Poll

What is your religious position?

gnostic atheist - I know for certain that there are no gods.
159 (16.5%)
gnostic monotheist - I know for certain that only one specific god exists.
94 (9.7%)
gnostic polytheist - I know for certain that there is more than one god.
4 (0.4%)
gnostic pantheist - I know for certain that that everything is god.
12 (1.2%)
gnostic deist - I know for certain that there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
6 (0.6%)
agnostic atheist - I do not know for certain, but I think there are no gods.
279 (28.9%)
agnostic monotheist - I do not know for certain, but I think only one specific god exists.
21 (2.2%)
agnostic polytheist - I do not know for certain, but I think there is more than one god.
4 (0.4%)
agnostic pantheist - I do not know for certain, but I think that everything is god.
24 (2.5%)
agnostic deist - I do not know for certain, but I think there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
36 (3.7%)
ignostic atheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there are no gods.
87 (9%)
ignostic monotheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that only one specific god exists.
2 (0.2%)
ignostic polytheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there is more than one god.
1 (0.1%)
ignostic pantheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that that everything is god.
10 (1%)
ignostic deist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
7 (0.7%)
apnostic atheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess there are no gods.
37 (3.8%)
apnostic monotheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess only one specific god exists.
1 (0.1%)
apnostic polytheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess there is more than one god.
0 (0%)
apnostic pantheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess that everything is god.
7 (0.7%)
apnostic deist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess there is a god that started the universe but does not actively meddle with it or us.
7 (0.7%)
Any type of henotheist - There (may be/is only) more than one god, but I think of only one specific god.
6 (0.6%)
I am a god!  [checks self in mirror and grins]
82 (8.5%)
Missionary.
30 (3.1%)
So! Many! Choices! (Karma Sutra)
50 (5.2%)

Total Members Voted: 628

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Offline Ataraxia

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #638 on: November 04, 2013, 05:16:35 AM »
I would have liked to have chosen at least one of the three below but the descriptions added don't match my position:

Quote
agnostic atheist - I do not know for certain, but I think there are no gods.

I don't know for certain, but I also don't think there are no gods.

Quote
ignostic atheist - While the concepts of god(s) are meaningless, it is likely that there are no gods.

While I've been introduced to a plethora of "Gods" that are meaningless, because of this I can't gauge the probability of their existence. Doing so itself, may also be meaningless.

Quote
apnostic atheist - I don't care if there are any gods, but I guess there are no gods.

While I don't care, I also don't guess that there are none.

That's it, I suppose.
If you keep on living your life as though your purpose is to be saved and go to heaven, you are missing the heaven that you are living in right now.

Online Azdgari

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #639 on: November 04, 2013, 09:23:19 AM »
I don't know for certain, but I also don't think there are no gods.

Sounds like one of the "agnostic theist" variants may fit you then.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Ataraxia

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #640 on: November 04, 2013, 09:27:23 AM »
I don't know for certain, but I also don't think there are no gods.

Sounds like one of the "agnostic theist" variants may fit you then.

How so, if I also don't think there are gods?
If you keep on living your life as though your purpose is to be saved and go to heaven, you are missing the heaven that you are living in right now.

Offline RubyLeo

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #641 on: November 04, 2013, 09:33:59 AM »
I don't know for certain, but I also don't think there are no gods.

Sounds like one of the "agnostic theist" variants may fit you then.

How so, if I also don't think there are gods?

I may need more coffee - but please explain how you can say "I don't think there are no gods" and then say "I also don't think there are gods."  It's making my brain hurt.   ;D
"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
~ Thomas Paine

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #642 on: November 04, 2013, 09:38:47 AM »
How so, if I also don't think there are gods?

Well if you don't think about the subject at all, then I guess there really isn't a category for you.  But then I'm left to wonder what brought you here.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Ataraxia

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #643 on: November 04, 2013, 09:42:42 AM »
I don't know for certain, but I also don't think there are no gods.

Sounds like one of the "agnostic theist" variants may fit you then.

How so, if I also don't think there are gods?

I may need more coffee - but please explain how you can say "I don't think there are no gods" and then say "I also don't think there are gods."  It's making my brain hurt.   ;D

(I'm going to equate think with believe, because for all itents and purposes they are the same here).

Not Believing/thinking in one thing does not automatically mean believing/thinking in the opposite. If there is not enough information for either case, then neither are believed/thought to be the case, even though it is acknowledged that one must be the case.

For example, there are either an even or odd number of blades of grass on my lawn at any one time. While I acknowledge that there are either an even or odd number of blades, I currently don't have the information to make a decision to believe/think that there are an even number or odd number.
If you keep on living your life as though your purpose is to be saved and go to heaven, you are missing the heaven that you are living in right now.

Offline Ataraxia

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #644 on: November 04, 2013, 09:43:47 AM »
How so, if I also don't think there are gods?

Well if you don't think about the subject at all, then I guess there really isn't a category for you.  But then I'm left to wonder what brought you here.

I do think about the subject, I just don't hold a thought either way as to which is correct.
If you keep on living your life as though your purpose is to be saved and go to heaven, you are missing the heaven that you are living in right now.

Offline RubyLeo

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #645 on: November 04, 2013, 09:57:11 AM »

(I'm going to equate think with believe, because for all itents and purposes they are the same here).

Not Believing/thinking in one thing does not automatically mean believing/thinking in the opposite. If there is not enough information for either case, then neither are believed/thought to be the case, even though it is acknowledged that one must be the case.

For example, there are either an even or odd number of blades of grass on my lawn at any one time. While I acknowledge that there are either an even or odd number of blades, I currently don't have the information to make a decision to believe/think that there are an even number or odd number.

Thanks for clarifying.  Wouldn't that make you just agnostic then?

Full Definition of AGNOSTIC (Merriam-Webster)

1
:  a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly :  one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
~ Thomas Paine

Offline Ataraxia

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #646 on: November 04, 2013, 10:00:44 AM »

(I'm going to equate think with believe, because for all itents and purposes they are the same here).

Not Believing/thinking in one thing does not automatically mean believing/thinking in the opposite. If there is not enough information for either case, then neither are believed/thought to be the case, even though it is acknowledged that one must be the case.

For example, there are either an even or odd number of blades of grass on my lawn at any one time. While I acknowledge that there are either an even or odd number of blades, I currently don't have the information to make a decision to believe/think that there are an even number or odd number.

Thanks for clarifying.  Wouldn't that make you just agnostic then?

Full Definition of AGNOSTIC (Merriam-Webster)

1
:  a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly :  one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

I could argue that it just makes me agnostic (and some do), but if I fit the criteria of an atheist (in not believing gods exist), then I'd say that makes me an atheist too.
If you keep on living your life as though your purpose is to be saved and go to heaven, you are missing the heaven that you are living in right now.

Offline RubyLeo

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #647 on: November 04, 2013, 10:06:42 AM »

I could argue that it just makes me agnostic (and some do), but if I fit the criteria of an atheist (in not believing gods exist), then I'd say that makes me an atheist too.

I hear ya. That's why I chose "agnostic atheist."
"Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true. "
~ Thomas Paine

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #648 on: November 04, 2013, 10:24:46 AM »
I do think about the subject, I just don't hold a thought either way as to which is correct.

Well if you don't hold theistic beliefs then you're an a-theist, because you're without-theism.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Nam

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #649 on: November 04, 2013, 11:10:33 AM »
I am a fatheist. Which is defined as: one who doesn't give a fuck if god/s exist or not.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Offline median

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #650 on: November 06, 2013, 03:23:26 PM »
Thus far my religious position is:

N/A
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Materialgirl

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #651 on: February 11, 2014, 02:17:19 AM »
Shifted from agnostic atheist to gnostic atheist recently based on overwhelming evidence imo of no God. Creation is sufficiently becoming explained, life is understood and supernatural type experiences are covered by neurobiological and psychiatric explanations.

It is not reasonable to claim doubt when science furnishes us with about 99.99999999... percent proof of no God (as characterised by typical God proponents) and no proof whatsoever of God/s.
I think to fence sit with agnosticism atheism is symptomatic of holding out hope due to some kind of psychological difficulty with truth... some sort of God wish hangover caught from world culture!

Paradoxically (tho not really) it is transcendent (some might call it spiritual) experiences of sudden insight that came to both me and patients as I nursed the dying that gradually... yet powerfully convinced me there is no God. One life, no soul, a unitary brain/mind.  :police:The "explanatory gap" is fabricated BS, our brain is fully capable of producing qualia.

Offline wheels5894

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #652 on: February 11, 2014, 03:31:59 AM »
Welcome to the forum. Materialgirl! It's great to see a new 'convert'!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Materialgirl

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #653 on: February 11, 2014, 04:18:09 AM »
Thx, getting to stage of life of not feeling like being quiet to keep the peace. Religious idiocy is driving me crazy. So upskill me.

Offline Ataraxia

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #654 on: February 11, 2014, 04:38:44 AM »
Hi Materialgirl and welcome to the forum.

Shifted from agnostic atheist to gnostic atheist recently based on overwhelming evidence imo of no God. Creation is sufficiently becoming explained,

Doesn't that depend on what god is being defined? If it's the literal Biblegod who never deceives and creates the world in 6 days 6000 years ago etc, then we can say that god doesn't exist because the evidence points to a different model. However, if it's a simple deist god with no real strings attached, void of ever being able to be falsified, then it follows that there can't be evidence that this god doesn't exist.

Quote
life is understood and supernatural type experiences are covered by neurobiological and psychiatric explanations.

Correct... to an extent. Any "supernatural" experience is immediately swallowed up by a natural explanation and therefore at least becomes indistinguishable from a natural experience. To experience the supernatural is akin to reaching tomorrow. However, just because the supernatural is beyond experience doesn't mean that it's existence is eliminated, only that it's indistinguishable from not existing.

Quote
It is not reasonable to claim doubt when science furnishes us with about 99.99999999... percent proof of no God (as characterised by typical God proponents) and no proof whatsoever of God/s.

I disagree, for the same reason I explain to theists. It is beyond the scope of science to provide evidence for gods existence or non-existence. The only way it can contradict a god is if that god is defined as creating the world a certain way yet the evidence points to the world working a different way.
However, we could explain how everything in the universe works using the scientific method, but that method will not eliminate a god being behind all of those naturalistic explanations.

Quote
I think to fence sit with agnosticism atheism is symptomatic of holding out hope due to some kind of psychological difficulty with truth... some sort of God wish hangover caught from world culture!

Not at all, for me anyway. It's just intellectual honesty because epistemology is a slippery fish. This doesn't just apply to gods - this applies to anything anyone can ever conceive or imagine up that has no evidence of existence in the world that can be perceived. God is the hangover because god is just flavour of the month, but this also applies to universe creating pixies, the FSM, spiritualism, mermaids, leprechauns, jkgsh84t4hg and anything else indistinct from made up bullshit.

Quote
Paradoxically (tho not really) it is transcendent (some might call it spiritual) experiences of sudden insight that came to both me and patients as I nursed the dying that gradually... yet powerfully convinced me there is no God. One life, no soul, a unitary brain/mind.  :police:The "explanatory gap" is fabricated BS, our brain is fully capable of producing qualia.

I don't find personal experiences to be a good way of establishing what is real/true, regardless of whether they are personal experiences of god, personal experiences that convince someone there is no god or something else, say personal experiences of seeing dead people. Such subjectivity just puts everybody on a level playing field.
So, if you don't find someone's personal experience of god to be convincing, then any you have yourself should be given the same consideration.
If you keep on living your life as though your purpose is to be saved and go to heaven, you are missing the heaven that you are living in right now.

Offline Materialgirl

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #655 on: February 11, 2014, 06:31:06 AM »
Hi Materialgirl and welcome to the forum.

Shifted from agnostic atheist to gnostic atheist recently based on overwhelming evidence imo of no God. Creation is sufficiently becoming explained,

Doesn't that depend on what god is being defined? If it's the literal Biblegod who never deceives and creates the world in 6 days 6000 years ago etc, then we can say that god doesn't exist because the evidence points to a different model. However, if it's a simple deist god with no real strings attached, void of ever being able to be falsified, then it follows that there can't be evidence that this god doesn't exist.
man has no interest in a god that is/says/does nothing and such a god is not even  worth wasting a thought on or debunking... as if it has no agency then its essentially a non entity. This conceptualisation is just moving goalposts to tangent off any helpful inquiry. I think atheists are better dealing with real illusions being propagated by the orthodox and new age religions - this involves understanding how they are packaging their gods to occupy the ever shrinking  margins of science
Quote
life is understood and supernatural type experiences are covered by neurobiological and psychiatric explanations.

Correct... to an extent. Any "supernatural" experience is immediately swallowed up by a natural explanation and therefore at least becomes indistinguishable from a natural experience. To experience the supernatural is akin to reaching tomorrow. However, just because the supernatural is beyond experience doesn't mean that it's existence is eliminated, only that it's indistinguishable from not existing.

Which gives it a weak evidential strength - beyond weak actually, pitiful. It is a reasonable leap and not large to say that if it is indistinguishable from something nonexistent it probably is non existent. Knowing in many cases must be about probabilities not absolute proof, sufficient info should enable a non tentative claim to know imo or else we would be paralysed in many ways

Quote
It is not reasonable to claim doubt when science furnishes us with about 99.99999999... percent proof of no God (as characterised by typical God proponents) and no proof whatsoever of God/s.

I disagree, for the same reason I explain to theists. It is beyond the scope of science to provide evidence for gods existence or non-existence. The only way it can contradict a god is if that god is defined as creating the world a certain way yet the evidence points to the world working a different way.
However, we could explain how everything in the universe works using the scientific method, but that method will not eliminate a god being behind all of those naturalistic explanations.

REASONABLENESS - we could demonstrate that every Santa Xmas is a mum or dad over 100 years, that doesn't exclude a real Santa who hasn't been on the job in a century but its fairly conclusive. If you still believe in Santa despite 100 yrs peer reviewed research and video surveillance footage let me sell you some real estate on Xenu where L Ron Hubbard awaits

Quote
I think to fence sit with agnosticism atheism is symptomatic of holding out hope due to some kind of psychological difficulty with truth... some sort of God wish hangover caught from world culture!

Not at all, for me anyway. It's just intellectual honesty because epistemology is a slippery fish. This doesn't just apply to gods - this applies to anything anyone can ever conceive or imagine up that has no evidence of existence in the world that can be perceived. God is the hangover because god is just flavour of the month, but this also applies to universe creating pixies, the FSM, spiritualism, mermaids, leprechauns, jkgsh84t4hg and anything else indistinct from made up bullshit.

Sory but I see it as a failure of honesty given the weight of evidence against any God of normal human ascribed attributes or of any other sort for that matter, say evidence dictates  there is only a chance in a billion billion that in some universe there is a pink unicorn and because we can't get there to falsify - this is not a good reason to leave the door on this open, it is more intellectually deluded than to close it imo - or be accused of being a crazy dreamer

Quote
Paradoxically (tho not really) it is transcendent (some might call it spiritual) experiences of sudden insight that came to both me and patients as I nursed the dying that gradually... yet powerfully convinced me there is no God. One life, no soul, a unitary brain/mind.  :police:The "explanatory gap" is fabricated BS, our brain is fully capable of producing qualia.

I don't find personal experiences to be a good way of establishing what is real/true, regardless of whether they are personal experiences of god, personal experiences that convince someone there is no god or something else, say personal experiences of seeing dead people. Such subjectivity just puts everybody on a level playing field.
So, if you don't find someone's personal experience of god to be convincing, then any you have yourself should be given the same consideration.

Im not asking you to be persuaded by my experience, merely relaying it. You cant falsify that my miraculously complex brain has not fired off at some synapses creating a perfect model that proves God does not exist, however one so complex I was able to pattern intuit its meaning yet am unable to annotate and communicate the model - so if you want to maintain consistency with not closing the door on a non falsifiable God in interets of intellectual fussiness then I dont think you should deny the capacity of my brain to have solved the question in such a way I lack the language capability to communicate. Our language and manifest culture lags markedly behind our cognitive capabilities

Offline Nam

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #656 on: February 11, 2014, 09:14:18 AM »
What's up with the red text? Use regular text.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #657 on: February 11, 2014, 09:16:58 AM »
What's up with the red text? Use regular text.

She doesn't know how to quote.
Materialgirl, click here to go to the Quoting FAQ and click here for the Test Area.

-Nam

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Offline summersolstice

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #658 on: March 16, 2014, 02:29:46 PM »
I've seen a lot of arguments about "agnosticism" vs" Agnostic Atheism" (i.e. the undecided viewpoint) btw the argument wasn't on this forum. Anyway I just thought this would be a good place to post a link to this:

http://agnosticismatheism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/is-agnosticism-type-of-agnostic-atheism.html

btw this is my first post:D

Offline median

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #659 on: March 16, 2014, 02:46:33 PM »
I've seen a lot of arguments about "agnosticism" vs" Agnostic Atheism" (i.e. the undecided viewpoint) btw the argument wasn't on this forum. Anyway I just thought this would be a good place to post a link to this:

http://agnosticismatheism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/is-agnosticism-type-of-agnostic-atheism.html

btw this is my first post:D

Welcome to the WWGHA Forum. Make sure you read the forum rules as well as learn how to properly make quotations when responding to others. Happy chatting.



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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #660 on: March 16, 2014, 02:51:32 PM »
^^^welcome, summersolstice

We weren't expecting you just yet. We thought we'd have to wait til June. But welcome.  ;D

From my perspective, after wading through all the specifics offered by the linked article, how I define my atheism is of more importance to me than how it is labeled by others. The author seemed a bit too anal to me, and very few folks have shown up here interest in anything more than the standard dichotomy; is there a god or not.

So while I realize that very detailed definitions exist for the variations (and your link is certainly complete in that department), I don't think the details are too important. The recent arguments we've had with a theist or two on this subject was never about the exact definition, though the theists sometimes pretended it was. Rather, it was about them demanding that we accept everything they say as gospel, and it was about their incredulity that we don't. And sadly, that is usually the best a theist can do around here. Most of are patiently waiting for someone to show up who can argue for theism without insisting that we agree with all of their assumptions and definitions to begin with. And none of them seem to be able to be as eloquent as the linked article.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline wheels5894

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #661 on: March 16, 2014, 03:11:31 PM »
I've seen a lot of arguments about "agnosticism" vs" Agnostic Atheism" (i.e. the undecided viewpoint) btw the argument wasn't on this forum. Anyway I just thought this would be a good place to post a link to this:

http://agnosticismatheism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/is-agnosticism-type-of-agnostic-atheism.html

btw this is my first post:D

Welcome!

You know, humans have this thing about classifying things but the person you link to has gone mad to classify anything anyone might think! It believe and non-belief were clear cut - maybe evidence - then it would, sort of, make sense. As it is, it seems like someone telling me what I think. Not the way to go.

For starters, it doesn't account for people like my son who thinks there is nothing worth thinking about religion or lack of it. He is completely disinterested in the whole subject. What does that make him? I, having studied theology at university level, conclude there is nothing in the way of evidence for the existence of any god - just like most people don't believe in Odin though, oddly, we mark him weekly in the day named after him, Wednesday!

Where do you fit on the range of opinions, summersolstice?
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline summersolstice

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #662 on: March 17, 2014, 03:32:23 AM »
You want to careful criticing the author of that Link:
I'm the author! Don't worry I'm not offended:) the article was me trying resolve disputes I'd Seen on youtube regarding agnosticism and atheism(their meaning):D I reasearched It and read somewhere (can't remember where) that the definition of atheism had been "diluted" hence the dispute:)

Anyway for quite a while I have thought It doesn't matter what a word means along as people you're talking to know what you mean

Offline Nam

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #663 on: March 17, 2014, 10:23:39 AM »
It's okay, most of us don't click links; especially by newbies; they could be drive by posters; and we'd end up making fun of and deriding the person.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #664 on: March 24, 2014, 09:35:36 AM »
Cool pic:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #665 on: March 24, 2014, 05:10:21 PM »
It has wisely been brought to my attention that my comment above about the article posted by summersolstice was harsh for no reason. And my harshness was made worse by the fact that she, a new person here who is most definitely one of us, was the author of said article. There was nothing I disagreed with in her post, I just commented a bit too freely about how I thought it was overly detailed, and I chose to use a word that is seldom welcomed by its recipients.

I was wrong to savage an article that I didn't disagree with in any way. And I was wrong to berate merely because my tolerance for detail is close to zero. I live on a planet with 7 billion others, and I need to learn that my standards don't satisfy everyone else, so I shouldn't expect only my criterion to be met.

I'm sorry, summersolstice. Please accept this apology in the spirit intended.

And Nam, not a peep out of you. If we were all as unapologetic as you, you wouldn't be nearly as special. :D
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline Nam

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Re: What is your religious position?
« Reply #666 on: March 24, 2014, 07:40:46 PM »
Special like an asshole.

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.