Author Topic: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists  (Read 14448 times)

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Offline subtleinspiration

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Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« on: August 06, 2009, 02:13:16 PM »
From the The Huffington Post

Quote
The American Psychological Association declared Wednesday that mental health professionals should not tell gay clients they can become straight through therapy or other treatments.

Instead, the APA urged therapists to consider multiple options – that could range from celibacy to switching churches – for helping clients whose sexual orientation and religious faith conflict.

In a resolution adopted on a 125-to-4 vote by the APA's governing council, and in a comprehensive report based on two years of research, the 150,000-member association put itself firmly on record in opposition of so-called "reparative therapy" which seeks to change sexual orientation.

No solid evidence exists that such change is likely, says the report, and some research suggests that efforts to produce change could be harmful, inducing depression and suicidal tendencies.
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Offline jedweber

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 02:26:41 PM »
Glad you posted this. I was going put it up myself, since somebody was here defending ex-gay therapy not long ago.

I think it's noteworthy that they examined 83 studies going all the way back to 1960 to reach this conclusion.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 02:49:18 PM »
just wait, we'll have those "good Christians" attacking psychology like the Scientologists do. 
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Offline jedweber

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 03:18:52 PM »
just wait, we'll have those "good Christians" attacking psychology like the Scientologists do. 

If not psychology, at least the evil APA. Here's what one Christian pundit wrote in 1997, when they first criticized ex-gay therapy.
 
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What we’re seeing in the APA’s action is the politicizing of medicine. Beneficial practices are being condemned simply because they run counter to a politically correct agenda. The Family Research Council correctly says that this resolution "condemns many patients to a life of… needless suffering."

And make no mistake: This resolution is intended to drive Christians right out of the field of psychology. In essence, biblical counseling of homosexuals will be redefined as malpractice. As the Christian perspective becomes increasingly unpopular, Christians are simply being pushed out of various professions.

If any of this reminds you of the tactics of Nazi Germany, it ought to. ... [yeah, he went there]

I'm sure they could dust this off and use it today...

Offline Irish

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 03:33:01 PM »
Well look at that. Trying to "fix gays" does harm to the person... just like many of us have said.
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 03:57:46 PM »
Are any of you familiar with the late Roman Catholic priest, Father John Hardon?

I assure you I have not invented that name.

He's the author of a seminal (ha-ha) work, the Modern Catholic Dictionary, which is the go-to dictionary for contemporary Catholics.

Here's the entry on Homosexuality (my bolding):

Quote
HOMOSEXUALITY
In general, some form of sexual relationship among members of the same sex. From a moral standpoint, three levels are to be distinguished: tendency, attraction, and activity. Homosexual tendencies in any person are within the normal range of human nature, whose fallen condition includes every conceivable kind impulse that with sincere effort and divine grace can be controlled.

Sexual attraction for members of the same sex may be partly due to the peculiar make-up of certain individuals or, more often, the result of indiscretion or seduction and presents a graver problem; yet this, too, is not by itself sinful and may in fact be an occasion for great supernatural merit. When the condition is pathological, it requires therapy. Active homosexuality is morally indefensible and has been many times forbidden in revelation and the teaching of the Church. The most extensive declaration on the subject was the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, approved by Pope Paul VI on November 7, 1975.


All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.

What a surprise.

Offline jedweber

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 05:28:40 PM »
The Catholic church is just awful on the issue of homosexuality. As bad as the fundies.

There are some areas where the church can be fairly progressive (such as social justice, or accepting evolution) and but never in anything related to sexuality. It seems to freak them out, they're at war with it. 

Offline Nick

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 05:30:22 PM »
But what about Ted Haggard?  Does this mean he is not cured?  Damn, what will he do now? :'(
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 09:06:33 AM »
Are any of you familiar with the late Roman Catholic priest, Father John Hardon?

I assure you I have not invented that name.

He's the author of a seminal (ha-ha) work, the Modern Catholic Dictionary, which is the go-to dictionary for contemporary Catholics.

Here's the entry on Homosexuality (my bolding):

Quote
HOMOSEXUALITY
In general, some form of sexual relationship among members of the same sex. From a moral standpoint, three levels are to be distinguished: tendency, attraction, and activity. Homosexual tendencies in any person are within the normal range of human nature, whose fallen condition includes every conceivable kind impulse that with sincere effort and divine grace can be controlled.

Sexual attraction for members of the same sex may be partly due to the peculiar make-up of certain individuals or, more often, the result of indiscretion or seduction and presents a graver problem; yet this, too, is not by itself sinful and may in fact be an occasion for great supernatural merit. When the condition is pathological, it requires therapy. Active homosexuality is morally indefensible and has been many times forbidden in revelation and the teaching of the Church. The most extensive declaration on the subject was the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, approved by Pope Paul VI on November 7, 1975.


All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.

What a surprise.

I love this.  The RCC wants to ignore their own "savior" by sayign that the thought isn't "quite" as bad as the action. 
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Offline jedweber

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 09:15:49 AM »
I think they're so sensitive about it because so many priests are repressed (or not-so-repressed) gays themselves.
Quote
Fr. Donald Cozzens, psychologist and seminary professor in Cleveland, Ohio, estimates 50% of the priests and seminarians have homosexual inclination, and...100% of bishops come from the ranks of the priests.

Maybe it's sort of like the homophobic tough guy who always bashes gays, then gets caught blowing a guy in a toilet.

Offline Tealeaf

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2009, 09:00:24 PM »
How exactly is therapy for changing sexuality supposed to work? You watch straight porn long long enough? But pron is wrong.... So....they say you're going to hell long enough to....scare the gay out??

Ted Haggard is fine example of this insanity. How are you "cured" from being gay? How much longer do you think he would have kept getting blow jobs from that guy in motel rooms before he decided he needed 'curing' if not for the media exposure??

What the hell is going through his bonehead wife's head? I watched the documentary on him and she doesn't seem to be the least concerned he's gay or maybe bisexual at least. The level of delusion is just....astounding. And is gay cheating more permisable than straight cheating?? Well....I wouldn't mind if I have a wife and she wanted to....eat some fish on the side. But I'd want to watch. But these two are supposed to be shining examples of family values and morality and all that BS here....

Offline Onesimus

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2009, 11:14:46 PM »
Quote from: velkyn
Quote
Sexual attraction for members of the same sex may be partly due to the peculiar make-up of certain individuals or, more often, the result of indiscretion or seduction and presents a graver problem; yet this, too, is not by itself sinful and may in fact be an occasion for great supernatural merit.

I love this.  The RCC wants to ignore their own "savior" by sayign that the thought isn't "quite" as bad as the action. 

Oh yeah, it's completely unscriptural and downright wacky.  It is, however, practical and expedient, and has been used for years to convince gay Catholic boys that their lack of interest in women is actually a sign from God to enter the priesthood. 

As far as therapy, I wasn't ever part of a specific therapy, because neither I nor anyone around me was aware that any was needed.  Gay thoughts?  Just say no, and forget it.  Date women.  Force yourself to date women even if you don't feel like doing it.  This is what God wants you to do, and eventually you'll get the hang of it, just like riding a bicycle, and end up a happy married straight guy who never looks back.  It sounds goofy, but I've met way too many older men who did this very thing and even managed to have kids before they realized that the Hetero Fairy wasn't ever going to whack them on the head with the magic wand.  Ted Haggard isn't even close to being an isolated example.   

Offline Nick

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 08:12:13 AM »
If there was a way for a guy guy to be made straight couldn't it also go the other way and make straight guys gay?  This could be very confusing or the makings for a new reality show on TV.
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Offline jedweber

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 08:29:36 AM »
If there was a way for a guy guy to be made straight couldn't it also go the other way and make straight guys gay? 

Yes, they often accuse gay people of "recruiting." It's one reason they don't want kids exposed to information about homosexuality, they might decide to take it up.

Offline subtleinspiration

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2009, 11:41:32 AM »
Yes, they often accuse gay people of "recruiting." It's one reason they don't want kids exposed to information about homosexuality, they might decide to take it up.

Which is stupid. You can show me pictures of smiling and laughing gay couples all day long and it's not going to "convert" me to homosexuality.
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Offline PinkMilk

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2009, 12:30:12 PM »
How exactly is therapy for changing sexuality supposed to work? You watch straight porn long long enough? But pron is wrong.... So....they say you're going to hell long enough to....scare the gay out??
That is exactly the core principle behind that type of "therapy".  I refuse to call it therapy as it in no way helps a person.
Quote
Ted Haggard is fine example of this insanity. How are you "cured" from being gay? How much longer do you think he would have kept getting blow jobs from that guy in motel rooms before he decided he needed 'curing' if not for the media exposure??
As long as his "dirty little secret" could be kept in the closet (pun intended), he would have continued on with his behavior.  The fact is that you can not "cure" homosexuality.  To suggest there is a cure suggests that homosexuality is a problem.  It is only a problem if you are religious or are homophobic.
Quote
What the hell is going through his bonehead wife's head? I watched the documentary on him and she doesn't seem to be the least concerned he's gay or maybe bisexual at least. The level of delusion is just....astounding. And is gay cheating more permisable than straight cheating?? Well....I wouldn't mind if I have a wife and she wanted to....eat some fish on the side. But I'd want to watch. But these two are supposed to be shining examples of family values and morality and all that BS here....
It just goes to show the hypocrisy of the religious. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh yeah, it's completely unscriptural and downright wacky.  It is, however, practical and expedient, and has been used for years to convince gay Catholic boys that their lack of interest in women is actually a sign from God to enter the priesthood. 
That would explain a lot.
Quote
As far as therapy, I wasn't ever part of a specific therapy, because neither I nor anyone around me was aware that any was needed.  Gay thoughts?  Just say no, and forget it.  Date women.  Force yourself to date women even if you don't feel like doing it.  This is what God wants you to do, and eventually you'll get the hang of it, just like riding a bicycle, and end up a happy married straight guy who never looks back.  It sounds goofy, but I've met way too many older men who did this very thing and even managed to have kids before they realized that the Hetero Fairy wasn't ever going to whack them on the head with the magic wand.  Ted Haggard isn't even close to being an isolated example.   
That's the problem.  They try to teach homosexuals to ignore this and continue lying to themselves and others.  It only creates further problems.  It is absolutely absurd. 

I'm really glad that the APA voted the way they did in this matter.  It would have first of all contradicted the code of ethics by which all psychologists are bound if they had voted for it.  It is very clearly outlined in the code of ethics that psychologists are not to force their own views and/or way of life onto their clients.  To suggest that a clients way of life is wrong and needs to change in order to save their immortal soul is a complete violation of this.  Not to mention that it is also against the ethical code to create or make a matter worse for a client.  If a client is in therapy to deal with their homosexuality, telling them it's wrong or suggesting that they need to "pray the gay away" is in no way helping the matter and will only make things worse. 
I can see where your coming from but on the other hand i dont want my kid to learn about evolution or see homosexualisom talked about in a scince classs ethier. <-- From Youguysarepathetic

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Offline Cynic

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2009, 07:55:38 AM »

Quote
Fr. Donald Cozzens, psychologist and seminary professor in Cleveland, Ohio, estimates 50% of the priests and seminarians have homosexual inclination, and...100% of bishops come from the ranks of the priests.

How does one gather data for this? Is it not difficult to determine the sexuality of someone who is supposed to be celibate?
Quote
At least two thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity, idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religious or political idols.
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Offline PinkMilk

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2009, 09:15:23 PM »
Supposed to be the key word there  ;)
I can see where your coming from but on the other hand i dont want my kid to learn about evolution or see homosexualisom talked about in a scince classs ethier. <-- From Youguysarepathetic

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Offline Asmoday

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2009, 09:35:24 PM »
How does one gather data for this? Is it not difficult to determine the sexuality of someone who is supposed to be celibate?
Actually it´s quite simple.

The researchers just have to ask the altar boys and girls.  ;D
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Offline jedweber

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2009, 07:33:14 AM »
Is it not difficult to determine the sexuality of someone who is supposed to be celibate?

Well, not in theory. Someone who's not having sex could still tell you which gender they are attracted to. But I doubt that many gay priests are going to be up-front about their inclinations, especially if denial drove them into the priesthood in the first place.

I imagine these "estimates" are based on anecdotal evidence, or small samples, or wild guesses. Here's a list of other people who made estimates, or tried to do surveys:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_rcc.htm

Offline Agent40

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2009, 01:59:44 PM »
I just read this entire thread and I gotta say I feel like I should send in a donation to the whywontgodhealamputees website. It continually provides for me great comic relief.

This is what instantly came to mind while I was reading all these likeminded posts . . .


Imagine a bunch of high school kids having a debate on the legalization of marijuana.

Dude, there is nothing wrong with pot. It’s natural man. If God didn’t want us to get stoned, he wouldn’t have created marijuana.

Yeah man, I read somewhere that pot is actually good for you. It increases your creativity.

There are a bunch of people who smoke grass regularly and they seem to be doing fine, so obviously it’s fine – duhh!

Dude, I saw some report that 50% of priests smoke reefer in the rectory at night.

The only reason the “Christian Conservatives” don’t like it is because they don’t know how to have a good time like us. They hate anything to do with sex, drugs, and rock n’roll. They’re so lame.

Seriously dude, a little bit of weeds not gonna make society go down the tubes. It’s harmless. Wough, I never noticed my hand looked like this before.

Hey, there is this guy named Fr. John Harden who says it’s not in man’s best interest to smoke pot and that it is beneath man’s dignity to do so. He claims it won’t bring a person real peace.

Wait, did you just say hard on? Huhh, huhh, hard on, huhh, huuh

Yeah, I don’t know what the big deal is -- pot feels so gooood and it can really help us grow in self-control and over-all character.

Oh, man I can’t stop eating these Cheetos?

Those are Cheetos? I thought they were orange caterpillars.

Hey how do you know the orange color you see is the same orange color I see?

Is class over yet? I gotta pee . . .


Beavis and Butthead got noth’n on you all!


Offline Agent40

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2009, 02:09:38 PM »
Quote
In a resolution adopted on a 125-to-4 vote by the APA's governing council, and in a comprehensive report based on two years of research, the 150,000-member association put itself firmly on record in opposition of so-called "reparative therapy" which seeks to change sexual orientation.

No solid evidence exists that such change is likely



The APA is merely claiming that that there is no evidence that homosexuals have changed from some “reparative therapy.” Ok? I have no idea what “reparative therapy” is, but all that means is the method of “reparative therapy” hasn’t been shown effective. So, perhaps other therapy methods are effective. How can they possibly claim a person’s life cannot be improved by being counseled to not engage in homosexual acts?

Here are testimonies from many who have in fact done just that. I have no idea what kind of therapy they received, but whatever it was they all report to be psychologically healthier and happier once they made the conscious decision to not engage in a homosexual lifestyle.


www.couragerc.net  click on member testimonies in the sidebar.


I do hope you will take the time to read the personal testimonies. They are very interesting. I particularly found it interesting how one individual’s testimony mentioned he kept encountering therapists who encouraged him to pursue a gay lifestyle – to not fight it. If a therapist shouldn’t encourage one not to act on same-sex attraction, why should they be permitted to encourage patients to act on them? Especially since there is no evidence that homosexuals are happier living a homosexual lifestyle vs. not?



And in fact, isn’t one of their recommendations that a therapist could advise celibacy?


Quote
Instead, the APA urged therapists to consider multiple options – that could range from celibacy to switching churches – for helping clients whose sexual orientation and religious faith conflict


Huh? Sounds like what the Church advises?


 





Quote
Well look at that. Trying to "fix gays" does harm to the person... just like many of us have said.
   


Wow! You all really do just make up what you want to hear. Is that what the APA said? I believe the APA attempted to say there was no proof the therapy worked. They did not report any conclusive studies proving it was harmful. Please show me such evidence and when you do, I’ll show you the evidence that those who engage in homosexual acts fair worse than heterosexuals when it comes to AIDS, depression, alcohol/drug abuse, and suicide.



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The Catholic church is just awful on the issue of homosexuality. As bad as the fundies.


Be more specific please. Just awful because???? And please, I don’t plan to accept your opinion on what it is you think the Church has to say regarding homosexuality. The Church teaches we are to treat homosexuals with love and compassion. What Church teachings would you like to cite as awful?

Please show me what the Church teaches that is so awful. The Church believes homosexual acts are wrong. The Church bases its decision on natural law, logic, science, biology, facts, observation and right reason. You believe homosexual acts are good. What do you base such a decision on? I could say atheists are just awful on the issue of homosexuality. Almost as bad as the APA.



Quote
There are some areas where the church can be fairly progressive (such as social justice, or accepting evolution) and but never in anything related to sexuality. It seems to freak them out, they're at war with it.



Hmmm? Could this be because truth exists and cannot change – don’t worry, I don’t expect you to understand. If the Church gets so many other things right (as you admitted) have you ever considered they may be right about this too?






Quote
think they're so sensitive about it because so many priests are repressed (or not-so-repressed) gays themselves.
Quote
Fr. Donald Cozzens, psychologist and seminary professor in Cleveland, Ohio, estimates 50% of the priests and seminarians have homosexual inclination, and...100% of bishops come from the ranks of the priests.

Maybe it's sort of like the homophobic tough guy who always bashes gays, then gets caught blowing a guy in a toilet

From www.religioustolerance.org/hom_rcc.htm -:

The following diverse quotes were extracted from reviews of a book by Father Donald Cozzens, titled "The Changing Face of the Priesthood:"

"It would be highly unlikely that a homosexual man in direct contradiction with God's law and even that of other faiths such as Judaism...would go through the steps of becoming a priest."

 "The presence of large numbers of homosexuals in the clergy is probable, although the 50% that Cozzens suggests seems far too high."

It is important to keep in mind that the vast majority of priests, with a heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual orientation, do not molest or sexually abuse young people. In fact, the percentage of pedophiles -- adults who molest young children -- among the Catholic priesthood appears to be lower than the average for all males.

What percentage of priests have a homosexual orientation?

Nobody knows, with any degree of accuracy.

Some estimates of the percentage of current priests with a homosexual orientation:

Analysis of the estimates of others:     

According to Bill Blakemore of ABC News, "...nobody knows what percentage of the American priesthood is gay; estimates range from less than 10% to more than 30%." 4

    
Actual surveys:

In the Fall of 1999, the Kansas City Star sent a questionnaire to 3,000 priests in the U.S. 73% did not reply. The low response rate could be anticipated. One would expect homosexuals and bisexuals to be reluctant to respond to the questionnaire since it deals with such a sensitive issue, and originated from a newspaper. Homosexual and bisexual priests would probably be less likely to reply to the survey. Among the 801 priests who did reply:     75% said they had a heterosexual orientation

15% homosexual;
    5% bisexual


www.religioustolerance.org/hom_rcc.htm -



New Oxford Review: Notes: It just so happens that surveys of the sort Buffer wants have been done, and with very little effect. The latest one was done by the Los Angeles Times, as reported in its October 20 and 21, 2002 issues. (The Times says it's the "most extensive" survey of priests done since its previous survey in 1994.) Of the 45,382 priests in the U.S., the Times sent surveys to 5,000, of whom 1,854 responded. The Times pronounces this "statistically representative." The results?
A combined 15 percent of priests say they are "gay" (9 percent) or "on the homosexual side" (6 percent).

catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/homosexual-priests1.htm




.


Quote
Oh yeah, it's completely unscriptural and downright wacky.  It is, however, practical and expedient, and has been used for years to convince gay Catholic boys that their lack of interest in women is actually a sign from God to enter the priesthood


Uhh, well, since scripture is the one who tells us to listen to the Church you can’t really say what the Church says is unscriptural. LOL!

Also, Newsflash! The Church has no desire for those who think they have a same-sex attraction to enter the priesthood. You are so ignorant and I’d like to see evidence of such an anti-catholic statement. The Church continually tries to improve its screening of potential candidates. The Church tries to make sure a person is not simply becoming a priest to escape their unfulfilling lives they may currently be experiencing.



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Force yourself to date women even if you don't feel like doing it.  This is what God wants you to do, and eventually you'll get the hang of it, just like riding a bicycle, and end up a happy married straight guy who never looks back

Not at all what the therapy does, but good job perpetuating a stereotype. One testimony from the group I cited earlier mentions there is a 12-step process he was advised to follow. Somehow, I doubt one of the steps was telling him to marry a girl, even if he wasn’t sexually attracted to her. You all are pathetic. Your spouting of lies and misinformation is disgusting. Simply because the Church is in disagreement with you regarding homosexual acts, you have to paint her as a monster yelling “turn or burn” at a patient struggling with a disorder. You have no evidence that any of your comments are even remotely based on facts.


Quote
How exactly is therapy for changing sexuality supposed to work? You watch straight porn long long enough? But pron is wrong.... So....they say you're going to hell long enough to....scare the gay out??
That is exactly the core principle behind that type of "therapy".  I refuse to call it therapy as it in no way helps a person.

This is absurd. Where are you getting your information, pinkmilk?

Quote
As long as his "dirty little secret" could be kept in the closet (pun intended), he would have continued on with his behavior.  The fact is that you can not "cure" homosexuality.  To suggest there is a cure suggests that homosexuality is a problem.  It is only a problem if you are religious or are homophobic.

This is completely unprofessional of you. If your client thinks it is a problem for him/her – then it is a problem. How dare you dismiss the client’s own feelings regarding the matter and be so biased and prejudiced to actually suggest it is only a problem if you are religious or homophobic. You, Pinkmilk, are religiousphobic and I seriously think it could cause problems for you in your career if you do not get it under control. I realize homosexuality may not be your realm of expertise, but if you honestly are so biased against religion, it is unfair of you to council others according to your personal agenda.


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Oh yeah, it's completely unscriptural and downright wacky.  It is, however, practical and expedient, and has been used for years to convince gay Catholic boys that their lack of interest in women is actually a sign from God to enter the priesthood. 
That would explain a lot.

Yes it would, if it were based on an ounce of truth, but as usual you all simply eat up the lies you tell one another in an attempt to validate your own erroneous view regarding the issue.



Quote
I'm really glad that the APA voted the way they did in this matter.  It would have first of all contradicted the code of ethics by which all psychologists are bound if they had voted for it.  It is very clearly outlined in the code of ethics that psychologists are not to force their own views and/or way of life onto their clients.


You might want to look in the mirror and take your own advice here.



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To suggest that a clients way of life is wrong and needs to change in order to save their immortal soul is a complete violation of this.  Not to mention that it is also against the ethical code to create or make a matter worse for a client.




What if the client believes it is wrong? What if the client personally sought out a Christian therapist because in fact they are a believer themself? What if a client insists to you that they accept the truth that homosexual acts are immoral, and would like help in dealing with their same-sex attraction?


Quote
If a client is in therapy to deal with their homosexuality, telling them it's wrong or suggesting that they need to "pray the gay away" is in no way helping the matter and will only make things worse.


How do you know it is not wrong? You still have not proven any such thing? And Pinkmilk, just because you do not believe in prayer, does not mean that one of your clients wouldn’t. How very wrong of you to discount their worldview and beliefs. It would be wrong for you to force your opinions and beliefs on someone else. Talk about really screwing up a client! Shame on you.



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How does one gather data for this? Is it not difficult to determine the sexuality of someone who is supposed to be celibate?Actually it´s quite simple. The researchers just have to ask the altar boys and girls.   




Completely inappropriate anti-Catholic comment.  Is there a moderator in the house?







The following is some factors that really ought to be looked into further and not swept under the rug. If psychologist really wanted to help a person struggling with a same-sex attraction, they ought to give some credence to the following . . .

Study: Childhood Sexual Abuse Often a Factor in Sexual Disorientation
By Bob Ellis on July 7th, 2009
dakotavoice.com/2009/07/study-childhood-sexual-abuse-often-a-factor

And a final note, I suppose with your logic, it would be impossible to rehabilitate pedophiles? I mean if one can’t change who they are sexually attracted to, then I guess there is no hope for pedophiles – too bad.

Why do people sexually abuse children?
There are many different kinds of abusers, and it’s not clear why people molest children. What’s been found in recent research is an overwhelming majority of people guilty of child molesting, were molested themselves. We used to think this statistic was much smaller, but with more detailed research, we’ve discovered this statistic to be very high. Statistics involving men in New Jersey prisons convicted of sexual abuse, found that over 95% of the men, were in fact abused themselves. And we don’t know, but it could be that the 5% of non-abused men in that case don’t remember being abused as children; they may have amnesia or a traumatic dissociation.. Some abuse may be the attempt to relive one’s own abuse, with power roles reversed. Another reason may be these people have learned that abuse is a way of feeling in control. Fundamentally, in all cases of abuse, it certainly is about power and control.

www.allaboutcounseling.com/sexual_abuse.htm


Ahh, more wonderful benefits we owe to lovely pornography . . . .

Does pornography promote sexual abuse?

There are lots of studies about the effects of pornography. Does viewing child pornography create a greater desire in perpetrators to abuse children? Yes, it seems to. There have been studies that seem to demonstrate arousal of perpetrators from viewing child pornography, particularly pedophile. We can’t say absolutely if pornography makes them act on their arousal, but it seems to be part of the constellation about what causes them to abuse.

It’s also found that viewing violent or sexual materials can affect attitudes involving adult rape. There are studies demonstrating males who view continuous violent pornographic movies, will have much more tolerance for the rape of a women. Whether this means it makes a person rape (date rape or stranger rape), is not absolute. And there’s a correlation with viewing violent pornography and repeat rapists, but we don’t know there is a causation between the two.

www.allaboutcounseling.com/sexual_abuse.htm



Still waiting to hear from someone how exactly they can know homosexual acts to be right or good? Still waiting . . .

Offline Emily

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2009, 02:51:24 PM »
I just read this entire thread and I gotta say I feel like I should send in a donation to the whywontgodhealamputees website. It continually provides for me great comic relief.

This is what instantly came to mind while I was reading all these likeminded posts . . .


Imagine a bunch of high school kids having a debate on the legalization of marijuana.

Dude, there is nothing wrong with pot. It’s natural man. If God didn’t want us to get stoned, he wouldn’t have created marijuana.

Yeah man, I read somewhere that pot is actually good for you. It increases your creativity.

There are a bunch of people who smoke grass regularly and they seem to be doing fine, so obviously it’s fine – duhh!

Dude, I saw some report that 50% of priests smoke reefer in the rectory at night.

The only reason the “Christian Conservatives” don’t like it is because they don’t know how to have a good time like us. They hate anything to do with sex, drugs, and rock n’roll. They’re so lame.

Seriously dude, a little bit of weeds not gonna make society go down the tubes. It’s harmless. Wough, I never noticed my hand looked like this before.

Hey, there is this guy named Fr. John Harden who says it’s not in man’s best interest to smoke pot and that it is beneath man’s dignity to do so. He claims it won’t bring a person real peace.

Wait, did you just say hard on? Huhh, huhh, hard on, huhh, huuh

Yeah, I don’t know what the big deal is -- pot feels so gooood and it can really help us grow in self-control and over-all character.

Oh, man I can’t stop eating these Cheetos?

Those are Cheetos? I thought they were orange caterpillars.

Hey how do you know the orange color you see is the same orange color I see?

Is class over yet? I gotta pee . . .


Beavis and Butthead got noth’n on you all!



Yeah, this was really lame.

EDIT:

Look at that, Velkyn is a prophet. She said this,

"just wait, we'll have those "good Christians" attacking psychology like the Scientologists do."

at the beginning, then Agent40 steps onto the scene.

All worship Velkyn.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 03:20:02 PM by Emily »
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline PinkMilk

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2009, 07:59:42 PM »
Agent40, your attempt to compare the legalization of pot to "get straight therapy" is absolutely ridiculous.  They are nothing alike.  There is no 12 program that can change someone's sexuality.  Not only is it impossible to change someone's sexuality, it is also causes further psychological damage to even attempt to do so.  I did not read all of your posts as they were extremely long, but I could tell that you were advocating that there are therapy systems out there that actually accomplish the task of turning homosexuals straight, let me guess this another of your Dr. Ray approved therapies that you endorse?
I can see where your coming from but on the other hand i dont want my kid to learn about evolution or see homosexualisom talked about in a scince classs ethier. <-- From Youguysarepathetic

At least I have a mother. Have you? (serious question) <---From Skylark889

Offline Hermes

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2009, 09:29:58 PM »
Look at that, Velkyn is a prophet. She said this,

"just wait, we'll have those "good Christians" attacking psychology like the Scientologists do."

at the beginning, then Agent40 steps onto the scene.

All worship Velkyn.

A sacrifice will be offered ...

Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline PinkMilk

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2009, 05:09:31 AM »
Look at that, Velkyn is a prophet. She said this,

"just wait, we'll have those "good Christians" attacking psychology like the Scientologists do."

at the beginning, then Agent40 steps onto the scene.

All worship Velkyn.

A sacrifice will be offered ...



How could I miss a comment so blatantly in the face of science as this?  Agent40 does not completely oppose psychology as she has on other threads endorsed the "psychological commentary" of people such as "Dr." Ray.   It is clear that because the accepted ideals of psychology differ from that of her religion she takes issue with those who disagree with her own viewpoint.  On another thread agent40 has said that I prescribe to "pop psychology".  If anything the "pop psychologists" would include people like Dr. Phil, Dr. Ray and Dr. Nancy.  At this point I know she is completely going based on hear say.  While I have made other psychological arguments that she has attempted to refute, this one takes the cake.  This is personally my field of expertise and I refuse to allow some christian to make an agenda of the field of psychology.  Scientology has personally taken a vendetta against psychology as it exposes their techniques of exploit.  Am I to truly believe that a comment made by a "true catholic" is to be taken any differently? 
I can see where your coming from but on the other hand i dont want my kid to learn about evolution or see homosexualisom talked about in a scince classs ethier. <-- From Youguysarepathetic

At least I have a mother. Have you? (serious question) <---From Skylark889

Offline Hermes

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2009, 05:38:07 AM »
I agree ... the comment was also an agreement and an homage to Velkyn.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline jedweber

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2009, 12:30:54 PM »
Wow! You all really do just make up what you want to hear. Is that what the APA said? I believe the APA attempted to say there was no proof the therapy worked. They did not report any conclusive studies proving it was harmful. Please show me such evidence and when you do, I’ll show you the evidence that those who engage in homosexual acts fair worse than heterosexuals when it comes to AIDS, depression, alcohol/drug abuse, and suicide.


How about homosexuals who DON'T engage in homosexual acts? Such as those who turn to ex-gay therapy? If they also suffer from higher rates of depression, substance abuse, and suicide, wouldn't that suggest that it may not be homosexual acts per se that are the determining factor? Can you not accept the possibility that society's attitudes towards homosexuality have an impact on some gay people's mental health? Do you really think that rejection by one's family and friends, casual mockery, ridicule and hostility from a large part of the public, condemnation by religious groups which claim they are "intrinsically disordered" or hell-bound sinners, all have no impact on a person?

Put yourself in a gay person's place for a minute. (Not a person having gay sex, just a person with same-sex attraction, through no choice of your own.) Imagine that you grew up this way and kept it hidden, because you were confused and unsure and tortured by it. Maybe you thought you might "grow out of it." Now imagine telling this to your family, your friends, your co-workers...is this something you would want everyone who knows you to know? Some might be accepting and supportive, can't you imagine that others would not be? Imagine you meet judgmental people like yourself, who tell you that "natural law, logic, science, biology, facts, observation and right reason" all condemn what you are. Can you not see how this would be a painful experience? Can't you have an ounce of human empathy?

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Please show me what the Church teaches that is so awful. The Church believes homosexual acts are wrong. The Church bases its decision on natural law, logic, science, biology, facts, observation and right reason. You believe homosexual acts are good. What do you base such a decision on? I could say atheists are just awful on the issue of homosexuality. Almost as bad as the APA.

You're upset that people are misrepresenting the church, then you make a ridiculous generalization like that? I don't think anyone here said that homosexual acts are intrinsically good. (I certainly didn't.) They aren't, not any more than a heterosexual sex act is automatically good. I can think of many possible scenarios in which a homosexual act may be wrong, or harmful. But you're insisting that they ALL are, always, for everyone. You deny that they can EVER be good for anyone! So two people who love each other, who accept what they are because they haven't chosen it, who are simply seeking human companionship in a loving relationship, are to be denied that for life, and condemned by judgmental outsiders if they seek it. What a heartless and arrogant position. It's not moral, it's the antithesis of morality.

Offline Agent40

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Re: Gay-To-Straight Therapy Repudiated By Psychologists
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2009, 01:47:30 PM »
Nice attempt at dismissing my comments. Is that the best you can do? Attempt to say we really don’t need to take Agent40’s comments seriously because she is Catholic. This is precisely what I was getting at in the first place. Do any of you have any idea how anti-religious you are? I only pointed out to you that many have been helped by what you might refer to as “Christian therapy.” But as usual you are not interested in hearing the truth. You simply insist on telling yourselves that you know better with no acceptance of the facts.

I have nothing but respect for the field of psychology. What I do not have respect for is relying on the opinions of popular culture to determine proper treatment.

I am criticized for challenging science? What science? I would love it if you could show me the science. All I see is opinion based on latest trends.

Popular culture beliefs are not based on science or facts – they are merely reflections of the curtain fashion.

From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_psychology:

The term popular psychology (frequently called pop psychology or pop psych) refers to concepts and theories about human mental life and behaviour that are purportedly based on psychology and that attain popularity among the general population.

See also
·   New Age
·   Folk psychology
·   Psychobabble
·   Self-help


From www.wisegeek.com/what-is-pop-psychology.htm


Pop psychology (short for popular psychology) is a term used to describe various types of mental strategies that may or may not be scientifically proven, but are purportedly designed to improve one’s psychological well-being and promote a healthier life. Pop psychology includes a wide and ever-changing set of theoretical practices popularized by general public acceptance.



From www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/poppsych.html:


Pop Psychology Myths
Kerby Anderson

Here are a couple mentioned . . .

Myth 2: We need more self-esteem and self-worth.
Myth 4: You shouldn't judge anyone.
Myth 5: All guilt is bad.

Please see website for more myths and further explanation of why these predominant “psychological” opinions are just that – ideological opinions not based on facts.

www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/poppsych.html


.from  www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/psych.htm:

To move from description to prescription is to move from objectivity to opinion. And opinion about human behavior, when presented as truth or scientific fact, is mere pseudoscience. It rests upon false premises (opinions, guesses, subjective explanations) and leads to false conclusions.

The dictionary defines pseudoscience as "a system of theories, assumptions, and methods erroneously regarded as scientific." Pseudoscience, or pseudoscientism, includes the use of the scientific label to protect and promote opinions which are neither provable nor refutable.








Good job in avoiding the tough questions. I still have received no answer to these  . . .

Tell me Pinkmilk, what did you think of the personal testimonies of those homosexuals who sing the praises of getting out of their previous homosexual lifestyle? Are they not considered success stories? Tell me, how does psychology determine successful treatment?

Tell me Pinkmilk, do you believe pedophiles can be rehabilitated?

Do you think it should be further studied that childhood abuse might play a role in sexual orientation?

How could a psychologist possibly know that encouraging a homosexual lifestyle would be in a person’s best interest? What science/facts are they basing such a view on?

Please show me any documentation of “Christian therapy” that advises a person struggling with same-sex attraction to marry a person of the opposite sex and their problem will go away.

Please show me evidence that the Church tells those struggling with same-sex attraction to join the priesthood because it means God was calling them to become a priest.

I assume you have evidence of these things. What? No evidence? Shocking!