Author Topic: A few other questions  (Read 3339 times)

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Offline DisdainDavid

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2009, 02:10:18 PM »
We're not responding to his questions huh?  When I hear that for theists I always wonder if it isn't so much willful ignorance of responses as it is they have a set answer they expected and only want to hear that, and no other.  You know "ask question a=> receive response b=>counter point c"  but instead they get "ask question a=>receive response x=> error:does not compute."
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Offline Omen

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2009, 02:15:46 PM »
We're not responding to his questions huh?  When I hear that for theists I always wonder if it isn't so much willful ignorance of responses as it is they have a set answer they expected and only want to hear that, and no other.  You know "ask question a=> receive response b=>counter point c"  but instead they get "ask question a=>receive response x=> error:does not compute."

I think the problem is that you don't play along with the script or you don't do what the atheist on the 'how to proselytize to atheist' video does and immediately fall on his knees to praise Yawheh the one true God!

They can't go any farther then the scripted material they read from, the apologetic only accounts for making up any rationalization conceivable not for actually defending that rationalization/justification as applicable to meaningful belief.

What bothers me the most is that association with scientific claims as if showing that scientific claim X or Y is true or false, has some bearing on a god existing or not.  They build up these incredible falsehoods surrounding a scientific claim hinging all their beliefs upon it to the point where they can't accept any criticism.  Pointing out that they just lied about a scientific subject is the equivalent of disproving their god, they don't have the mental capacity to consider any other option.
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Offline Count Iblis

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2009, 02:30:07 PM »
What's your proof that the "Christian God" does not exist?

According to Jesus all things are possible with God. According to Judges 1:19 God was unable to help Joshua defeat the Canaanites because they had chariots of iron. The Christian God is internally inconsistent and therefore cannot exist.

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- If God/Higher power does not exist, how did we get here? please don't respond with "you're assuming that God exist."

My parents had sex. How did you get here?

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- How are you 100%, 60%, 30%, or 1% sure you are right?

I'm 100% sure that the Christian God doesn't exist (any of the several million versions of him). I'm 100-e% sure my parents had sex, where e is an arbitrarily small number greater than zero.

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- Where does Jesus fit into the equation?

Jesus is a fictional character. He's an allegory for the nation of Israel/Judah.

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-What is an Atheist? And how is it intelligent to be one?

An Atheist is one who lacks positive belief in any god or gods. An Atheist could be an Atheist because it's a chair and chairs don't have any beliefs. An Atheist could be an Atheist because he/she was never exposed to religion as a child. Other Atheists become Atheists after intelligently analyzing the relevant and available evidence. No doubt there are many other reasons why Atheists are Atheists. I don't think intelligence is a factor. There are plenty of intelligent Christians. Heck, you'd have to be smart to invent some of their rationalizations.

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-What does it mean to be an Agnostic? And does it make sense to accept Agnostic beliefs?

An Agnostic is someone who thinks it's impossible to know whether god or gods exist.

In a sense this is correct because it's impossible to know anything with absolute certainty (e.g. my perception of the universe might simply be an illusion created by some demon). If we're going to require absolute certainty before using the word "know" then we should remove "know" from the dictionary and ban its use. By any useful definition of the word "know" then I think it is possible to know whether gods exist.

Religion is an act of sedition against reason.--P.Z. Myers

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Offline Count Iblis

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2009, 02:31:26 PM »
According to who's online he's sending a message.Brace yourself Omen.

Yah, he just responded to tell me that not only is no one answering his questions but that we are all arrogant for admitting we do not know and we do not believe.

Well I just answered all his questions, so we'll see if he responds.
Religion is an act of sedition against reason.--P.Z. Myers

To find out more about the Evil Atheist Conspiracy visit http://www.atheistthinktank.net/

you know, hell is going to be so jammed full of lying Christians that I fear I will never get in.  --velkyn

Offline tperl

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2009, 03:06:58 PM »
Yah, he just responded to tell me that not only is no one answering his questions but that we are all arrogant for admitting we do not know and we do not believe.

We are arrogant for admitting that we don't know something?  How's that work?
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Offline screwtape

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2009, 03:18:57 PM »
The consensus is; the only reason I don't believe in God is because no one has prove to me the God exist. But no one can prove that he doesn't on here. I see more evidence for God on here then evidence for God not existing. Sheesh.

Help me out.  How would someone go about proving a god does not exist?  Demonstrate how that would work with say, Hel, the Norse goddess of the dead.

Wait.  Let's try something easier.  Prove to me I do not own a dog.  It should be easy, since I do not actually own a dog.  But for the sake of argument, let's say I believe I do. Go ahead.  Prove I do not own a dog.  What sort of evidence would you expect?
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Offline Ashe

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2009, 03:21:01 PM »
Your quotes are all screwed up here so I'll do my best to figure out what you're trying to say.

I never said prove that the Christians God does not exist. Please excuse the language; But I was told by an older gentlemen when you Assume you make an a-- of u and me.

What?
The OP states: What's your proof that the "Christian God" does not exist?

What am I misunderstanding here? If it asks, "What's your proof that the 'Christian God' does not exist?" and I ask, "Why must I prove such a thing?" and you're telling me not to make assumptions...what was I assuming?


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No problem, but give me five credible answers. That you believe . . .

Answers that I believe? Then I stick with "I don't know."

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How sure are you that "He"  . . . If God doesn't exist, why did you call God a He? Now How sure are you that he doesn't exist. I got confuse on something that doesn't exist having a gender.

I call it a "he" because that is culturally acceptable where I'm from. Is that a problem? You sure like to split hairs.

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False; What you believe contribute to your knowledge. My students believe I understand math; therefore when I teach they listen. Agnostics believe we can't know God.

Okay, I think I see where you're coming from (if I do, I also believe you're mistaken). So let's make sure we understand the context of the word we're using before we move forward with anything else.

Agnostics believe that you cannot know for certain whether a God exists.

Do you agree?
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2009, 03:47:54 PM »

Based on Second of thermodynamics and the fact the universe is expanding I would look at a younger earth. If it were as old as science books say . . . it would have exploded by now.

So, you would rather agree with the ancient myths of one culture than accept the many years of accumulated peer-reviewed, cross-checked, research of hundreds of people from all over the world of different religous backgrounds? Why would the vast majority of scientists say that the earth is 4.6 billion years old if the evidence did not support that? Do they have such a deep-seated irrational prejudice against religion that they are willing to put their names on stuff that they know is not true? :?

When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline reality_chek

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2009, 04:34:41 PM »
Hey Guys I be back another day it was fun talking to you all. Hopefully you will use reason and not denial to support what you believe.

Offline DisdainDavid

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2009, 04:37:01 PM »
Hey Guys I be back another day it was fun talking to you all. Hopefully you will use reason and not denial to support what you believe.

And hopefully you'll actually answer the questions that have been asked of you and point out where it is you think we didn't answer yours.
I will stop to contribute in this thread until some one shows up and seem to have brain. -- Master

It's a shame how you put your trust in theories that keep on changing. Bible has stayed the same for thousands of years [. . .]  -- Skylark889

Offline jazzman

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2009, 05:27:40 PM »
What's your proof that the "Christian God" does not exist?
Nonbelievers in the Christian God bear no burden of proof, unless they make a positive assertion that God does not exist.  Simple nonbelief doesn't qualify as making that assertion.

The burden of proof lies on the person who makes the positive assertion for something, such as "God exists."

- If God/Higher power does not exist, how did we get here? please don't respond with "you're assuming that God exist."
If "we" means "humans," we got here by means of a natural process that we call evolution.  The process began some 4.5 billion years ago and continues today. 

The Christian God does not need to exist for there to be a "higher power."  The Christian idea of God begins as the specific idea of God of the ancient Israelites, evolving into the God of the early Christian Jews, followed by the God of the ancient non-Jewish Christians, and into the God that Christians worship today.  It may be that a higher creative power exists, but not in any sense of the Christian God.  That God may well be imaginary.

- How are you 100%, 60%, 30%, or 1% sure you are right?
I'm 100 percent certain that I'm right in questioning the existence of the Christian God, and all other specific gods that humans have worshipped and worship today.  None of these ideas of deities are based in verifiable facts about gods.  I'm 100 percent certain I'm right in allowing for the possibility that a "higher power" exists about which we know absolutely nothing.  I'm also 100 percent certain I'm right to accept that there is no universal consensus on what God is.  Until we all work from exactly the same definition, I can issue no verdict on whether a deity exists.

- Where does Jesus fit into the equation?
As a character in a collection of books.  As the central figure in one of the world's most popular religions, and as a prophet in one of the world's most popular religions.

-What is an Atheist?
One who is not a theist.

And how is it intelligent to be one?
Atheists come in a range of intelligences, just as do theists.

-What does it mean to be an Agnostic?
It means to not know enough to be certain either way.  Regarding God, it means a person doesn't have enough information to know if God exists, or doesn't. 

And does it make sense to accept Agnostic beliefs?
  Agnosticism relates to knowledge, not beliefs.

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Offline Emily

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2009, 06:16:53 PM »
Hey Guys I be back another day it was fun talking to you all. Hopefully you will use reason and not denial to support what you believe.

Hopefully you're come back ready to back up some of the things you claim. Such as...


Once again you assumed I was a Christian.

Based on Second of thermodynamics and the fact the universe is expanding I would look at a younger earth. If it were as old as science books say . . . it would have exploded by now.

Because this is a very bold claim you're making. How about backing it up.

Also, perhaps when you return you'll actually read over the answers that some people have given you, like the posts by Disdain, Omen, Ashe, Count, Jazz, and everyone else who DID answer your questions. You just seem to willfully ignorant to actually accept their replies. The overall consensus is that you're asking us to prove something that we don't think exists. I might as well prove to you that the monster in my closet doesn't exist since there are no monsters. The bottom line: We can't prove a negative. However, you're the one claiming,

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Now I can give you both evidence for and against God, but since no one else will prove his non-existence I can't believe. At least theist have answers and research the believe. I'm about to find some religion.

Yeah, I'm sure this research and these answers are just littered with lies and misinformation. Just like the page that you plagiarized one of your posts from[1][2]. Omen did point out to you what's wrong with that page. In case you forget, here it is again;

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Edit: The website you copy pasted contains dozens of errors with regards to basic science, astronomy, strawman arguments about atheism, misrepresents thermodynamics, and a series of non-sequitirs.  Why should I take you or it seriously at all?  Why does it have to misrepresent modern science or the position of non-belief in a god or gods, in order to first make an argument for a god?  What does this tell me a non-believer, whenever someone attempts to argue for a god.. that they frequently begin by making false assertions about entirely unrelated subjects?
 1. http://www.doesgodexist.org/Pamphlets/Mansproof.html
 2. BTW: You've shown yourself to be a plagiarist twice already, and you only made 7 posts on this board

Bottom line: When you come back, you'd better be able to actually listen to the replies that are given to you and apply original though to what you have to say against them.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 06:18:53 PM by Emily »
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Offline Omen

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2009, 06:18:01 PM »
Hey Guys I be back another day it was fun talking to you all. Hopefully you will use reason and not denial to support what you believe.

What denial? Where? What are you talking about? Where have you responded to anyone to answer their questions? Where have you responded to anyone to acknowledge what was said?
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Offline DI

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2009, 07:20:04 PM »
Based on Second of thermodynamics and the fact the universe is expanding I would look at a younger earth. If it were as old as science books say . . . it would have exploded by now.

welcome to the 21st century. just get in?
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Offline Astreja

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2009, 08:18:40 PM »
What's your proof that the "Christian God" does not exist?

Judging from its actions in the Bible (creating things and then destroying them in a hissy-fit; ordering the Israelites to annihilate neighbouring tribes while commanding them "Thou shalt not kill"; and requiring a human sacrifice before it could forgive people for the behaviour of their ancestors), I think Yahweh is simply too vicious and stupid and unstable to be anything more than a character in a book -- A book with some alarming continuity problems.

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If God/Higher power does not exist, how did we get here?

An aggregation of biochemical compounds into complex organisms over billions of years.

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How are you 100%, 60%, 30%, or 1% sure you are right?

I place the probability of me being right at 99.999... percent.

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Where does Jesus fit into the equation?

I think the character of Jesus is fictional.  The events were probably based on one or more itinerant rabbis or mystics who ran afoul of the occupying Roman forces; most of the humanistic sayings attributed to Jesus appear to have been plagiarized from earlier philosophers such as Hillel the Elder.  Whatever the origins of the Jesus story, all the people who contributed to the story are long dead, not parked in a celestial paradise somewhere.

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What is an Atheist? And how is it intelligent to be one?

An atheist is someone who lacks belief in gods.  If there is no credible empirical evidence for the existence of gods, I see no reason that someone should pretend to believe in them.

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What does it mean to be an Agnostic? And does it make sense to accept Agnostic beliefs?

Agnosticism is a statement on whether or not it is possible to know the truth about something.  I do not think that it is currently possible to prove that something is actually a god, because we are not in a position to falsify claims to godhood made by god-like beings more advanced than ourselves.

I am an agnostic atheist humanist and a cultural Ásatrúar who sometimes practices Buddhist mindfulness meditation.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: A few other questions
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2009, 07:19:01 AM »
Hey Guys I be back another day it was fun talking to you all. Hopefully you will use reason and not denial to support what you believe.

So you are not going to explain this?
Based on Second of thermodynamics and the fact the universe is expanding I would look at a younger earth. If it were as old as science books say . . . it would have exploded by now.

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.