Author Topic: Absolutely "must see" movie!  (Read 6889 times)

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Offline Divon

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Absolutely "must see" movie!
« on: August 15, 2009, 07:38:17 AM »
I stumbled across a great find on the 'lifetime' channel the other night. I caught the last 15-20 minutes of "Prayers for Bobby", a true story about a gay teen that was brought up in a holy roller family. The boy would try to open up to his mother, only to have her scream leviticus quotes and such at him. I found the link on you tube and watched it, luckily alone, because I never had so many tears since I was a child. I have the dvd ordered, but it was hard to find because it is not offically released yet. I would never ask people to watch something that I didn't think was exceptional and this one is.
This is a link to the trailer, please don't just blow this one off, it's just too good!



The mother, Sigourney Weaver, slowly comes to realize her beliefs led to her sons death and finally opens her eyes to reality. (all you tough guys, watch it alone!)

This is a link to the first part of the entire movie on youtube.


This is a quick breakdown of the story;
Mary Griffith: Everyday Hero
Ex-evangelical Christian Mary Griffith overcame the suicide of her son Bobby and became an outspoken advocate for gay rights.
By Dale Hrabi
You don’t see a lot of statues commemorating reformed homophobes, but Mary Griffith arguably merits one. An ex-evangelical Christian who, by her own admission, helped shame her gay son, Bobby, into suicide in 1983, she’s spent the rest of her life trying to save other kids from the hurtful lunacy she inflicted on him in the name of God. Her story, known to millions who’ve read Prayers for Bobby-- journalist Leroy Aaron’s unflinching 1995 account -- has inspired a Middle-America-friendly film starring Sigourney Weaver that airs on Lifetime Television January 24.

“I think the movie comes very close to what happened,” says Griffith, now 74, a disarmingly straightforward woman who’s still atoning for the years she spent “trapped” in robotic bigotry, briskly insisting that Bobby resist Satan the way other moms urge their kids to brush their teeth, while willfully ignoring his collapsing self-esteem. “Sigourney really expresses how assured I was that God would heal Bobby,” she says, “as if it were a slam dunk, how afraid I was…and how I felt when I realized that nothing was wrong with Bobby [after his death].”

Born into a large family of holy rollers in 1934, Griffith was an insecure, supposedly slow child whose own mother nicknamed her “Lamebrain.” The imminent threat of damnation was a popular dinner-table topic, and Griffith once dreamt that the Almighty’s gargantuan, grasping hand was chasing her. After some pretty average teenage “sinning” led to a run-in with the law, Griffith grew convinced she was Godless, and fully succumbed to the fundamentalist extremism that would contribute to her own son’s death.

“I don’t particularly like to look back. I don’t like who I was,” says Griffith, who still lives in the Walnut Creek, California home in which she raised her three surviving children. “It’s humiliating just to go through the Bible and see the fairy tales I believed, like that business about mixing fabrics.” (The Tim-Gunnish dictate from Deut. 22:11 -- “Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together” -- that restricted her sewing projects).

Bobby tried to open her mind by giving her books about homosexuality, Griffith says: “But anything that would uplift Bobby and made me see him as a decent person…was viewed as evil [by her church].” It took his suicide, she says, to make her realize that she’d been using religion to avoid thinking through life’s complexities for herself. “I felt like I was born again,” she says. “I was free to read again. I was free to think again.”

In a remarkable conversion, this shy and unworldly woman renounced her faith and went on to become the president of an East San Francisco Bay PFLAG chapter, and a nationally known gay activist and speaker, urging other parents to listen to their children, not the Christian Right’s theatrical scare tactics: “Satan is a convenient way to keep the troops in line,” she says, “like the bogeyman. Fear works pretty good.” Luckily, for the many parents who’ve benefited from Griffith’s cautionary tale, brutal honesty works even better.   
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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2009, 08:04:53 AM »
....thanks for the heads up Divon.

I read the story outline you posted, ....remarkable turn around, sad knowledge (drove her son to suicide over the xian fairytale) but she's been atoning ever since.

I'll bookmark for less busy moment.   
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Offline jetson

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2009, 08:47:03 AM »
I was moved by the trailer.  Thanks for the heads up, I will watch this movie...

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2009, 08:57:01 AM »
Ever heard of John Shelby Spong? He is a minister that used to debate Jerry Falwell on the tube. Here is what he says in his weekly Question and Answer:

Anderson from Duluth, Minnesota, writes:

I've heard of pastors in our area who tell lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people that "they can change if they turn to Jesus." What can you say to this?

Dear Gary,

What do you say to people who maintain that the earth is flat or that the moon is made of cheese? Ignorance abounds in our world and the statement you quote is profoundly ignorant. There is not a shred of medical or scientific evidence that sexual orientation, which is clearly one of life's givens, is capable of being changed. For clergy persons or anyone else to allow their prejudices to blind them to reality means that they are simply out-of-touch, religious bigots. Perhaps a lawsuit by a victim of such "pastoral counseling" would be in order, to warn clergy and anyone else functioning as a counselor that, prior to dispensing medical advice, they need to be medically trained and certified by some appropriate federal or state agency. No one in our society has the right to practice medicine without a license, not even in the name of religion.

It is worth noting that those organizations that claim to be able to change homosexuals into heterosexuals are all identified with right-wing religious movements. They also refuse to let their data be analyzed and they have a dreadful track record for failure. More importantly they victimize those who become their "patients" for their own financial gain, since they normally collect fees for their services, which are, of course, paid by their victims. This is little more than racketeering under the protection of religion. Racketeering and fraud are crimes that need to be exposed wherever they appear. Trying to cure people of homosexuality is both homophobic ignorance and fraud. I hope you and others will expose these practices for what they are.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2009, 10:54:41 AM »
The movie is available for $3.99 from iTunes for those interested.

Offline Cumulo Nimbus

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2009, 07:23:01 AM »
I saw it, and it's really really good!
I like watching LifeTime movies anyway so when this one premiered it was a real treat.
Had me bawlin' like a baby at the end.

I highly recommend to everyone to give this a watch.

Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2009, 03:21:09 AM »
bookmarked
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2009, 06:38:35 AM »
I stumbled across a great find on the 'lifetime' channel the other night. I caught the last 15-20 minutes of "Prayers for Bobby", a true story about a gay teen that was brought up in a holy roller family. The boy would try to open up to his mother, only to have her scream leviticus quotes and such at him. I found the link on you tube and watched it, luckily alone, because I never had so many tears since I was a child. I have the dvd ordered, but it was hard to find because it is not offically released yet. I would never ask people to watch something that I didn't think was exceptional and this one is.
This is a link to the trailer, please don't just blow this one off, it's just too good!



The mother, Sigourney Weaver, slowly comes to realize her beliefs led to her sons death and finally opens her eyes to reality. (all you tough guys, watch it alone!)

This is a link to the first part of the entire movie on youtube.


This is a quick breakdown of the story;
Mary Griffith: Everyday Hero
Ex-evangelical Christian Mary Griffith overcame the suicide of her son Bobby and became an outspoken advocate for gay rights.
By Dale Hrabi
You don’t see a lot of statues commemorating reformed homophobes, but Mary Griffith arguably merits one. An ex-evangelical Christian who, by her own admission, helped shame her gay son, Bobby, into suicide in 1983, she’s spent the rest of her life trying to save other kids from the hurtful lunacy she inflicted on him in the name of God. Her story, known to millions who’ve read Prayers for Bobby-- journalist Leroy Aaron’s unflinching 1995 account -- has inspired a Middle-America-friendly film starring Sigourney Weaver that airs on Lifetime Television January 24.

“I think the movie comes very close to what happened,” says Griffith, now 74, a disarmingly straightforward woman who’s still atoning for the years she spent “trapped” in robotic bigotry, briskly insisting that Bobby resist Satan the way other moms urge their kids to brush their teeth, while willfully ignoring his collapsing self-esteem. “Sigourney really expresses how assured I was that God would heal Bobby,” she says, “as if it were a slam dunk, how afraid I was…and how I felt when I realized that nothing was wrong with Bobby [after his death].”

Born into a large family of holy rollers in 1934, Griffith was an insecure, supposedly slow child whose own mother nicknamed her “Lamebrain.” The imminent threat of damnation was a popular dinner-table topic, and Griffith once dreamt that the Almighty’s gargantuan, grasping hand was chasing her. After some pretty average teenage “sinning” led to a run-in with the law, Griffith grew convinced she was Godless, and fully succumbed to the fundamentalist extremism that would contribute to her own son’s death.

“I don’t particularly like to look back. I don’t like who I was,” says Griffith, who still lives in the Walnut Creek, California home in which she raised her three surviving children. “It’s humiliating just to go through the Bible and see the fairy tales I believed, like that business about mixing fabrics.” (The Tim-Gunnish dictate from Deut. 22:11 -- “Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together” -- that restricted her sewing projects).

Bobby tried to open her mind by giving her books about homosexuality, Griffith says: “But anything that would uplift Bobby and made me see him as a decent person…was viewed as evil [by her church].” It took his suicide, she says, to make her realize that she’d been using religion to avoid thinking through life’s complexities for herself. “I felt like I was born again,” she says. “I was free to read again. I was free to think again.”

In a remarkable conversion, this shy and unworldly woman renounced her faith and went on to become the president of an East San Francisco Bay PFLAG chapter, and a nationally known gay activist and speaker, urging other parents to listen to their children, not the Christian Right’s theatrical scare tactics: “Satan is a convenient way to keep the troops in line,” she says, “like the bogeyman. Fear works pretty good.” Luckily, for the many parents who’ve benefited from Griffith’s cautionary tale, brutal honesty works even better.   


Sounds like a good movie for a high school church youth group. 

Thanks.

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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2009, 07:12:20 AM »
This sounds like a good film, I might save this one for a movie night.
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Offline Red McWilliams

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2009, 08:19:06 AM »
Damn you for making me watch that trailer!
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Offline Agent40

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 08:17:50 AM »
I have not seen this movie, but I saw some trailer for it on tv awhile ago. I don’t know if the whole movie was like this, but the trailer did not present the view that homosexual acts are wrong fairly. The part I saw simply showed the mother as a fanatical Christian spouting scripture passages and telling her son how evil he was.  I realize supposedly this movie was based on a true story and perhaps that is the way that particular mother acted.

But I hardly think she is a fair sample of others who believe engaging in homosexual acts are wrong. A good parent should be able to profess the truth while simultaneously showing love and support to their child. Homosexual acts are not simply wrong because the Bible says they are wrong. Homosexual acts are a violation of nature. The immorality of homosexual acts can be argued via natural law arguments. I have no intention however, on turning this thread into an arguing the immorality of homosexual acts. I merely wanted to point out that I feel this movie was probably pretty one-sided.

And if you believe there is nothing wrong with homosexual acts, then it probably made you feel good to watch it. Since it depicted your side so favorably and depicted the other side as ignorant fools. However, I wouldn’t feel too good about your position, as this movie was obviously a pro-gay propaganda piece with an agenda. 

If the mother did react the way the movie showed, then I guess I could understand why the boy would have killed himself and why the mother blamed herself. However, what about all the homosexuals who freely go on to live their homosexual lifestyles and still feel depressed and suicidal when they realize such a lifestyle did not give them the peace and happiness they hoped for? And what about all the homosexuals who commit suicide because they are unhappy and unfulfilled in their lives? Statistically, don’t homosexuals have a higher rate of drug/alcohol abuse, abusive relationships, and suicide?

Where is the Life Time movie showing that story?

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 09:30:27 AM »

Agent40

........... homophobic ignorant arrogant imbecile.

You are the first poster on this site that I have found myself truly loathing.

I can see you've just freshly pulled your head out, as your still spraying sloppy shit with every word.
Please don't give us anymore insight into how that scabrous rancid turd you call a mind works.
I don't have a clue as to whether you are a christian, atheist, or by humanist rankings whether you even warrant calling human.

I suspect you are the most basic of human types. A canker-souled twisted little selfrighteous foulheart chaser of petty victories.

Please reinsert that stinking head of yours and go and choke on your bile somewhere else.


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all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Seppuku

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 09:51:10 AM »
Agent 40, whilst homosexuality isn't natural in the sense you can't reproduce via homosexual sex, but the sexual attraction occurs naturally and I can't see how you can argue that the act is immoral, after all, who does homosexuality hurt? I know people who claim that homosexuals hurt family values and 'encourage' kids to that lifestyle, but that's ignorant rubbish because a heterosexual isn't going to become a homosexual because Graham's parents are gay, if Graham was seemingly a heterosexual and turned around and says, "I am gay", then it's because he's learned where his sexuality is, not because of his parents.

Nor is homosexuality the demonstration of sex, even if gay pride parades display that, but I suppose shock and a strong public image is a means of getting a point across. If we condemn homosexuality, then we are going to get people who are ashamed of their emotions, ashamed of liking those who are of the same sex and even without a pushy mother like Siggorny Weaver's character played, push themselves towards suicide. That's where gay pride comes in again, as it also says to people, "if you're gay, don't be afraid to admit it, because there are people out there who'll support you". But the act doesn't hurt anyone if all parties consent to it, so why should it be considered imoral and since when has 'unnatural' ever bothered anybody? You're typing on a freaking computer over the internet and that's completely unnatural!

And homosexual healing is actually repression of motions and displacement...'curing' homosexuality is actually quite unnatural and potentially dangerous to mental health, even it it's not noticeable. Repression can eventually surface and it can happen via an abnormality like some types of neuroses. Or at least that's what my understanding of psycho-analytical psychology tells me.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 09:58:36 AM »

Agent40

........... homophobic ignorant arrogant imbecile.

You are the first poster on this site that I have found myself truly loathing.

I can see you've just freshly pulled your head out, as your still spraying sloppy shit with every word.
Please don't give us anymore insight into how that scabrous rancid turd you call a mind works.
I don't have a clue as to whether you are a christian, atheist, or by humanist rankings whether you even warrant calling human.

I suspect you are the most basic of human types. A canker-souled twisted little selfrighteous foulheart chaser of petty victories.

Please reinsert that stinking head of yours and go and choke on your bile somewhere else.




You're a mean one, Agent40.
You really are a heel.
You're as cuddly as a cactus,
You're as charming as an eel.
Agent40.


You're a bad banana
With a greasy black peel.


You're a monster, Agent40.
Your heart's an empty hole.
Your brain is full of spiders,
You've got garlic in your soul.
Agent40.


I wouldn't touch you, with a
thirty-nine-and-a-half foot pole.


You're a vile one, Agent40.
You have termites in your smile.
You have all the tender sweetness
Of a seasick crocodile.
Agent40.


Given the choice between the two of you
I'd take the seasick crockodile.


You're a foul one, Agent40.
You're a nasty, wasty skunk.
Your heart is full of unwashed socks
Your soul is full of gunk.
Agent40.


The three words that best describe you,
are, and I quote: "Stink. Stank. Stunk."


You're a rotter, Agent40.
You're the king of sinful sots.
Your heart's a dead tomato splot
With moldy purple spots,
Agent40.


Your soul is an apalling dump heap overflowing
with the most disgraceful assortment of deplorable
rubbish imaginable,
Mangled up in tangled up knots.


You nauseate me, Agent40.
With a nauseaus super-naus.
You're a crooked jerky jockey
And you drive a crooked horse.
Agent40.


You're a three decker saurkraut and toadstool
sandwich
With arsenic sauce.
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Offline Red McWilliams

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 10:09:42 AM »
I merely wanted to point out that I feel this movie was probably pretty one-sided.

Do you think?  I mean, the movie was about ONE family, right?  It wasn't about the entire homosexual community, was it?  Wow, imagine that a story about ONE SPECIFIC FAMILY was one-sided.  Weird.
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Offline Red McWilliams

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2009, 10:14:39 AM »
However, what about all the homosexuals who freely go on to live their homosexual lifestyles and still feel depressed and suicidal when they realize such a lifestyle did not give them the peace and happiness they hoped for?

How many homosexuals like that are there?  You do realize that there are tons of heterosexuals who feel depressed and suicidal because their 'lifestyle' did not give them peace and happiness, don't you?  Is the number of homosexuals like this more than the number of heterosexuals like this?

Quote
And what about all the homosexuals who commit suicide because they are unhappy and unfulfilled in their lives?

What about all the heterosexuals who commit suicide because they are unhappy and unfulfilled in their lives?

Quote
Statistically, don’t homosexuals have a higher rate of drug/alcohol abuse, abusive relationships, and suicide?

Do they?  And is it solely being homosexual that causes this?  Are there other factors that might lead them to these destructive ends?

Oh wait, you're going to say that even though abusive parents were the reason they killed themselves, it's still the homosexuals fault because they could have chosen to not be gay and then their parents wouldn't have abused them.
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Offline tperl

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2009, 10:59:27 AM »
but the trailer did not present the view that homosexual acts are wrong fairly.

Is there really a fair way to present the view that homosexual acts are wrong?

I think you meant "the trailer did not present the  my view that homosexual acts are wrong fairly"

So do you only watch movies that share your specific views?

Quote
this movie was obviously a pro-gay propaganda piece with an agenda.  

And your little post here was what, exactly?

Quote
Where is the Life Time movie showing that story?

Maybe ION?
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Offline Ananukia

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2009, 12:25:56 PM »
I'm guessing the OP is a female, or a homosexual, because as a self respecting man, I will not watch lifetime, or oxygen.


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Offline Agent40

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2009, 12:58:30 PM »
Quote
Agent40

........... homophobic ignorant arrogant imbecile.

Quote
You're a mean one, Agent40.
You really are a heel.
You're as cuddly as a cactus,
You're as charming as an eel.
Agent40.

The typical responses I expected. Since you have no way to prove you are right and I am wrong regarding homosexual acts, you resort to personal attacks – shocker!

Offline Agent40

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2009, 01:01:59 PM »
Quote
Agent 40, whilst homosexuality isn't natural in the sense you can't reproduce via homosexual sex, but the sexual attraction occurs naturally and I can't see how you can argue that the act is immoral,


I’m not arguing “natural” in the sense you imply. Uugh! I have been thru this on so many other threads, I really don’t have the time to explain Natural Law to you. Feel free to google it. It does not mean natural in the way of that which is not artificial (meaning computers are unnatural). And it does not mean natural in the way natural is always good. Pedophiles are “naturally” attracted to children. This however does not make their feelings good.




Quote
that's ignorant rubbish because a heterosexual isn't going to become a homosexual because Graham's parents are gay

I agree. That would be rubbish and is not what I have argued or would ever argue. I’m not even saying a homosexual can help the feelings they have. This is irrelevant. One could argue some people are born with violent tempers, some people are born with a pre disposition to alcoholism, some people are born with a stronger libido and hence more drawn to promiscuity. I’m not saying it is the person’s fault. It also, however, isn’t an excuse to engage in behavior that is immoral. 



Quote
If we condemn homosexuality, then we are going to get people who are ashamed of their emotions,


I’m not talking about condemning people at all. I’m talking about condemning immoral behavior. If you tell a pedophile he can’t act on his emotions, are you condemning him?



Quote
"if you're gay, don't be afraid to admit it, because there are people out there who'll support you".

I couldn’t agree more with this statement. A person should not be afraid to admit they are having same-sex attractions. There are wonderful groups out there like Courage that might actually be able to help them.


 
Quote
But the act doesn't hurt anyone if all parties consent to it

That’s an illogical statement. There are a great many things that can hurt someone whether they consent or not.


Quote
And homosexual healing is actually repression of motions and displacement...'curing' homosexuality is actually quite unnatural and potentially dangerous to mental health, even it it's not noticeable. Repression can eventually surface and it can happen via an abnormality like some types of neuroses. Or at least that's what my understanding of psycho-analytical psychology tells me.


Yes, there is a great deal of current psychobabble out there. Let’s see, didn’t psychologists of the 60’s/70’s tell us to do away with personal responsibility? “I’m ok. You’re ok.” “If it feels good. It is good.” “Follow your heart.” What if your heart tells you to screw your married next door neighbor? What if it feels good to have sex with your student? If you’re a drug dealer is it still ok to say, “I’m ok. You’re ok.”?

Current psychology also tells us if you’re ok with the decision then it is right for you. This includes if you decide to murder the baby in your womb because nows not really a good time for you to allow this other human being to live.

Current psychology tells us pornography is harmless and can be a great stress release.

Current psychology tells us there is nothing wrong with pre-marital sex as long as you practice “safe sex”.

Anyway, you get the point. So forgive me if I don’t consider the current psychological trend regarding homosexual acts to be based on any truth.   


Offline Agent40

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2009, 01:06:19 PM »
Quote
I mean, the movie was about ONE family, right?  It wasn't about the entire homosexual community, was it?  Wow, imagine that a story about ONE SPECIFIC FAMILY was one-sided.  Weird.

True. If you read my post, I acknowledged this fact. My point was, please do not assume that mother was an accurate representation of most Christians. And don’t deceive yourself that simply because you watched a movie telling you something you wanted to hear, it makes it true.


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Is there really a fair way to present the view that homosexual acts are wrong?

Certainly. 

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I think you meant "the trailer did not present   my view that homosexual acts are wrong "

The movie could have presented logical, reasonable arguments as to why many believe homosexual acts are wrong. The movie could have better shown the love the mother had for her son. The movie could have gone beyond stereotypical assumptions.


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So do you only watch movies that share your specific views?

Hee, hee. That would mean I would have only watched a handful of movies my entire life.

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this movie was obviously a pro-gay propaganda piece with an agenda. 

And your little post here was what, exactly?

I’m just trying to point out that it’s easy to surround yourself with others who think like you and thus convince yourself something is true, when in fact it is not.

Offline Seppuku

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2009, 02:31:07 PM »
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I’m not arguing “natural” in the sense you imply. Uugh! I have been thru this on so many other threads, I really don’t have the time to explain Natural Law to you. Feel free to google it. It does not mean natural in the way of that which is not artificial (meaning computers are unnatural). And it does not mean natural in the way natural is always good. Pedophiles are “naturally” attracted to children. This however does not make their feelings good.

I remember being taught Aquinas' Natural Law and looked up a few others, from my understanding, there's nothing anti-homosexual, you won't even need to explain natural law to me, just how homosexuality is morally wrong.

[edit]

My bad, I remember that Aquinas said to apply the bible after natural law, and the bible says to murder homosexuals, Leviticus 20:13.

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I agree. That would be rubbish and is not what I have argued or would ever argue. I’m not even saying a homosexual can help the feelings they have. This is irrelevant. One could argue some people are born with violent tempers, some people are born with a pre disposition to alcoholism, some people are born with a stronger libido and hence more drawn to promiscuity. I’m not saying it is the person’s fault. It also, however, isn’t an excuse to engage in behavior that is immoral.

I'm glad you're not going to argue that one. Violent tempers, alcoholism etc. are things which are harmful, if a person is prone to alcoholism, then they must be helped so that it does not bring them to harm. What danger is homosexuality?

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I’m not talking about condemning people at all. I’m talking about condemning immoral behavior. If you tell a pedophile he can’t act on his emotions, are you condemning him?

Not am I, I am talking about 'homosexuality', not the homosexual. Comparing a homosexual to a pedophile isn't right, the act of a pedophile and the act of a homosexual are not comparable. Why? For a start those who pedos like are below the age of consent, they are considered not old enough to be able to decide whether or not they want to have sex and of course haven't necessarily matured. The act of a pedophile is also considered as 'child rape'. Homosexuals aren't raping each other. The act between homosexuals (if we're not talking about homosexual pedophiles) is that all parties are able to consent and do. But again the homosexual is doing harm, whereas the pedophile is and I am sure anybody who finds they're sexually attracted to child, yet wish not to act upon it are ashamed, but it is only right that we prevent pedophiles, though perhaps more compassion could be given for those who wish no harm upon anybody. If we condemn the act of homosexuality, then it's still going to give a judgmental attitude towards the homosexual, that what's natural for them is morally wrong.

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That’s an illogical statement. There are a great many things that can hurt someone whether they consent or not.

How is it illogical? I am referring to the act itself, not any act where you can give 'consent', I mean the 2 of us could give consent to throw knives at each other, but that's not what I was saying. Is it really that dangerous to be a homosexual? If you're going to talk about diseases, then there's plenty in heterosexual activities.

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Anyway, you get the point. So forgive me if I don’t consider the current psychological trend regarding homosexual acts to be based on any truth.

This is based on the psychology that if you repress your emotions, then they'll surface one way or another, this psychology has been around since the days of Freud and is generally applicable. If you repress anything is generally accepted that it's likely to do you harm if it builds up. Repression has been known to cause psychological abnormalities like schizophrenia, though it can be anger, depression or even fear. Repression can be emotions and memories. When you visit the psychiatrist, you may find that the things you've repressed surfacing from your unconscious mind but not in unnatural ways...sometimes people learn that they're homosexuals this way as well. This isn't some psychology of recent years that comes with the time, but something that is practiced and shown to be true through practice. Repressing your homosexual emotions isn't curing you of anything, it's more likely to do you harm.

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Current psychology tells us pornography is harmless and can be a great stress release.

How is it harmful? You don't necessarily objectify women through it - in fact there are many couples that watch porn together. I've not heard of any other arguments as to why 'porn' is harmful...well except maybe the 'God' argument, but as an atheist it's impossible to apply.

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Current psychology tells us there is nothing wrong with pre-marital sex as long as you practice “safe sex”.

I'd imagine psychology tells us that it's not 'harmful', after all it's 'safe' sex, but I doubt that psychology says 'there's nothing wrong' with it, because typically psychology is not a science that determines what it 'moral', personally I don't see anything 'immoral' about pre-marital sex. I can't even see where marriage would fall under 'natural law' as it's a social thing. However, I'd probably loose my virginity with somebody special or after marriage. (I'm not a 40-year old virgin, I'm only 20, so no jokes please.  ;D) But I don't view it as 'immoral' to do it before marriage.

As for the other example, I have not heard of it, though it sounds more like something a hippy would say rather than a credible psychologist.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 03:36:26 PM by Seppuku »
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Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2009, 02:42:01 PM »
I have not seen this movie, but I saw some trailer for it on tv awhile ago. I don’t know if the whole movie was like this, but the trailer did not present the view that homosexual acts are wrong fairly. The part I saw simply showed the mother as a fanatical Christian spouting scripture passages and telling her son how evil he was.  I realize supposedly this movie was based on a true story and perhaps that is the way that particular mother acted.
Why agent 40, you slithered out of the bottomless pit? And still spreading lies.  You do serve a a great example of what a Christian often is.  Just watch a Phelps demonstration to see fanatical Christains spouting scripture and hating people for what they are. 
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But I hardly think she is a fair sample of others who believe engaging in homosexual acts are wrong. A good parent should be able to profess the truth while simultaneously showing love and support to their child. Homosexual acts are not simply wrong because the Bible says they are wrong. Homosexual acts are a violation of nature. The immorality of homosexual acts can be argued via natural law arguments. I have no intention however, on turning this thread into an arguing the immorality of homosexual acts. I merely wanted to point out that I feel this movie was probably pretty one-sided.

There is nothing truthful about claiming that a god with no evidence of existence will damn your child.  You make baseless claims as usual.  No, they are not violations of nature.  You have been asked to define natural law and it always comes out "what I think God wants".

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And if you believe there is nothing wrong with homosexual acts, then it probably made you feel good to watch it. Since it depicted your side so favorably and depicted the other side as ignorant fools. However, I wouldn’t feel too good about your position, as this movie was obviously a pro-gay propaganda piece with an agenda. 

And it made you feel like you needed to claim that homosexual acts are "unnatural".  You have an agenda too, dear, thata of the Roman Catholic Church.  And just how do you now it was "propaganda"?  Please go on, tell us.
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If the mother did react the way the movie showed, then I guess I could understand why the boy would have killed himself and why the mother blamed herself. However, what about all the homosexuals who freely go on to live their homosexual lifestyles and still feel depressed and suicidal when they realize such a lifestyle did not give them the peace and happiness they hoped for? And what about all the homosexuals who commit suicide because they are unhappy and unfulfilled in their lives? Statistically, don’t homosexuals have a higher rate of drug/alcohol abuse, abusive relationships, and suicide?
If?  The movie is based on a true story, a story that many here know to be common.  Where is the evidence that homosexuality is any different from hetrosexuality in the disappointment with life department?  What of all of the heterosexuals who commit suicide?  So cute when you try to ask an "innocent question", provide the evidence, DO homosexuals have a higher rate of abuse and suicide?  Can this be traced to being considered pariahs by ignorant hateful people like you and the harm you cause? 
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Where is the Life Time movie showing that story?
They don't show propaganda and lies if they can help it, it seems. 

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2009, 03:00:52 PM »
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Agent40

........... homophobic ignorant arrogant imbecile.

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You're a mean one, Agent40.
You really are a heel.
You're as cuddly as a cactus,
You're as charming as an eel.
Agent40.

The typical responses I expected. Since you have no way to prove you are right and I am wrong regarding homosexual acts, you resort to personal attacks – shocker!


No, silly robot.  I just understand that trying to talk reason to you is like trying teach history to my toilet.  Beyond the obvious similarities between you and a toilet, the effort I would put into either endeavor would be wasted.

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Offline tperl

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2009, 03:51:51 PM »
I find it amusing that agent40 is so vehemently arguing about how a movie is depicting things while he freely admitted up front to NOT having seen the movie (only the trailer).

Also interesting is that this same scenario is played out often in this forum, only instead of a movie they haven't seen, a Christian is talking about a Bible they haven't read!  (but perhaps they once saw the trailer for Passion of The Christ!)  :D
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Offline Divon

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2009, 03:59:58 PM »
I have not seen this movie, but I saw some trailer for it on tv awhile ago. I don’t know if the whole movie was like this, but the trailer did not present the view that homosexual acts are wrong fairly. The part I saw simply showed the mother as a fanatical Christian spouting scripture passages and telling her son how evil he was.  I realize supposedly this movie was based on a true story and perhaps that is the way that particular mother acted.

But I hardly think she is a fair sample of others who believe engaging in homosexual acts are wrong. A good parent should be able to profess the truth while simultaneously showing love and support to their child. Homosexual acts are not simply wrong because the Bible says they are wrong. Homosexual acts are a violation of nature. The immorality of homosexual acts can be argued via natural law arguments. I have no intention however, on turning this thread into an arguing the immorality of homosexual acts. I merely wanted to point out that I feel this movie was probably pretty one-sided.

And if you believe there is nothing wrong with homosexual acts, then it probably made you feel good to watch it. Since it depicted your side so favorably and depicted the other side as ignorant fools. However, I wouldn’t feel too good about your position, as this movie was obviously a pro-gay propaganda piece with an agenda.  

If the mother did react the way the movie showed, then I guess I could understand why the boy would have killed himself and why the mother blamed herself. However, what about all the homosexuals who freely go on to live their homosexual lifestyles and still feel depressed and suicidal when they realize such a lifestyle did not give them the peace and happiness they hoped for? And what about all the homosexuals who commit suicide because they are unhappy and unfulfilled in their lives? Statistically, don’t homosexuals have a higher rate of drug/alcohol abuse, abusive relationships, and suicide?

Where is the Life Time movie showing that story?


Agent40, are you serious? You didn't see the movie, but you stated it "probably" was one sided? I see thumper logic throughout your reply. No, I am not a woman and I'm not gay. The closest gay person I know is a good friend's brother that I couldn't pick out of a line-up. His parents are devout Christians and are 'sort of' accepting his gayness. I gave the straight brother a DVD of it to watch and share with his parents tonight.
  Agent40, here's a little story that you can share with your devout friends about the way agnostics feel about gayness. A naive girl that I know was married at 17 and quickly found her husband to be an abusive drunk. She was divorced at 19 and was a lifetime member of a Pentecostal church. About 15 years after her divorce her church was in need of a piano player and she played well and volunteered. One woman on the church board voted against the girl playing piano for the church because she was divorced at one time. I thought the woman was an idiot. Soon after the woman that wouldn't allow a divorced member of her church to play piano, she found out her fifteen year old daughter was pregnant. I'll admit I smiled a bit. About five years later the woman found out her son was gay and I about split my sides laughing. (Is there really a God with a sense of humor?)

Again, this is the youtube link for the movie.

I don't impress easily, but this movie is emotionally moving beyond words. In almost every youtube reply, the word tears is present.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 04:07:32 PM by Divon »
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Offline Red McWilliams

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2009, 10:24:12 PM »
True. If you read my post, I acknowledged this fact.

It didn't appear that way to me.

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My point was, please do not assume that mother was an accurate representation of most Christians.

Why would I?  I'm not a close-minded, ignorant bigot.

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And don’t deceive yourself that simply because you watched a movie telling you something you wanted to hear, it makes it true.

And what was it that I wanted to hear?  That close-minded, ignorant, bigoted parents can drive their homosexual children to commit suicide?  I don't need Sigourney Weaver to tell me that.

I'll also note that you skipped the meat of my post, the part about depression and suicide and the like.  I know you've got a lot of responses to deal with, but if you had a minute or two to respond to me, I'd rather you respond to the parts that are actually asking things of you.
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2009, 06:22:54 AM »
However, what about all the homosexuals who freely go on to live their homosexual lifestyles and still feel depressed and suicidal when they realize such a lifestyle did not give them the peace and happiness they hoped for? And what about all the homosexuals who commit suicide because they are unhappy and unfulfilled in their lives? Statistically, don’t homosexuals have a higher rate of drug/alcohol abuse, abusive relationships, and suicide?

Interesting questions.  They imply some thoughtful research.  What are the sources for the questions?

As always,

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Offline Divon

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Re: Absolutely "must see" movie!
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2009, 06:33:29 AM »
My wife's parents are very strict thumpers. My wife's dad told her that if any of his five children told him they were gay, he would disown them--figures, the more religious, the more illogical.
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While macroevolution theory makes absolutely no scientific sense whatsoever, ever noticed how hard it is to persuade a nonbeliever using the finest of logic? IMO, that's because surrounding the nonbeliever are spiritual "forces and principalities" that warp his ability to think