special messages to you.  With the result being that you are so sure of your experiences that you come to an atheist forum to tell us those tales…..tales that - as we have intimated before - are driving us FURTHER from your god.

In short, Satan has done all this in your life to ensure that you will lead to many, many souls being driven to him rather than to god.

Can you explain by what means you would determine that that scenario is incorrect?

How are you driving us towards Satan, you ask?  Like this:

It would be awfully flattering to me that he would have said, I'm going to blow Wayne's mind and cause an earthquake for his sake when he says the word IMPACT.  Alternatively he, being omniscient, knew the precise moment and simply got me up, put me in the car, guided me to Paul's, had those ladies waiting, and a seat open, then gave her the idea to talk about Pat Robertson, had me respond at precisely the time that the earthquake had been scheduled for the millenia.  The second scenario is a little less flattering to me and so that is the one I tend to believe.

But I have to be careful, because I don't want to limit God's power to say that he didn't just line up the earthquake with my words.  He did break the diaphragm on my gas pump spontaneously, (or made sure that the batman movie and that particular Colorado screening of it waited until my gas pump was ready to fail).  See the problem?

Because what you describe, over and over again, is a god that - although he will not go so far as to cause or prevent earthquakes, is more than ready to take innumerable attentions to one special little snowflake, not only with direct interventions in their life (break that gas pump!  Cut those lights!  Shout in his ear!) but also to take immense and subtle pains to direct the steps of him and others to line things up juuust right.  What pains your god took to somehow push your steps to that restaurant!  What pains he took to ensure that that woman was there!  And what pains he took, either to force his way into your brains to have you be saying just the right words, or to have directed their lives so precisely over the months and years beforehand such that they "just happened" to be saying those things right them.

The picture you paint, Wayne, is of a god who can and will take immense pains in the life of one man, who will directly and materially intervene in his life, time and time again.  A god who steps in and DOES stuff.  Which is all fine and dandy, and may indeed be the case.  Every thing you say has happened, everything you say your god does, may be true.

But then the question that we ask ourselves is: where was this interventionist god when this girl was raped?  When this baby was killed?  Where was the subtle influence on her life that made her think "I'll take this road instead of that" and so avoided her rapist?  Where was the broken fuel pump that delayed the killer and put that child out of his reach?  The god you describe is proven entirely able to do those things, entirely prepared to step in and take action…..but doesn't.  And I've yet to hear a definite answer to that question: when I ask it of you, all I get in response is "I've answered that somewhere" (to which I repeat: where?  Because I've certainly no recollection of your answer).  With the result, Wayne, that I am left to come up with my OWN answer - which is that your god is NOT a Very Nice Guy, and so I am left feeling that he either cannot exist, or exists but is a being that I consider to be scum.

You can choose to answer my questions, or not.  But be aware that if you do not, then you give me another push away from your god…..and you may want to factor that in to your answer as to how you tell that your god, and not Satan, was responsible for all the good things and "signs" in your life.
Changed Change Reason Date
kaziglu bey Excellent questions which will sadly go unanswered February 12, 2013, 10:57:38 AM
12 Monkeys Great posts that will be ignored or dismissed February 12, 2013, 10:44:24 AM