Author Topic: Thank God?  (Read 2338 times)

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2009, 07:36:45 AM »
The chap I sit next to is quite a committed Christian - church on Sundays, church fundraising, and so on.  And he says "God" or "Jesus" far more than I do.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
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Offline Codswallop

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2009, 08:08:44 AM »
The chap I sit next to is quite a committed Christian - church on Sundays, church fundraising, and so on.  And he says "God" or "Jesus" far more than I do.

One Christian web site I looked at just now puts it rather well. The third comandment (Ex. 20:7) "forbids us to pronounce the holy Name of God without reverence, and forbids any trivial mention of God in superficial conversation." The verse makes a unique specification in this regard: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." (Italics mine.)

It is widely held that the original intent was to enforce contracts, which would have been sworn with an oath. I find this persuasive, but limited. Clearly, the ancient Israelites also understood this to mean that one must literally not speak God's four-letter name. There are many Hebrew names for God that you may speak, though none frivolously. And even Hebrew euphemisms for God are not written out except on documents that will be preserved carefully and not mistreated. If even a scrap of paper with a god name on it should become unusable, it must be disposed of in a special place called a genizah, which is a sort of holding area for such documents. Periodically, the genizah is emptied and the documents are buried, usually in the grave of some respected scholar when he dies.

Religious Jews are careful even of the English word "God." They'll substitute a dash for the letter o: "G-d" And when they want to express the sentiment of "thank God," they'll do it in Hebrew by saying baruch ha shem, which means "blessed be the name." They won't actually say the name.

It's punctilious to the point of OCD, but that's what I call obeying a commandment.
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Offline bigdamhero

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2009, 10:04:01 AM »
Whenever I hear people use gods name I always yell out "where"??? and look up, they usually are not impressed, lol! :D


 haha, too few people have seen "orgazmo"
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Offline subtleinspiration

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2009, 11:07:49 AM »
Religious Jews are careful even of the English word "God." They'll substitute a dash for the letter o: "G-d" And when they want to express the sentiment of "thank God," they'll do it in Hebrew by saying baruch ha shem, which means "blessed be the name." They won't actually say the name.

It's punctilious to the point of OCD, but that's what I call obeying a commandment.

Except for the niggling little fact that "God" is not the deity's name. It's YHWH, Jealous, I Am, ect. "God" is simply a generic term that we capitalize the "g" in to specify that we are talking about a specific deity whose name is [see above].

My mom used to get all upset about the use of the word "Lord", considering it blasphemy to use it in conjunction with anything other than her personal deity (i.e. Dark "Lord" of the Sith for Darth Vader, an actual example she used). Again, "Lord" is simply a generic term that designates some kind of authority. It's not the name of the god she has chosen to worship.
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Offline Codswallop

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2009, 11:25:57 AM »
Religious Jews are careful even of the English word "God." They'll substitute a dash for the letter o: "G-d" And when they want to express the sentiment of "thank God," they'll do it in Hebrew by saying baruch ha shem, which means "blessed be the name." They won't actually say the name.

It's punctilious to the point of OCD, but that's what I call obeying a commandment.

Except for the niggling little fact that "God" is not the deity's name. It's YHWH, Jealous, I Am, ect. "God" is simply a generic term that we capitalize the "g" in to specify that we are talking about a specific deity whose name is [see above].

I addressed this, but I'll clarify.

There's only one word you aren't allowed to say: the Hebrew name usually anglicized as YHVH. You can say El, Elohim, Eloheinu and all other derivatives, Ehyeh ("I am," a lousy translation, IMO), Adonai and dozens of others. They are all euphemisms. But the Jewish principle here is to build siyag l'Torah, a fence around the Torah, a margin or of error, a cushion to prevent near misses. They do it in all kinds of things besides this.

Anyway, Jesus would have said "ha Shem" the same as any Jew of his day. It's even more of a euphemism than the word "God." These "God Bless You" people are skating on thin ice, biblically speaking.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 09:06:34 AM by Codswallop »
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2009, 02:26:41 PM »
Religious Jews are careful even of the English word "God." They'll substitute a dash for the letter o: "G-d" And when they want to express the sentiment of "thank God," they'll do it in Hebrew by saying baruch ha shem, which means "blessed be the name." They won't actually say the name.

It's punctilious to the point of OCD, but that's what I call obeying a commandment.

Except for the niggling little fact that "God" is not the deity's name. It's YHWH, Jealous, I Am, ect. "God" is simply a generic term that we capitalize the "g" in to specify that we are talking about a specific deity whose name is [see above].

My mom used to get all upset about the use of the word "Lord", considering it blasphemy to use it in conjunction with anything other than her personal deity (i.e. Dark "Lord" of the Sith for Darth Vader, an actual example she used). Again, "Lord" is simply a generic term that designates some kind of authority. It's not the name of the god she has chosen to worship.

good thing she doesn't live in Great Britain then.  She'd get her panties in a bunch everyday the news came on. 
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Offline mram

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2009, 07:09:04 PM »
Crap..just typed a whole paragraph in all caps.. GODDAMMIT!
 Anywayz..I get a little pissed at people, especially all the holier than though broads who constantly try to correct my speech with :Please don't use the GD word(s) because I use the "GD" words constantly. They act AS IF I am personally insulting their best pal ever and somehow this mythic gawd will go cry somewhere just because I used the "GD" word.. They probably want a new law made so I can be dragged into court for insulting their "personal relationship with gawd"..
Well Gawddernit!
Imagine gaining favor with "Darwin's"...kind of like praying, huh?

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Offline Husky

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2009, 08:21:48 PM »
I understand what you mean entirely but that is kinda the point though. Instead of saying "only god can" why not just say exactly what you meant? By using the term "only god can" you give him credit for something he can't (or won't) actually do, even if it is nothing more than a way to express a sentiment he still gets mentioned for it and that is where the reinforcement comes in. If your intent is to imply true hopelessness the better way to say it is "no one can help you".

I think it is the unconscious things we say that help to keep a thread bound to the superstition. Even if it was not your meaning, it is what you said and what you mean is not near as important as what people actually hear (because they infer their own meaning from it).

Yeah. I know. Kinda like how theists started arguing that Einstein was a christian just because he used the word God in his dictionary.

But I don't think my choice of words actually has the power to influence their beliefs. They have already decided on their faith already and will be quick to grab on to whatever (lame) reasons they can use to support the fragile system.

If I suddenly take out the word God from my dictionary, they will probably end up saying something like, "if you don't believe in God, why are you so scared to evoke his name?"
I believe that you believe your God is real. It's called a DELUSION.

Offline alejo_radical

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2009, 09:24:54 PM »
I only like cursing.

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

Offline essgeeskee

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2009, 02:23:46 AM »
I don't think I do this very much. Never really have.

Quote
I got a lot of people mad at me because we were watching the news in the break room about hurricane Katrina and I said "Thank God" sarcastically.

Were you referencing to the aftermath of Katrina or before it actually did any real damage when you said "Thank God" sarcastically?
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Offline Xero-Kill

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2009, 08:52:48 AM »
I don't think I do this very much. Never really have.

Quote
I got a lot of people mad at me because we were watching the news in the break room about hurricane Katrina and I said "Thank God" sarcastically.

Were you referencing to the aftermath of Katrina or before it actually did any real damage when you said "Thank God" sarcastically?

In fairness, it was in regards to the aftermath, but it was in response to a previous situation.

It started 2 days prior to the hurricane hitting at which time a guy was trying to start up a prayer group for the people that would be hit. When he approached me I made my position perfectly clear, at which time he launched into a full blown conversion attempt. After about 15 minutes of pointless debate I told him to drop it. A few days later I saw his little prayer group sitting in the lounge and mumbling to themselves. As the TV reported higher and higher numbers of casualties and more and more homes destroyed I made the glib remark to the group in question.

I understand that in retrospect it was disrespectful to those that were affected by the hurricane, but the comment was not intended to illustrate their doom, but to point out the futility of asking "god" to help them. These people were sitting there and watching their prayers fail left and right, on live TV and they were still praying to the "glory" of god. So I thanked him for them. I found their response to be puzzling because they were doing the exact same thing for days, I just said it in a way that would expose the hypocrisy of their prayers.

I will also mind you that I made the comment on the way to our C-130 that was bound for New Orleans to render aid (Navy). So while these douche bags were praying, I was boarding a plane to go give them a hand. I felt that if they really wanted to do something for those folks, then maybe giving them a sandwhich or a blanket would be better than a lip service prayer.
"Our fathers were our models for God. If our fathers bailed, what does that tell you about God? You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. This is not the worst thing that can happen."

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Offline snkiesch

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2009, 09:32:29 AM »
I have used jiminey cricket or thanks to Sponge Bob tarter sauce. I think cussing has it's place but not every other word. It has nothing to do with reverence to any god or goddess.
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Offline God indeed is imaginary

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2009, 09:39:03 AM »
Punch the keys for God's sake!

Offline Xero-Kill

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2009, 10:05:50 AM »
I have used jiminey cricket or thanks to Sponge Bob tarter sauce. I think cussing has it's place but not every other word. It has nothing to do with reverence to any god or goddess.

What does cussing have to do with anything? While some cuss words contain divine names, this topic is about the use of divine terms in casual speech. Some examples for clarification:

Thank God!
Oh My God!
Bless you! (sneeze)
Jesus! (excitement)

If a huge explosion took place near to you, you might proclaim "Oh my God, did you just see that!?" The fireball is a fantastic thing, and the FIRST thing we attribute to it is "god" (in the form of identifying as "Oh, my god"). I understand that it is just unconscious banter that people have used for centuries, but it is that very fact that makes it so pervasive, and that is the point of my topic. I don't believe in god, so I don't have a "my god" but despite that fact, I have been saying it for years when it would be just as easy to simply say "Oh my" or "Wow".

"Our fathers were our models for God. If our fathers bailed, what does that tell you about God? You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. This is not the worst thing that can happen."

~Tyler Durden

Offline snkiesch

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2009, 05:08:37 PM »
I see what you are saying, this is about using divine terms in casual speech. My daughter, an agnostic says bless you when people sneeze. I don't. With my upbringing saying jesus, god or holy mother of god when surprised was frowned upon. My godmother, who died in 1984 drank and swore like a sailor. My buddy and me were coming back from fishing and stopped at her house for a few beers on the way back. Everything was going good until my buddy mentioned how big this god damn northern was. The atmosphere changed immediately as my aunt/godmother screamed you do not use the name of my lord in vain. 

I am an atheist to all man made gods but still concider using god's name in vain as cussing.  I do not concider it a sin just not proper language for my grandkids to use so I don't.
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Offline orthodoxXx

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2009, 06:00:12 PM »
in serbian "Thank God" can also mean 'naturally' or 'of course'
understanding can either be a desire or an illusion.

do embryos believe in a life after birth?

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Offline Barracuda

Re: Thank God?
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2009, 10:47:10 PM »
I say god all the time. In the same way theists do, its just how I think/talk instinctively.

And avoiding saying god or jesus because those words are intellectually lazy is intellectually lazy. ;)

Offline natlegend

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2009, 12:49:19 AM »
why not take a leaf from the book of bender? (futurama): "Oh. Your. God." ;D
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline JeR

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2009, 12:57:03 PM »
My favorite is "holy crap".


I don't think I do this very much. Never really have.

Quote
I got a lot of people mad at me because we were watching the news in the break room about hurricane Katrina and I said "Thank God" sarcastically.

Were you referencing to the aftermath of Katrina or before it actually did any real damage when you said "Thank God" sarcastically?

In fairness, it was in regards to the aftermath, but it was in response to a previous situation.

It started 2 days prior to the hurricane hitting at which time a guy was trying to start up a prayer group for the people that would be hit. When he approached me I made my position perfectly clear, at which time he launched into a full blown conversion attempt. After about 15 minutes of pointless debate I told him to drop it. A few days later I saw his little prayer group sitting in the lounge and mumbling to themselves. As the TV reported higher and higher numbers of casualties and more and more homes destroyed I made the glib remark to the group in question.

I understand that in retrospect it was disrespectful to those that were affected by the hurricane, but the comment was not intended to illustrate their doom, but to point out the futility of asking "god" to help them. These people were sitting there and watching their prayers fail left and right, on live TV and they were still praying to the "glory" of god. So I thanked him for them. I found their response to be puzzling because they were doing the exact same thing for days, I just said it in a way that would expose the hypocrisy of their prayers.

I will also mind you that I made the comment on the way to our C-130 that was bound for New Orleans to render aid (Navy). So while these douche bags were praying, I was boarding a plane to go give them a hand. I felt that if they really wanted to do something for those folks, then maybe giving them a sandwhich or a blanket would be better than a lip service prayer.

I think what you did/said was GREAT - I am going to use it in simialar situations.  You did not insult the Katrina victims as they were not there.  You said what you said toward the sheep, and it affected the Katrina sufferers no more than that group's prayers.  Since my deconversion, I find it very insulting when people give god credit for the good stuff - especially when much human effort goes into achieving that good stuff. 

Two days ago I had my wife in the urgent care for pneumonia.  I called one of our babysitters (who is a rabid christian) to tell her we wouldn't need her because of my wife's illness.  She said she would pray for her.  This meant nothing to me beyond the intent to show caring toward my wife. I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true for the christian who said - it's kind of a reflex and easy/lazy way to say I care for and am concerned for your wife.  No less generic and void of meaning when we say "JFC" when we're angry or "My god" when amazed, shocked etc.  Kinda like back in the day when people said they were going to "xerox" something.  Had nothing to do with Xerox.  god is losing his brand, and becoming a generic term.  Thank god.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Thank God?
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2009, 05:42:46 PM »
For me it's nothing but a phrase, anybody hearing me say it knows I'm not 'literally' referring to God and understand that it's a part of the many cliched sayings we like to say. I could say, "by Merlin's beard", but people would look at me funny. But hey, I don't have a problem with using words or even terms that come from ancient mythology, I'll call somebody narcissistic without thinking of Narcissus and I'll thank God with out so much as a thought of the almighty conjuration of an ancient society.

I have never really thought it to be an issue...though sometimes I do say other things like, "thank f***" but then I am not really thanking the sexual acts between 2 organisms (or more). ;)

[edit]
I think I'll add that it's too PC, I mean it's just a phrase, God and Jesus are a myth to us anyway, so what's the threat? I don't feel insecure about being an atheist saying, "thank God", I could say, "thank Zeus" and it'd have the same meaning...except 'thank Zeus' is not the phrase I grew up with and I see no reason to change it because the majority of people in my society are Christian. It is just insignificant.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2009, 09:29:44 AM by Seppuku »
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