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Chatter / Re: Community
« Last post by kaziglu bey on Today at 04:34:23 PM »
What you missed is this: I have suffered so much that adding more suffering on my emotions is like trying to stack a mountain on a matchstick.

I cant take anymore suffering.  Suicide is good evidence that life can dish out more than a person can bear.  I don't want to cry anymore.
Junebug, greetings, I am kaziglu bey. I was away from he forum for a bit, and don't recall your history or situation and having just recently returned, would have a lot of catching up to do. I don't know what got you into moderation either. But I do know suffering and pain, and darkness and sadness and despair. They are old friends of mine. If you are ever struggling and need support, please feel free to PM me. It is a hard road to journey alone, even though we often tend to think that we feel better by isolating. It's OK to know that you need help and ask for it.

Quote
My therapist is going to try EMDR therapy because I expressed my concern that our work had plateued. 

I told her that I'm having difficulty following through with her suggestions, that I couldn't find the switch in my brain to change bad habits (leaving here is a very insignificant suggestion).  She said it may be related to my childhood trauma.  That our long term memories are stored in our brains and that when we try to change habits the information your brain has to make those decisions are messed up.  She said the evidence of this is the memory section lights up when a person is trying to make a decision. 

We start next week.
 
I hope that this helps and that you find relief soon. Changing behaviors can be very difficult, especially in the case of childhood trauma. I have a lot of stuff I have had to work through and even at 35 i still find myself having a hard time. I think ta one of the reasons is that things that are now negative were probably survival skills when dealing with the trauma. Our bodies and mind are naturally reluctant to let go f behaviors that have served us well in the past. 
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Chatter / Re: "What are you listening to now"... take three...
« Last post by jdawg70 on Today at 04:25:01 PM »
Time for covers

Artist: Camera Obscure
Track: Some Guys Have All the Luck


Artists: Angie Hart, Katie Noonan, Sam Buckingham, and Maples
Track: When You Were Mine


Artist: Kate Walsh
Track: A Little Respect


Artist: Tori Amos
Track: Time
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Chatter / Re: Community
« Last post by junebug72 on Today at 02:54:21 PM »
Thanks for pointing out that there are cons of being part of a community. 

I don't want the responsibility.  I'm getting more and more comfortable not being around people.  I'm much safer posting online than being around people IRL.
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Chatter / Re: Community
« Last post by junebug72 on Today at 02:50:12 PM »
Junebug,

Regarding what you said before on your therapist instructing you to leave here, what happened there then? You mentioned that some while back, but since haven't mentioned any more on this. Why did you decide (apparently anyways) not to follow this advice?

Going by the recent applaud you gave me, I take it that you didn't truly mean what you said about seeking out another forum to post on, in place of this one, in the heat of the moment?

What's your reason for going back to posting without raising what happened back in your "Is it okay to be me" thread before with anyone? I'm thinking it's the fairer more respectful thing for me to do to ask you for your explanation, rather than my continuing to make guesses about it.

Have you managed to work anything out, during your recent break away, strategy wise, to minimise chances of the same emotional management problems causing communication difficulties recurring in future?

Emma no disrespect but I'm not going back there.

I plan on getting free from moderation.  I cant do that if I don't post. 

I will say this much.  You are quite right that I needed to calm down. 

What you missed is this: I have suffered so much that adding more suffering on my emotions is like trying to stack a mountain on a matchstick.

I cant take anymore suffering.  Suicide is good evidence that life can dish out more than a person can bear.  I don't want to cry anymore.

My therapist is going to try EMDR therapy because I expressed my concern that our work had plateued. 

I told her that I'm having difficulty following through with her suggestions, that I couldn't find the switch in my brain to change bad habits (leaving here is a very insignificant suggestion).  She said it may be related to my childhood trauma.  That our long term memories are stored in our brains and that when we try to change habits the information your brain has to make those decisions are messed up.  She said the evidence of this is the memory section lights up when a person is trying to make a decision. 

We start next week.
 

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Chatter / Re: Community
« Last post by Jag on Today at 12:22:35 PM »
Now, back to the concept of community, I’ve been reading a bit and found this which I find interesting on how communities depend on the following to work:
   
Quote
Tolerance – an openness to others; curiosity; perhaps even respect, a willingness to listen and learn (Walzer 1997: 11).
•   Reciprocity – Putnam (2000) describes generalized reciprocity thus: ‘I’ll do this for you now, without expecting anything immediately in return, and perhaps without even knowing you, confident that down the road you or someone else will return the favour’. In the short run there is altruism, in the long run self-interest.
•   Trust – the confident expectation that people, institutions and things will act in a consistent, honest and appropriate way (or more accurately, ‘trustworthiness’ – reliability) is essential if communities are to flourish. Closely linked to norms of reciprocity and networks of civic engagement (Putnam 1993; Coleman 1990), social trust – trust in other people – allows people to cooperate and to develop. Trusting others does not entail us suspending our critical judgment – some people will be worthy of trust, some will not
  this is from a YMCA website http://infed.org/mobi/community/ but it’s a pretty good read.

For the record, these are among the 'attributes' that a mediator emphasizes in the introduction phase of a community mediation event. There's a good reason for that - they are the essence of what makes a community function. These apply to workplaces, neighborhoods, cities, and so on.

Great find velkyn!
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Chatter / Re: Community
« Last post by velkyn on Today at 11:32:58 AM »
Quote from: Emma286 link=top ic=30657.msg722382#msg722382 date=1500802300
What did I say before that made it seem that way to you?
When you repeatedly offer excuses for her behavior and do not hold her accountable for her behavior.  When you claim you understand why she is doing what she is doing, but do not hold her accountable and don’t point where she is wrong, IMO this does nothing and it makes it seem that you buy into the victim claim.  I do know that sometimes you have pointed out how she is wrong, but in my observation that is not a consistent action on your part.   I do think your last post asking JB some direct questions is a really great way to approach things. 

JB took a tantrum and then realized that she didn’t want to leave.  However, her attempts to  ignore her actions helps no one, especially her.  Yep, she may be embarrassed, but hoping no one calls her on it and trying to bury the feeling doesn’t work.  As she knows, and as you know, such tactics are not generally accepted here.  It’s not okay to treat forum members badly and then refuse to acknowledge what one did.  She has to take responsibility for that as anyone would be expected too.
 
I get that you always want to see the best in others.  While that is usually a great attitude, and a good addition to a community, it can be a way to refuse to deal with people as they are. 

I think it is pertinent that you mentioned the “is it okay to be me “ thread.  We now are an a thread that has her asking about community and making an assumption that a community always “has” your back.  What is missing from this is that a community may support you but does not have to, and in many ways shouldn’t, always accept people as they are with no question.  None of us are perfect and we all can use a little help, be it straightening out some kinks on how we view the world, getting corrected on false beliefs etc. 

I think it would be a very good think if JB did answer me directly but she has chosen to take a tantrum and block my posts.  This is another indication that she doesn’t seem ready to accept this forum for what it is and to deal with her problems.  I agree, you can’t truly answer for her and one of the reasons is that you are the person I indicated above, when your assumptions color your views for some of the best reasons.  Unfortunately that honest, if perhaps naïve acceptance, makes you vulnerable for manipulation.  You want to help like any humane person wants to, but in this case, I think JB needs to speak for herself.   
I can understand that JB has troubles but she can also make efforts to control herself and to get help.  I also know that those with what appears to be a severe mental illness are very very hard to deal with when it comes to admitting that they need help. Your point that JB acts differently at different times when it seems that she is in a certain phase is one of the things that makes me wonder about just how accountable she should be held.  Sometimes it seems that she uses the claim of uncontrollability to try to control us.   This is what I meant when I said calculated.   

I agree that it can be a dangerous thing to come to a conclusion about behavior, however that is a danger that comes with context that can validate or invalidate a conclusion.  IF someone has been acting a certain way for years, the conclusion that one comes to ends up being supported by repeated examples.  When something quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and swims like a duck, it’s likely a duck.  Now, considering this: do you expect someone who has behaved as she has to clearly say what she expects from people?  To reference back to the OP, clear communications within a community are really important. 
I’m not sure whether you mean you do not disagree on my points or you do not want to discuss those points about JB’s actions.  Either way is fine
I know you won’t share the PMs content, and rightly so, but your posts have indicated that you were not pleased on how you were treated, and I did not mean to indicate all PMs or comments if you think I did so.
Fine. By this point I am feeling like I've highly had enough of this conversation anyway, especially after that last pm reply you sent me. Again, that's all the appreciation I get for showing I gave a fuck? Apparently for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with me either. I've had enough Junebug. I've lost count of the amount of times I've taken times out of my day to be supportive/helpful to you, and (like others here) get unappreciative responses on a repeated basis.
However, if you wish to indicate that wasn’t what you meant, that is okay.  It’s hard to know exactly emotions on a written medium and I may have made an assumption that was not warranted.  If so, I do apologize.   

I know you said you appreciate why I have come to the conclusions I’ve made about JB’s behavior.  If I can ask for a clarification: does this mean you understand why I have or that you accept that I have but you do not agree?

Now, back to the concept of community, I’ve been reading a bit and found this which I find interesting on how communities depend on the following to work:
   
Quote
Tolerance – an openness to others; curiosity; perhaps even respect, a willingness to listen and learn (Walzer 1997: 11).
•   Reciprocity – Putnam (2000) describes generalized reciprocity thus: ‘I’ll do this for you now, without expecting anything immediately in return, and perhaps without even knowing you, confident that down the road you or someone else will return the favour’. In the short run there is altruism, in the long run self-interest.
•   Trust – the confident expectation that people, institutions and things will act in a consistent, honest and appropriate way (or more accurately, ‘trustworthiness’ – reliability) is essential if communities are to flourish. Closely linked to norms of reciprocity and networks of civic engagement (Putnam 1993; Coleman 1990), social trust – trust in other people – allows people to cooperate and to develop. Trusting others does not entail us suspending our critical judgment – some people will be worthy of trust, some will not
  this is from a YMCA website http://infed.org/mobi/community/ but it’s a pretty good read. 
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Whenever my grandmother was properly incensed about things she would write a long letter outlining her grievances then put it away for a day. She would re-read it the next day. 9 times out of 10 she would burn the letter. The other times, she would normally rewrite it to make it more congenial and coherent.

On these forums it may be more difficult for some people to walk away from a debate or argument or discussion because it feels like it's more immediate and urgent to get a point across in the heat of the moment.

I walked away from the Female Dr. Who discussion the other day because I was drunk and getting worked up...not with anyone here in particular but because I was talking to people here about something I feel passionate about...that is where I was starting to vent my frustrations.

Looking back over it the next day, what I said didn't make a whole lot of sense in the context of the conversation because I was lashing out at phantoms. I didn't go back and expand or explain because I wasn't sure what point I thought I was trying to make and I wasn't really trying to argue against anyone in particular. If I had stayed up longer or had another drink I might have said some things worthy of an apology. As it stood, I think it's clear that I was just flailing my arms around randomly in hopes of hitting a windmill or something.

Drunk and looking for a fight. Heaven forbid if someone had come online at that moment to give me a real target. I might have thoroughly embarrassed myself.

Sorry to hear that's how things were with you in that thread Mr Blackwell. I realised some disagreement was going on, but didn't have a clue about that!

Can appreciate how over doing the alcohol can get aggression going. It's certainly one of those substances that can easily get one extra fired up if too much is consumed!
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Evolution & Creationism / Re: Creationism Is Not Science
« Last post by wheels5894 on Today at 09:57:20 AM »
If Creation is true, then there are testable predictions that follow.


Genesis says that god made all the animals as they are now (subject to some dog and other animal breeding we have done since.) Noah took on the Ark 2 or 7 of each kind[1] so we ought to to be able to say, with some confidence that, there ought not to be an fossils found that show a creature from, say, fish, becoming another kind, say amphibian or reptile. After all, fish[2] this god guy made all the fish and all the land animals and that would include all the amphibians and reptiles.


So it is a problem for creation if even one transition is found. So let's welcome to the scene
Tiktaalik roseae a halfway house from fish to amphibian. Of course this is not the only species that we have come across that fits across the various species showing transition but it only take one example of such a transition to wreck creation whose prediction is that all the animals were created at once and that evolution is false. Tiktaalik shows creation's prediction is false and  that evolution is much more likely, based on this one fossil.
 1. Who knows what a 'kind' is? It is a nebulous concept so I am going to consider only the major groups of vertebrates and not get bogged down in which animals are kinds.
 2. Anyone any idea how they could have survived the flood in which salt water and fresh water fish would, in all likelihood, have all died as the salinity of water changed.
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Aside from the obvious - that religions don't want to pay tax - are there any good reasons why they should avoid tax?


Here in the UK there are various sorts of charities, mostly for helping out people (medical, the poor, children) and some for sustaining the countryside or particular buildings but the promotion of the worship of a god or gods automatically gets charitable status. Apparently this is due to the positive influence religion brings to society. However, these days places of worship are used by less than 20% of the population with over 50% saying that they have no religion.


It seems to me we should either allow all formally registered clubs to be tax exempt (why should bridge club pay tax but a Christian club not?) or no one should be able to claim exemption though, in the case of many British churches  would suggest the property taxes on old churches[1] ought not to be charged.


Have any theists any comments on this?
 1. there are loads dating well back into the Middle Ages for example
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Chatter / Re: Community
« Last post by Emma286 on Today at 04:51:36 AM »
Junebug,

Regarding what you said before on your therapist instructing you to leave here, what happened there then? You mentioned that some while back, but since haven't mentioned any more on this. Why did you decide (apparently anyways) not to follow this advice?

Going by the recent applaud you gave me, I take it that you didn't truly mean what you said about seeking out another forum to post on, in place of this one, in the heat of the moment?

What's your reason for going back to posting without raising what happened back in your "Is it okay to be me" thread before with anyone? I'm thinking it's the fairer more respectful thing for me to do to ask you for your explanation, rather than my continuing to make guesses about it.

Have you managed to work anything out, during your recent break away, strategy wise, to minimise chances of the same emotional management problems causing communication difficulties recurring in future?
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