Author Topic: The Athiest are right about one thing........Even though i am a Thiest myself  (Read 990 times)

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Offline Sudan

That there is no life after death, We just die and our body elements just spreads out to the earth so we can recreate and nourish the esscence of the environment. We are just a small part of the world just like every other living thing. We are not anything special like a soul or spirit. The universe has greater and greater laws that we can't even imagine or explain, there is a whole lot of things in the world that we dont understand so we have to go on and do best with the knowledge we have. That's part of the Cycle of Life and it only goes one direction. It's the laws of nature and no religion or any other sprituality can change that. Anyways it's all about the one quote that explains it all "One is All and All is One" Everything is Energy and Reality and Matter and more elements from the periodic table and beyond.

From my point of view God Exist because he is the universe and it could be proven through mathematics and physics and science.....He did not create it but always were and was always.....The universe. The universe always existed and had no beginning and end point which bring us to existance through evolution and TIME. Everything must die even stars and galaxies themselves and there must be no continuation of its own like afterlife. We die in order to recreate. We are just particles and atoms of the universe.


Evidence 1. "We must die in order to recreate"....When a animal or human dies it become nuitrents for plants becuase bacteria feeds off of us and feed the plants or when a star dies it gives off energy in space to recreate a new one.
Evidence 2. "We are just atoms of the universe"...The universe expands and expands and expands and expands and never stops.....
Evidence 3. "We are not anything special like soul or spirit".....We are just living things like animals and plants fused up with elements of the earth.
Evidence 4. "God is and was always the universe" .....Sciectific fact: Energy is neither created or destroyed" and "The Universe has no beginnings"
Evidence 5. "No religion or spiritualty can change that"....Religion started off when humans just became modern after evolution and dont even know how they got here in the first place.


are you satisfied?   
 
  
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 08:45:32 PM by Sudan »

Offline RaptorJesus

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Again please provide evidence otherwise this is practically meaningless

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That there is no life after? death, We just die and our body elements just spreads out to the earth so we can recreate and nourish the esscence of the environment. We are just a small part of the world just like every other living thing. We are not anything special like a soul or spirit. The universe has greater and greater laws that we can't even imagine or explain, there is a whole lot of things in the world that we dont understand so we have to go on and do best with the knowledge we have. That's part of the Cycle of Life and it only goes one direction. It's the laws of nature and no religion or any other sprituality can change that. Anyways it's all about the one quote that explains it all "One is All and All is One" Everything is Energy and Reality and Matter and more elements from the periodic table and beyond.

Again provide citations or study quantum physics, astronomy, or anything highly educational
 
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From my point of view God Exist because he is the universe and it could be proven through mathematics and physics and science.....He did not create it but always were and was always.....The universe. The universe always existed and had no beginning and end point which bring us to existance through evolution and TIME.
Again you lack simple evidence for something you cannot see, hear, or smell, and please provide proof of your scientific claims

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Everything must die even stars and galaxies themselves and there must be no continuation of its own like afterlife. We die in order to recreate. We are just particles and atoms of the universe.
Again Evidence , Citation, Proof , Study whats going on at the LHC and learn about the higgs boson before you go any further in your claims

Higgs Boson: http://www.phy.uct.ac.za/courses/phy400w/particle/higgs.htm

« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 08:32:49 PM by RaptorJesus »
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Offline alejo_radical

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Interesting  point of view.. I used to think similarly to you, except for the part about god. Why call it god, and not just leave it as the universe? And why give him a sex, saying "he"? If there is anything that created us, then that "force" or "energy" has no control over itself, therefore it can't be called a god.

Offline Hermes

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That there is no life after death,

To be clear; that is not an atheist view point.  Many religious groups hold similar or identical sentiments, including the Jews of old.  An idea of an afterlife came from nations and societies around the Canaanites, not the Canaanite derived Judaism.

We just die and our body elements just spreads out to the earth so we can recreate and nourish the esscence of the environment. We are just a small part of the world just like every other living thing.

An interesting word, just.  Damned with faint praise.

We are not anything special like a soul or spirit. The universe has greater and greater laws that we can't even imagine or explain, there is a whole lot of things in the world that we dont understand so we have to go on and do best with the knowledge we have. That's part of the Cycle of Life and it only goes one direction. It's the laws of nature and no religion or any other sprituality can change that. Anyways it's all about the one quote that explains it all "One is All and All is One" Everything is Energy and Reality and Matter and more elements from the periodic table and beyond.

Mockery is a dish served with few garnishes, else it is ruined.  This one has too many straw men, or shall I say shiny crystal ones?

are you satisfied?

Of course not.

A dryer assessment is the one I posted here and that makes no wild assumptions, nor demands any assertion to be taken as true;

No souls, no way to get to an afterlife
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=6546

So, from that what do we know for a fact?  That there is no such thing as an incorporeal soul.  As such, death is final.  No need to bring up a list of philosophical axioms that can be torn down later on.  Dealing with what we already know is good enough to reach a conclusion on this topic without overreaching one bit.

It would be good if you addressed the comments of those who have replied to you.  If you do not, the potential value of your words will be adjusted for automatically by one and all.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline plethora

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From my point of view God Exist because he is the universe and it could be proven through mathematics and physics and science.....He did not create it but always were and was always.....The universe.

I've heard so many theists say "god is love" or as you have said "god is the universe". This is just messing with the definition of god.

Words are labels. These labels are given to things or ideas with certain characteristics we agree on. So when I say "pencil", you know exactly what I am talking about. If something already has a label with a meaning, there's no point changing it. For example, I won't say "feather" and then say "a feather is a pencil".

When you use the label "god", this encompasses certain meanings and properties. The christian god is understood to be a an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent incorporeal supreme being which is the creator of the universe, is eternal and necessary.

When you change the definition of god to something else, then it ceases to be the appropriate label. Especially if you change it to something that already has a label.

The universe is everything that exists. Why call it "god"? It already has a label which is "universe".

We don't know for sure if the universe was created or has simply always existed. I think we all agree there is energy in the universe and can be observed by the way it affects the universe. All these things have labels... "energy, matter, dark matter, universe". There is no proof or observable phenomena that indicates there is any intelligence behind the universe and much less a god.

What you are doing is replacing these existing labels with the label "god". There's no point in doing that. If we go around changing the meaning of every word/label there is no way for human beings to effectively communicate.

So "god" is not the universe. The universe is the universe.


Oh and this time... I'd like to see you respond to this thread (not just create a new one) and with a new post (not just editing the opening post). If you want to gain any credibility anyway...


edit: spell check
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 02:44:45 AM by plethora »
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Offline Noman Peopled

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The universe has greater and greater laws that we can't even imagine or explain, there is a whole lot of things in the world that we dont understand so we have to go on and do best with the knowledge we have.That's part of the Cycle of Life and it only goes one direction. It's the laws of nature and no religion or any other sprituality can change that. Anyways it's all about the one quote that explains it all "One is All and All is One" Everything is Energy and Reality and Matter and more elements from the periodic table and beyond.
Please define laws.
I agree that we should go with what we know. Also, strive to increase what we know.
Define "One". Define "All." The phrase sounds nice but without definitions it's meaningles. If I had to take my understanding of the terms that I'd say that no, a photon and the universe are not one.

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From my point of view God Exist because he is the universe and it could be proven through mathematics and physics and science.....
Yeah, except that mathematics and science both state that they haven't, following the same line of reasoning that have made them valid disciplines.

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He did not create it but always were and was always.....The universe. The universe always existed and had no beginning and end point which bring us to existance through evolution and TIME. Everything must die even stars and galaxies themselves and there must be no continuation of its own like afterlife. We die in order to recreate. We are just particles and atoms of the universe.
Which is not what science says. Last I checked th contracting universe was still a possibility. Also, big bang. So sciences disagrees with your attribution of characteristics to god and the universe (or itself, for that matter). Also, science has this neat thing called entropy which states that it doesn't really matter to us if the universe is eternal or not.
Also, we do not die "in order to" anything. We just die and bacteria and fungi eat us. There is no intent or sense there. The rock does not fall in order to hit the ground. It just falls, than hits the ground.
Galaxies and stars cannot die except in a metaphorical sense. I wouldn't nitpick usually, but if you want to be scientific, be scientific. Oh, and no, the circle of life (even metaphorically) will not go on forever. Stars will run out of hydrogen. Mass will be concentrated in black holes. Background energy will be uniform, making any kind of life impossible. We would call it static if it wouldn't continue to stretch - or collapse back. That's not what I say. That's what the science you claim to advocate says.

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Evidence 1. "We must die in order to recreate"....When a animal or human dies it become nuitrents for plants becuase bacteria feeds off of us and feed the plants or when a star dies it gives off energy in space to recreate a new one.
That's not evidence, that's just a description, even if it is apt, of one aspect of the universe.
Actually, scratch that. Stars are formed by gravitational force out of material available. They also convert it into radiation and higher elements. While energy is conserved, some matter is lost, and some matter is transformed into other matter that can't fuel stars.
Radiation doesn't just condense back into hydrogen.
Matter and radiation alike falling into a massive black star are lost to the circle.
So now, stars will not shine forever.

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Evidence 2. "We are just atoms of the universe"...The universe expands and expands and expands and expands and never stops.....
The first statement is a poetic one and evidence of nothing.
The second one is not necessarily condoned by science. Some models suggest it, some don't. You seem to have picked on that suited you.

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Evidence 3. "We are not anything special like soul or spirit".....We are just living things like animals and plants fused up with elements of the earth.
We are not living things fused up with anything. We are lumps of matter, and thus contain elements that are also within the earth.
Again, a basic statement, true but useless as evidence.

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Evidence 4. "God is and was always the universe" .....Sciectific fact: Energy is neither created or destroyed" and "The Universe has no beginnings"
Neither of those is a fact. The first statement is regarded as a fact but it is merely a human concept that does not necessarily apply under all circumstances. The second is just hogwash. Science doesn't claim to understand the beginning of the universe or the "initial" source of energy, but it clearly states that the universe has not been around forever.
Unless you count the hypothesis that the universe will at some point contract again and blow up again and contract again as fact ... but that's incompatible with one of your earlier statements as well as the rules of the scientific discipline you claim to quote.

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Evidence 5. "No religion or spiritualty can change that"....Religion started off when humans just became modern after evolution and dont even know how they got here in the first place.
I strongly suggest you use the same definition of the word "evidence" as everybody else has since Galilei.
Also, I agree. Kindly hold your own religion or spirituality to the same standard.



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are you satisfied?
You throw out a few unsubstantiated pieces of opinion, label them as evidence, claim that science supports your view when science itself says differently and frankly your knowledge of science leaves everything to be desired, and your few attempts at argumentation are so fallacious they are hardly noticeable as attempts at argumentation?
Am I satisifed?

I've heard better arguments from Kirk "Duck-Man" Cameron.
Jesus, I joined to hone my skills in debate, but until now I have mostly succeeded in brushing up my sarcasm.
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Offline Anfauglir

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From my point of view God Exist because .....

Sudan, can you answer one quick question?  Why should we bother to respond to you in this thread, when you haven't bothered to respond to the many points raised in the LAST thread you started?  It's starting to look like you are just spamming, especially when (out of your 4 posts so far) 2 of your posts have been identical cut and pastes?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Barracuda

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Sciectific fact: Energy is neither created or destroyed" and "The Universe has no beginnings"
When did the latter become a "sciectific" fact?

Offline Hermes

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From my point of view God Exist because .....

Sudan, can you answer one quick question?  Why should we bother to respond to you in this thread, when you haven't bothered to respond to the many points raised in the LAST thread you started?  It's starting to look like you are just spamming, especially when (out of your 4 posts so far) 2 of your posts have been identical cut and pastes?

I strongly second the request.
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Offline Omen

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From my point of view God Exist because .....

Sudan, can you answer one quick question?  Why should we bother to respond to you in this thread, when you haven't bothered to respond to the many points raised in the LAST thread you started?  It's starting to look like you are just spamming, especially when (out of your 4 posts so far) 2 of your posts have been identical cut and pastes?

Ditto.
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Offline mommykicksbutt

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From my point of view God Exist because .....

Sudan, can you answer one quick question?  Why should we bother to respond to you in this thread, when you haven't bothered to respond to the many points raised in the LAST thread you started?  It's starting to look like you are just spamming, especially when (out of your 4 posts so far) 2 of your posts have been identical cut and pastes?

...
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Offline Petey

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Another quick question...

If there is no life after death, what exactly is the point of belief in any type of diety?
He never pays attention, he always knows the answer, and he can never tell you how he knows. We can't keep thrashing him. He is a bad example to the other pupils. There's no educating a smart boy.
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