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    Global Moderator

    Posts: 6749
  • Darwins +485/-5

I'm flattered that you think that I could tell you why God does a specific thing….

Then what can we discuss?  If you can't tell me why your god does, or does not, do something, then there is no way that you can convince me that it is good.  Its as simple as that. 

…..or why anything ever ever dies.  We would have to start with the imagination that nothing or no one should ever die and then start blaming someone or something if it should ever happen.  You are wearing yourself out from that perspective and I can't help you with it.  If you haven't gotten used to the fact that people die, I can see why you keep needling me about it……

Gosh, people die, do they?  Thanks for letting me know, Wayne - I hadn't realised that.

Of course people die.  And I hope that - like me - you would get angry with anyone who could prevent death but chose not to.  It seems you may agree…..

If during that quake my daughter or someone I knew died, I wouldn't be laughing. 

….but ONLY if the person who dies is someone you like.  If not…..screw 'em, right Wayne?  All part of your god's plan. 

If your daughter dies tomorrow, Wayne, I advise you to simply
get over it
…because death is just something that happens.

And I want to know exactly how you define the actions it took as "good".
In eternity, the end of life on earth could be defined as good, to a Christian
So if I killed your daughter, that would be good?
No that would be bad.

I'm confused.  You said that the end of a life, to a Christian like you, is good.  But if I took the life of your daughter, it would be bad.  What is the difference?

Final question: imagine I KNOW, 100%, that an imminent event will cause several deaths.  That I have the power to warn someone, someone who may be able to prevent those deaths.
I do not do so.  Am I good or evil, Wayne?

I would say that it would be evil if you knew to do good and decided to instead do evil, and that would apply in many other cases as well.  So yes you would be evil.  But you want to apply that standard to God, and you are just wasting your time.

So why is there a different standard, Wayne?  Lay it out for me. 

Because you've told me, up there, that you CAN'T tell me why your god does what it does.  So how do you come to apply a different standard to a being you can't understand, than you would apply to any other being?

But I get your drift, you are angry that God allows bad things to happen.

Heh - no Wayne, I'm not angry at your god, because I don't believe it exists.  How angry are you at Batman?  Not at all, I suspect, because you are intelligent enough to know that Batman doesn't exist.  But I suspect you ARE angry at the things that the character of Batman represents, at the things that belief in Batman makes some people do.

If you detect anger in me Wayne, it's that - the anger at what the belief in your god can make people do.  In your case, it has taken a man who has clear ideas of what is good and evil, and make him indifferent to deaths that occur around him.  Indifferent to any deaths (oh, except of course when they impact on his nearest and dearest).  It’s a belief that has made him twist his understanding of good and evil so that he can award a "get-out" to his god.  A creature whose actions he cannot explain, whose actions he defines as the exact opposite of good, but who he will, nevertheless, call "good".

That makes me angry, Wayne, angry and sad.  That like so many others, you are so ready to ascribe hidden motives to a creature whose actions - without your unsubstantiated preconceptions - you would not hesitate to describe as evil.
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