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Anfauglir



    Posts: 5959
  • Darwins +371/-4

Objective means something isn't based on opinion so consensus of opinion plays no part if it's objective, so there can be an objective moral value without consensus of the all people. It's the act in itself thats wrong.

This is why i'm "incredulous" because i'm actually talking to people who think the rape and murder of children is subject to personal opinion, not an objective rule wich says it ALWAYS wrong. Please someone say it aint so !

L-Chaim,

You seemed to think I made some valid points last time, so I'll try again.

I do not think that rape and murder of children is right.  You will find nobody on this forum (I think)who will say that it is right.  That in no way proves it is an objective moral, only that we all happen to share the same opinion.  You have - quite naturally, for your argument - chosen an extreme opinion that is shared by the vast majority of the world.  What you have NOT done - and don't appear to understand the reason we are asking for it - is display exactly why that general concensus equals objectivity, as opposed to a gross-scale shared subjective opinion.

However, you WILL find people in the world who will say that those things ARE good.  Perhaps more pertinently, you will find if you go back through history of various cultures that there were times and places where killing the innocent was a generally good thing: I've noted a couple of times about the Aztecs, for example.  All of which appears to show that the issues you mention are NOT objective moral truths, since there have been so many who do not agreed they are correct.

If you wish to label all those people as looney or wrong or deluded, then that is fine.  But to do so with any credibility, you need to show exactly WHY they were so: and to do that you need to explain quite clearly HOW those particular things are objective moral truths.

NOT to create strawmen that lambast us for asking how you jump from "socially accepted consensual morality" to "objective morality".  It may be a good red herring to deflect attention from the actual question, but to be honest I expected a little more of you.
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