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JeffPT



    Posts: 1984
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Yes, I can. As I just mentioned in another post, if irrefutable evidence is presented proving that God does not exist, I would, with great sadness, terminate my beliefs.

Belief or disbelief in god (any god, including your personal fake version) is not about irrefutable evidence.  It's about reasonable doubt.  It has to be about reasonable doubt because there is no evidence to be found in favor of the existence of god; and there is no such thing as irrefutable evidence that something does not exist (especially something with the characteristics of an omnimax being).  Let me ask you though... what would you consider to be irrefutable evidence that God does not exist?  Hypothetically, of course.  Imagine what that evidence would look like, then let us all know. 

But just because we can't make a firm conclusion in either direction, that doesn't make it a stalemate BS.  There is WAY more than enough reasonable doubt at this point in time.  Every new discovery that science makes pushes the god theory further and further away as a necessary postulate.  Reasonable, educated people don't say, "God sent that earthquake" anymore.  They know that earthquakes happen from plate tectonics.  Everything is like that.  Read my signature, it sums up the entire thing.     

The 'great sadness' part is also very telling.  You love your beliefs, and that's what makes them so difficult for you to let go of.  Deep down, you know the whole thing is ridiculous, but you love that ridiculous belief.  Have you ever heard a scientist say, "I would be so sad if evolution wasn't true"?  If they did, what would you think of them?  Would you not think that part of the reason they hold onto it is precisely because they enjoy believing as they do? 

You don't consider knowing where life came from to be critical in determining how your theist/non-theist beliefs are formed?

You don't know where life came from Biblestudent.  Nobody does.  You might claim that it came from god, but you don't really know.  Your belief, however, is nothing but a 2000 year old attempt at understanding, with not a single bit of evidence to back it up.   Where life came from is not something that atheists pretend to KNOW the answer to.  You theists like to do that, but I like truth more than making shit up.  So, what am I to do?  I shrug my shoulders and wait for the evidence to roll in.  BUT, in the mean time, what I WILL do is look around at the universe and see what everything else comes from and how it operates, so I can hedge my bets in the right direction.  Since nothing else... NOTHING ELSE that we understand (and we do understand a huge amount) in the universe seems to require the presence of a supernatural power to explain it, it suddenly becomes very easy to say that beyond any serious doubt, life, in all it's complex forms, arose out of natural processes, just like everything else.  This is not FAITH that life came from natural processes, it is an educated conclusion based on the fact that everything else in the universe that we understand arose naturally and the stuff that all life forms are comprised of (including me) is part of that universe.  There is nothing special about the atoms that make up our bodies other than their arrangement.  Those same elements are found all over the universe.  And if stars, planets, black holes, solar systems, comets, asteroids, pulsars, and everything else in the universe can use those same elements and form from natural processes, life forming out of them is also the most likely scenario, even if we don't fully understand the exact mechanism yet.  If, on the other hand, everything about our universe defied a scientific explanation, then it would be far more reasonable to say that some form of god was at work. 

Sam Harris sums this up well... "I challenge anyone here to think of a question upon which we once had a scientific answer, however inadequate, but for which now the best answer is a religious one." 

Would you like to claim that the empirical data we have collected that are explained by the Dark Matter and Dark Energy theories is better answered by 'God did it'?  I don't think you're trying to do that, because you know that would be stupid.  You know that even if those are shown to be poor theories in the future, it will not be religious theories that overturn them; you know they'll be scientific ones. 

Until someone comes up with a response to what Mr. Harris said, Biblestudent, the god theory is nothing but a step in the wrong direction.  It just is and always will be because god isn't real. 
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nogodsforme Clearly and elegantly argued. July 28, 2012, 03:25:45 PM