Author Topic: God [#1689]  (Read 263 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DL

God [#1689]
« on: August 08, 2009, 02:56:37 PM »

I've been watching a few of your videos, and I feel the need to address you in accordance to your claims and understanding. I would first like to say that I'm not here to argue with you, but I would very much appreciate a mutual debate (or conversation) worded kindly and rationally. I will respect you, and only hope I have such respect returned.

Your one video stated matters of what 'Christianity.com' says on it's site. You've quoted from them that God apparently answers prayers with a yes, no, or 'wait'. Not only is such a thing false, but any Christian completely foolish and ignorant. God is not so simple to be in the comprehension of man. You have by all right to hold your views in the scope of what Christianity is, but I would ask you to allow me to represent myself, and not align me with a site which feels it has the right to represent and speak for all Christians. I'm more than positive that if you've read the Bible, you would find NO such statement.

Your other video approaches the matters of science. In no way to insult or poke fun of you, but being a person who so strongly believes in science himself, I believe you're not of full understand as to what exactly science is. Science has always been. Without science, the universe cannot exist. It was never put in place by man, but was in fact simply discovered in use by man. It's as simple as throwing a rock, and watching it fall. Suddenly you then realize at that moment that something in this universe is in play. Science suddenly comes to an understanding as it slowly presents itself to you. It has always been there, man has only discovered it's existence. Now, having stated this, I would like to remind you that there ARE laws to science. Science does in fact make it so that EVERYTHING must have an origin. But if everything must have an origin, how does this happen to make God exempt from this law? Read on...

The same video stated that science has no equation for God. I would also like to mention that science has no equation for the soul, spirit, or even consciousness either. According to science, we should be no different than robots that move only by response to our senses, acting with nothing more than instinct. Why is this? Why do we think and have consciousness? This also relates to God. There is a reason science has no understand of anything relating to the spirit or soul of man. God is above science, seeing as He is the creator of it. It should only make sense that our spirits are only in similarity. We have been made in the likeness of God, as so said by the Bible.

One last thing to mention...
If you believe that man has a soul, then you must, by default, give the possibility for there to be a God in existence, just by the mere belief in something supernatural, something that is not bound by the laws of science. If you do NOT believe in the soul of man, then you subject yourself to the entire law of science, meaning you should not have consciousness. Do not contradict yourself...

I hope you respond appropriately, and soon if able. Thank you for your time.

Offline Seank

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Typos are intentional, honest.
Re: God [#1689]
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2009, 04:36:56 PM »
I've been watching a few of your videos, and I feel the need to address you in accordance to your claims and understanding. I would first like to say that I'm not here to argue with you, but I would very much appreciate a mutual debate (or conversation) worded kindly and rationally. I will respect you, and only hope I have such respect returned.

It'd be worth signing-up for the forum. Although the author of the site may not participate, you'll find some very articulate and well-versed people willing to debate with you.

Quote
Your one video stated matters of what 'Christianity.com' says on it's site. You've quoted from them that God apparently answers prayers with a yes, no, or 'wait'. Not only is such a thing false, but any Christian completely foolish and ignorant. God is not so simple to be in the comprehension of man. You have by all right to hold your views in the scope of what Christianity is, but I would ask you to allow me to represent myself, and not align me with a site which feels it has the right to represent and speak for all Christians. I'm more than positive that if you've read the Bible, you would find NO such statement.

Accepting that God is beyond human comprehension would mean that every religion must be considered pure guess-work. Scripture becomes totally unreliable, since how could any of the authors possible have understood what they were writing about?

Quote
Your other video approaches the matters of science. In no way to insult or poke fun of you, but being a person who so strongly believes in science himself, I believe you're not of full understand as to what exactly science is. Science has always been. Without science, the universe cannot exist. It was never put in place by man, but was in fact simply discovered in use by man. It's as simple as throwing a rock, and watching it fall. Suddenly you then realize at that moment that something in this universe is in play. Science suddenly comes to an understanding as it slowly presents itself to you. It has always been there, man has only discovered it's existence. Now, having stated this, I would like to remind you that there ARE laws to science. Science does in fact make it so that EVERYTHING must have an origin. But if everything must have an origin, how does this happen to make God exempt from this law? Read on...

I think you are misunderstanding science. Science as a discipline has not always existed. Throwing a rock is not science unless we apply scientific principles to understanding why the rock behaves as it does. What you're describing would be like saying that pi has existed as long as circles have.

Quote
The same video stated that science has no equation for God. I would also like to mention that science has no equation for the soul, spirit, or even consciousness either. According to science, we should be no different than robots that move only by response to our senses, acting with nothing more than instinct. Why is this? Why do we think and have consciousness? This also relates to God. There is a reason science has no understand of anything relating to the spirit or soul of man. God is above science, seeing as He is the creator of it. It should only make sense that our spirits are only in similarity. We have been made in the likeness of God, as so said by the Bible.

There's no evidence for the existence of souls or spirits. The argument you made with regards science, souls and God could apply to just about anything imaginary. The reason why physics can't explain why pegasus can fly is because pegasus exists but is beyond science.

Quote
If you believe that man has a soul, then you must, by default, give the possibility for there to be a God in existence, just by the mere belief in something supernatural, something that is not bound by the laws of science. If you do NOT believe in the soul of man, then you subject yourself to the entire law of science, meaning you should not have consciousness. Do not contradict yourself...

I don't understand this. Where was it said men have souls?
"I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam"
Popeye (the sailor man)

Offline Hermes

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9988
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • 1600 years of oppression ends; Zeus is worshiped.
Re: God [#1689]
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2009, 05:00:36 PM »
I've been watching a few of your videos, and I feel the need to address you in accordance to your claims and understanding. I would first like to say that I'm not here to argue with you, but I would very much appreciate a mutual debate (or conversation) worded kindly and rationally. I will respect you, and only hope I have such respect returned.

I did not make the videos or the web site.

That said, if you want to come to the forums, I will treat you cordially as long as you are cordial yourself.  With that, I expect that you will deal with facts and evidence, admit where you do not know something, and demand the same from others.

Respect, though, is earned.  I do not grant it without a good reason and neither do I casually accept it from others.  Someone who does not know me that says they respect me is as suspicious to me as someone who calls me 'friend' or 'brother' where being friendly is more appropriate.

Things that reduce respect are assertions without support, or comments that show the person is not interested in any investigation of easily available information.  I do respect appropriate -- not fawning -- humility as well as appropriate arrogance, but mainly someone who sticks to informed comments and is able to not demand the parties in the conversation be caricatures.

Your one video stated matters of what 'Christianity.com' says on it's site. You've quoted from them that God apparently answers prayers with a yes, no, or 'wait'. Not only is such a thing false, but any Christian completely foolish and ignorant. God is not so simple to be in the comprehension of man. You have by all right to hold your views in the scope of what Christianity is, but I would ask you to allow me to represent myself, and not align me with a site which feels it has the right to represent and speak for all Christians. I'm more than positive that if you've read the Bible, you would find NO such statement.

OK.  Feel free to say what you believe and why you believe it.

If I do not see comments by Christians that they are being misrepresented by other Christians or Christian groups, how am I to know what Christians at large believe let alone claim knowledge of?

We're not mind readers.

Your other video approaches the matters of science. In no way to insult or poke fun of you, but being a person who so strongly believes in science himself, I believe you're not of full understand as to what exactly science is. Science has always been. Without science, the universe cannot exist. It was never put in place by man, but was in fact simply discovered in use by man. It's as simple as throwing a rock, and watching it fall. Suddenly you then realize at that moment that something in this universe is in play. Science suddenly comes to an understanding as it slowly presents itself to you. It has always been there, man has only discovered it's existence. Now, having stated this, I would like to remind you that there ARE laws to science. Science does in fact make it so that EVERYTHING must have an origin. But if everything must have an origin, how does this happen to make God exempt from this law? Read on...

Science describes, it does not proscribe.  That's why many conclusions made in the sciences are tentative and not strident or dogmatic.  Along with that, the sciences are a set of tool boxes like many others we humans have developed.  They do not exist beyond that, though if the descriptions are accurate enough the same basic descriptions would be 'discovered' by others given enough time and interest.

The same video stated that science has no equation for God. I would also like to mention that science has no equation for the soul, spirit, or even consciousness either. According to science, we should be no different than robots that move only by response to our senses, acting with nothing more than instinct. Why is this? Why do we think and have consciousness? This also relates to God. There is a reason science has no understand of anything relating to the spirit or soul of man. God is above science, seeing as He is the creator of it. It should only make sense that our spirits are only in similarity. We have been made in the likeness of God, as so said by the Bible.

Why the focus on science?  Much of the videos don't even mention it.

As for spirits and souls, there are none beyond what emerges from bodies and the environments they are placed in.  Why do I say that?  I looked;

No souls, no way to get to an afterlife
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=6546

One last thing to mention...
If you believe that man has a soul, then you must, by default, give the possibility for there to be a God in existence, just by the mere belief in something supernatural, something that is not bound by the laws of science. If you do NOT believe in the soul of man, then you subject yourself to the entire law of science, meaning you should not have consciousness. Do not contradict yourself...

One does not follow the other.  If you disagree, you need to make your case more clearly and backed by supporting evidence.

I hope you respond appropriately, and soon if able. Thank you for your time.

If you come here, be prepared to be overwhelmed.

A very strong recommendation: If you do come to the forums here, narrow your focus to one or two issues and be prepared to address any and all comments and questions on those.  Do not get sidetracked on other issues that may come up if they are not required to address those comments and questions as they relate to the one or two issues you are interested in.  This does not mean you can not be bold.  By all means, be bold.  Yet, be prepared to deal with what comes next.  One way to do that is to use the Search function of the forums to see if others have brought up the issue or issues you intend to.  With the results of that search, you can see what others have said and where they may have information or answers that you are not aware of.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: God [#1689]
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2009, 12:51:06 PM »

Your one video stated matters of what 'Christianity.com' says on it's site. You've quoted from them that God apparently answers prayers with a yes, no, or 'wait'. Not only is such a thing false, but any Christian completely foolish and ignorant. God is not so simple to be in the comprehension of man. You have by all right to hold your views in the scope of what Christianity is, but I would ask you to allow me to represent myself, and not align me with a site which feels it has the right to represent and speak for all Christians. I'm more than positive that if you've read the Bible, you would find NO such statement.

that's true.  only modern Christians have come up with those excuses for their God that does nothing.  Your bible actually does say that God will response to prayers quickly and positively. In that your God doesn't do anything like that, this is a reason to thinkn that God doesn't exist as described in the bible and to doubt the bible's claims about anything.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline MrFriday

  • 100% Superstition Free
  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1522
  • Darwins +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • To Question God
Re: God [#1689]
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 10:18:30 AM »
If you believe that man has a soul, then you must, by default, give the possibility for there to be a God in existence, just by the mere belief in something supernatural, something that is not bound by the laws of science.
First of all, this is a non-sequitur. Even if you believe in some kind of mystical, invisible component of a human body that is a distinct thing unto itself with a life of its own, it does not automatically follow that a deity is any more likely than without it. If you think so, you may have a severe lack of imagination.

Second, the entire idea of there being something called "supernatural" is patently absurd. Nature is what exists. There is no way for something to be outside of nature. There is only nature that we know about and nature that we have not yet discovered or perhaps may not be able to perceive currently due to the limitations of our senses or some such thing. But everything that exists is part of nature - the nature of the universe. Everything has its own properties but existence is not a property. In reality there is no such thing as magic, spirit realms, super powers or whatever you think about spirits and gods. That is the stuff of fantasy. There is that which exists and that which does not. So talking about a "supernatural" spirit or god is nonsense from the get go.

If you do NOT believe in the soul of man, then you subject yourself to the entire law of science, meaning you should not have consciousness. Do not contradict yourself...
This is a strawman argument apparently based on your limited understanding of science. Nothing in science precludes consciousness. The complexity that can come from evolution is amazing, isn't it? Why do you think creatures cannot evolve that have consciousness? Religion represents itself as an explanation for the existence of consciousness. But if you think consciousness can exist outside a physical entity, I think you need to show some evidence for that. And finally, science does not have the answer to everything and probably never will. But it is good that science isn’t stagnant like religion. The body of scientific knowledge is always growing. Religions claim to have the answer to everything. That should be your first clue that it is all made up. The second clue should be that it is stuck in ancient superstitious myths.
"Faith is believing in something you know isn't true" - Mark Twain