Author Topic: My Review of "The Goldilocks Enigma"  (Read 4015 times)

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Offline Hermes

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Re: My Review of "The Goldilocks Enigma"
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2008, 12:11:46 PM »
Maybe God made earth as a prison for humanity... I couldn't have done a better job myself.

A slight change would do it.   Drop a thick layer of small asteroids as a haze in low orbit and have them constantly replenished by a moon that showers the area with particulate materials so they can't be swept clean away.  Add in magnetism and/or a charged plasma cloud to make the asteroids 'sticky' and that would keep us penned in for quite a while.  To wrap it up, have the sun go supernova of have the moon slit up and crash into the planet if one probe pierces the asteroid cloud.

Face it; if there is a god out there, and it wants us to stay put, it's not very inventive!
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 04:31:41 PM by Hermes »
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

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Offline Freak

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Re: My Review of "The Goldilocks Enigma"
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2008, 12:51:21 PM »
I dunno, unimaginably vast expanses of nothingness that you couldn't get through in a thousand lifetimes seems like a pretty good blockage.
When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realised, the Lord doesn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

Offline Hermes

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Re: My Review of "The Goldilocks Enigma"
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2008, 04:33:51 PM »
I dunno, unimaginably vast expanses of nothingness that you couldn't get through in a thousand lifetimes seems like a pretty good blockage.

Like deep sea diving, like flight, like the moon, like the solar system itself, we will go there -- even if 'we' are no longer human.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Freak

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Re: My Review of "The Goldilocks Enigma"
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2008, 04:57:37 PM »
I dunno, unimaginably vast expanses of nothingness that you couldn't get through in a thousand lifetimes seems like a pretty good blockage.

Like deep sea diving, like flight, like the moon, like the solar system itself, we will go there -- even if 'we' are no longer human.

I hope so. However you have to keep in mind the magnitude of increased difficulty of travelling to the stars. Even travelling at the fastest we can currently go it would still take almost 1000 generations to reach the nearest star. That's a very, very, very long way. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to live in a Star Trek world or whatever, but we need to keep in mind the immensity of what we are talking about.
When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realised, the Lord doesn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

Offline CosmicScherzo

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Re: My Review of "The Goldilocks Enigma"
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2008, 05:10:38 PM »
Unstable atoms? Couldn't I argue that water is an unstable molecule? Maybe argue about the logic of energy based life instead of atomic based life. (potentially) Wouldn't such life consider the sun a bastion of what they needed?

Water is not an unstable molecule.

What would an energy based life form be like?  How would we know if we'd found one?  On what basis do you call into question the definition of life?

If I tell you that goats can't fly, and you reply that if you call birds goats, then goats can fly, you haven't made a meaningful point.  If I say there are no calories in gamma rays, and you respond that there are, as long as gamma rays are made of cupcakes, you're wasting my time.

You know you're witnessing the death throes of an empty line of reasoning when one needs to abandon the definition of the very thing you're debating just to form a point.

I've lost all interest in this conversation.
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Offline bahramthered

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Re: My Review of "The Goldilocks Enigma"
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2008, 12:10:26 PM »
Nice try. Water is not the univeral constant your trying to make it, just to discredit me. Does water not change form based upon its eviroment? Does not any atom in a star? It's called an alonagy. (spelling?)

I call into question the defination of life based upon the past thrity years of sceince. Just in this time frame places that have life that wouldn't be considered/discovered under the old frame:

Discorvey of enviroments that don't use sunlight (deep sea vents)

Eviroments that use less water/energy than thought possible: Alage like life in death valley

Toxic enviroments (salt, radiation, ect)

eviroments under huge pressure, outside the accepted temprature range of life, without oxygen: Deep presure volcanic vents (sorry can't rember the sceintific name).

All of these have life. Often flourishing. And this is just recently and on our planet. Who knows what is possible. All of these are far fetched a mere few decades ago.

So I ask you this: You are you to limit the defination of life when all who have done so have been proven so wrong?

Get intrested. This is the most relevant conversation the human race will ever have.

Offline kcrady

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Re: My Review of "The Goldilocks Enigma"
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2008, 04:45:07 PM »
If the Cosmos was teeming with "life, Jim, but not as we know it," wouldn't we still see the evidence of its effect on its surroundings?  In accordance with the principles of Conservation of Energy and Entropy, life needs energy to survive, at least while it's active (not in suspended animation).  So far we have not seen any gigantic swarms of space-borne organisms gobbling up all the sunlight they can find (which is good luck for us).  While there still may be microbial life on Mars or some of the other planets, we haven't seen any verdant forests of trees with ammonia sap, etc. on any of the planets we've had a close look at. 

Nor, when we look out on innumerable stars and galaxies, do we see any evidence of Dyson spheres (artificial or natural) or anything else that looks out of equilibrium from the perspective of non-biological physics.  That is, no equivalents of Earth's oxygen atmosphere, which would not exist without plants continually regenerating the oxygen supply.  It all looks exactly like it would if it was not populated.
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Offline johno

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Re: My Review of "The Goldilocks Enigma"
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2008, 04:11:30 AM »
While there still may be microbial life on Mars or some of the other planets, we haven't seen any verdant forests of trees with ammonia sap, etc. on any of the planets we've had a close look at. 

James Lovelock pointed out that there can be no (significant amounts of) life on Mars because its atmosphere is close to chemical equilibrium. I believe that he pointed this out before the first probes were sent to look for life on Mars.

johno