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JeffPT



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This analogy makes an incorrect fundamental assumption. First of all I am not adamant about anything.

Oh!  Ok, then.  Pardon me.  Let me change a word or 2 here and you can give it another go.  Ignore the first one and just address this one. 

Say you're walking down the street with 2 of your friends and you all come upon a plain cardboard box in front of you that you've never seen before.  Your ask your first friend what's inside the box and he says he doesn't know.  You ask your second friend and he says there is a toaster in the box.  Upon asking your second friend how he knows it's a toaster, he says that he has faith that it's a toaster.  Which of your 2 friends is being more reasonable?

I believe in God by faith. I accept that you have difficulty with someone who might be of average intelligence holding that believe.

You're right.  I do have a problem with that.  Just as much as I have a problem with the guy who says he has faith that there's a toaster in the box.  My intuition tells me you'd have a problem with him too. 

That is all I expect from an atheist because by the nature of the fact that you are a healthy skeptic, you should not be unequivocal on something you do not know. And that is the same with me. The difference is that I have faith - which you dismiss.

In other words, you turn off your healthy skepticism when it comes to your God.  Faith, of the kind you practice when it comes to God, is not a virtue in any sense.  You've probably been taught that it is, but it's not.  It's not virtuous to have faith that there's a toaster in the box, and it's certainly not virtuous to have faith in God.   

As a matter of interest, do you have faith in anything?
Not of the sort you practice with God belief.  No. 

That would be an informed quess

No.  Religion is not an informed guess.  It's the prototypical uninformed guess.  Let me give you an example to illustrate...

In the past, people believed an earthquake was God voicing his anger.  This, as you probably know (since you're living in the 21st century) was an uninformed guess.  The informed guess is plate tectonics, not God.  The more things we learn like that, the more we realize that God was nothing more than the uninformed guess of the masses who had nothing else to look to for answers. 

Can you proof the existence of your mind to me?
Define what you mean by 'mind' first and I will try to reasonably prove that I have one.   

I didn't say it was bad. In fact, it is a perfectly legitimate stance to take. However, you appear to be very vocal against someone taking a stance on grounds of faith.

Because in every other area of discourse, appealing to faith will get you laughed out of the building; and I see no reason to think God belief should get a special pass in that regard.  Tell me why faith in God is respectable, but faith that there's a toaster in the box isn't.   

Sorry, did I say anything about one position being superior?

If you won't, then I will.  The atheist position of not having faith in God is superior to the position of having faith in God in the exact same way that not having faith that there's a toaster in the box is superior to having faith that there's a toaster in the box. 

No, I would not say that. I would say I know enough to have faith that the box contains a toaster.

No sir.  Knowing is the opposite of having faith.  If you have knowledge of something, then you don't need faith to believe in it.  Let me continue the toaster example...

Say someone wrote a book (someone you don't know) that said there's a toaster in every box you come upon unexpectedly.  Is that good enough to go on?  Say they used the argument 'well, the box is big enough to fit a toaster'; is that good enough?  What if a million people ALL said there was a toaster in the box, but not one of them had ever seen the box prior to saying there was a toaster in it; is that good enough?  No, no, no.  It's not good enough.  This is the same thing with God.  You don't know anything about God that wasn't told to you or that you read in a book.  You have no evidence at all. You just don't.  There's no evidence that leads to the conclusion that God is real. 

It's all fake, zele.  Sorry.   

Changed Change Reason Date
median A just plain awesome response to a Christian douche-bag. June 18, 2013, 12:40:54 AM
jdawg70 Big fan of the toaster analogy. June 17, 2013, 08:00:27 PM