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Anfauglir

    Global Moderator


    Posts: 6210
  • Darwins +411/-5

What a lot of evasion.  I really must commend you on your abilities.  First off, you completely ignored this entire section:


God exists, and you shouldn't let even the most emotionally traumatic moments in your life persuade you that he doesn't love you, care about you, and want to spend all of eternity with you, blessing you with abundant joy, indeed rejoined with your dad and sister once again.

Please don't cheapen words like love and care in this way.  I had, and have, many real friends and family you demonstrated their love and care on a regular basis.  Who actually do and did things for me to see me through, even when it was a strain on their time and on more tangible resources.  This "god" you claim loves me, cares about me, has infinite resource and no barriers to demonstrating that resource - and chose to do nothing, as he continues, day by day, to do nothing to show that love and care.

So I repeat - don't cheapen the efforts of those who DO, by claiming that some creature who does nothing is displaying the same behaviours, because it demonstrably isn't so.

Now lets look at the other twists you've had to use.

If you want to know why God might choose to interact with humanity differently at different times in history, I have no idea

No idea.  Okay.

Then you proceed to tell us exactly why.  That "two sides of the mouth" thing.

God is omniscient and allows things that we consider tragic because they are not objectively bad in the grand scheme of things…… he's waiting for everyone who will be saved to be saved.

On to the next piece of foolishness.

(in my sisters case) there were very definite prayers being said on her behalf, that he specifically chose to ignore.  A being that has the ability to act, is requested to act, and has a record of acting, is a very definite proximate cause.  He is as responsible as would have been a doctor with the skills to operate, but who stood by and ignored the pleas to do anything....who the day before, and the day after, had operated on others.  So, very definitely, Yahweh is the proximate cause.

The vast majority of American jurisdictions would find Phelps not liable, because he had no duty to act. Phelps is not the proximate cause.  But wouldn't Phelps rightfully be considered an enormous ass even if he escapes legal consequences? Pretty much.  Sooner or later, some way or another, your dad and sister both would have died the child would still have drowned.

Good point.  If we consider Phelps to be an enormous ass, then we must consider Yahweh to be just as big an ass, because your point is "we all die anyway, which is a Good Thing".  So in your little scenario, we must applaud Phelps for his inaction, as he sped that child to heaven.

The enormous asses, in your screwed up world, are the nurses and firefighters, the people who intervene when they see people getting beaten, the organisations who ship food to the starving, ANYONE who takes action to prolong life.  Because everyone dies anyway, and death is good (provided you've chosen the correct mythology).

Sorry IDK - you can't say Phelps is an ass, and let Yahweh off the hook - and if Yahweh is good for not acting, then firefighters and nurses are swine.

Okay….next piece of dribble:

But bodily death isn't the end, according to Scripture. Your dad and sister now live in perfect bodies, and they will never suffer again.

Ah, I see.  So Yahweh ensures that Christians always die when they are in life-threatening situations.  Thanks for clearing that up.  By that logic, the best thing I can do for Christians would be to shoot them in the head - after all, they will die anyway, right?  This life is " infinitesimally small, immeasurable really".  Send me your address, I'll come help you on to the next life - this one is pretty pointless, as you say.

More nonsense:

It's not that he can't be bothered at the moment but that he's waiting for everyone who will be saved to be saved. If the Second Coming of Christ occurred, for example, in the Dark Ages, then neither you nor I nor anyone we personally know would have ever lived. There have been millions, perhaps billions of people since the Dark Ages come to be saved. And so the evil that exists in the world is outweighed by those souls that have been saved, because it increases the number of people in heaven.

So….what are you saying?  There are a whole load of souls floating around somewhere waiting to be born, and god can't sort the world out because he has to wait to see how those souls will turn out?  That HAS to be the case - that there is a finite number of souls - otherwise we'll just keep on reproducing and god will keep pinching out more souls to plop into the bodies.  An endless possibility of souls means this world will forever be a place of evil.

So "limited souls" then.  But here's the rub: not every soul gets the same chance in life.  The soul dumped into a Bible Belt body in a good Christian family gets a far better chance of salvation then the one dumped into a poor Muslim family in Iran.  "Don't conflate the plan with proximate cause", you bleat - but, again, your god IS the proximate cause.  By deciding where to plop all those souls, he effectively decided which get saved, and which do not.

Your theology is a mess, quite frankly, I'm not surprised you dodge points like this:

My maternal grandmother has dementia, and she's in a pitiful state currently. God is allowing it.

Yes.  On a daily basis.  Proximate cause, no matter how you wish to deny it.

Your grandmother, my mother.  Every day, your god thinks "hmm….call them home to the inevitable glory than awaits them, or let them live to suffer another day of fear and anguish?"  And every day, he decided to let them suffer a bit more.  Praise god.
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