Author Topic: Biblical Contradictions?  (Read 4349 times)

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Offline subtleinspiration

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2010, 10:08:27 AM »
The books, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are called The Gospel Narratives, there is no contradiction, they were written by different people and that's why the last words of Christ on the cross vary. He probably said all of those things but each author included what they thought was important.

Pure speculation.
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Offline Ada-B

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2010, 11:48:18 AM »
I dont know how many times I must say that God is Holy. Yes God is loving but He is also Holy. Yes God knew that many of His creations would spend their eternity there. But God made His creations with free will. He did not want to make robots that worship Him. Its like the love b/tw a husband and wife. They dont force to love each other. they freely love eachother. God wants us to freely love Him, and come to repentance.
The reason why God cant allow sin in His presence, is b/c His nature simply wont allow it. Just like He cant stop loving you and me.

So, cos God wanted us to have free will, he knowingly created us, knowing the majority of us were going to fry for eternity? Sounds a rather self-indulgent wish of the Almighty, to want to have creatures to love him and have free will.

I would have thought a truly loving God would have considered the implications of creating us with free will, and dismissed the idea in order to avoid the necessity of tormenting a great number of us for eternity.

As for your husband and wife analogy, if a man wanted to marry a woman, but knew that by doing so, there was a fair chance she'd suffer eternal torment as a direct result (maybe she had some serious allergy to him), would that be love? I don't think so. In fact, such a man would show more love by walking away. Why didn't God restrain his desire to have non-robots to love him?

Besides, God did like robots, because that, apparently, is what angels are. So a chorus of angels praising him for eternity wasn't enough for him? What kind of narcissist is your God?
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Offline jetson

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2010, 12:03:43 PM »
The books, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are called The Gospel Narratives, there is no contradiction, they were written by different people and that's why the last words of Christ on the cross vary. He probably said all of those things but each author included what they thought was important.

Pure speculation.

Holy moly...no kidding!  Let's start calling the books narratives, as opposed to the inerrant word(s) of God himself.  Whatever makes the Christian happy.  

I call the entire Bible a book of stories.  And you know what, that makes the book perfectly legitimate.  What makes the book a pathetic attempt at creating a new god and controlling and even killing people on its behalf, are the people who consider it real.

Offline Count Iblis

Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2010, 01:05:09 PM »
I dont know how many times I must say that God is Holy. Yes God is loving but He is also Holy. Yes God knew that many of His creations would spend their eternity there. But God made His creations with free will. He did not want to make robots that worship Him. Its like the love b/tw a husband and wife. They dont force to love each other. they freely love eachother. God wants us to freely love Him, and come to repentance.

Back when I was a Christian I met a woman and fell deeply in love with her. I wanted to have a loving personal relationship with her. I wanted to become one flesh, as it were, with her but of course it had to be her choice. I certainly wouldn't want to rape her! So when I asked her for sex and she turned me down, I asked myself "What would Jesus do?" So I threw gasoline on her and set her on fire. To show her how very much I loved her.
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Offline Count Iblis

Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2010, 01:32:33 PM »
I hear Athiest/Agonstic/and Humanist say there are Biblical Contradictions, could you mind showing me a few of them. Im a Christian, and would like to know what you are talking about.

http://www.jdstone.org/cr/files/materror.html

Shows several problems with the Gospel of Matthew. One of my favorites is when Jesus can't get straight which prophet said what.

Quote
Matt. 27:9 – Quoted the wrong prophet ? was not Jeremiah but Zechariah
Religion is an act of sedition against reason.--P.Z. Myers

To find out more about the Evil Atheist Conspiracy visit http://www.atheistthinktank.net/

you know, hell is going to be so jammed full of lying Christians that I fear I will never get in.  --velkyn

Offline Agga

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2010, 03:32:34 PM »
He did not want to make robots that worship Him.

Of course, the moment you bring into the equation, "everlasting life in heaven", this argument falls apart like leaves in a storm.


There'll be no sin in heaven, right?

In which case there won't be any free will, because if one has free will one will sin, right?

In which case we WILL be robots worshipping god.  We’ll be robots worshipping god for ALL ETERNITY.


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Offline Irish

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2010, 04:26:43 PM »
The books, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are called The Gospel Narratives, there is no contradiction, they were written by different people and that's why the last words of Christ on the cross vary. He probably said all of those things but each author included what they thought was important.

Sure, you could say that.  But why is it that one of the most important acts in Christianity, that of Jesus' crucifixtion for all mankinds sins, is written about in three different manners with three different endings of which none overlap or sound similar to each other?

If your argument is that each author included what he thought was important why isn't all of Jesus' last words included?  You would think that the last thing Jesus had to say before dying would be included everywhere in the Bible in full.

And Jesus Freak, where are you at?  I thought you wanted to talk about some Biblical contradictions.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 04:28:18 PM by Irish »
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Offline Sky

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2010, 09:02:45 AM »
The books, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are called The Gospel Narratives, there is no contradiction, they were written by different people and that's why the last words of Christ on the cross vary. He probably said all of those things but each author included what they thought was important.

Sure, you could say that.  But why is it that one of the most important acts in Christianity, that of Jesus' crucifixtion for all mankinds sins, is written about in three different manners with three different endings of which none overlap or sound similar to each other?

If your argument is that each author included what he thought was important why isn't all of Jesus' last words included?  You would think that the last thing Jesus had to say before dying would be included everywhere in the Bible in full.

And Jesus Freak, where are you at?  I thought you wanted to talk about some Biblical contradictions.

I do believe that all of Jesus' words were included within those books. Each book is talking to a different group of people.  The use of narratives to tell a story is actually more intelligent. The use of narratives does not take away from the inerrancy of something, telling it in a narrative fashion can reveal its totality to be inerrant.


   " Narrative meaning is created by establishing that something is a part of a whole and usually that something is the cause of something else. It is usually combined with human actions or events that affect human beings. The meaning of each event is produced by the part it plays in the whole episode.

   "To say what something means is to say how it is related or connected to something else. To ask the meaning of an event is to ask how it contributed to the story in which it occurs. It is the connections or relations between events."

The link I provided was the best explanation I could find to explain what I am trying to say. Look again at the words of Jesus from the text you provided from the Scriptures.

In Matthew He is speaking from the context of His Jewishness, in Luke He is speaking from the context that He is the Son of God, in John He is speaking from the context that He is God that is why He says 'it is finished'. If you look at this closely I believe it helps to reveal His deity. It's really quite marvelous.

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Offline jetson

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2010, 10:41:44 AM »
Sky,

It's not difficult to see what you are trying to say.  It's difficult to blend your opinion in with the rest of the religious communities that completely disagree with you.  It's one thing to say The Bible is the inerrant word of God, and completely another thing to say that The Bible contains narratives from God himself (or his son, depending on what type of Christian you are.)

Do you think that the words in the OT - from God, are actually now narratives from Jesus in the NT?  Or are these two characters, God and Jesus, actually the same entity?




Offline jesuslover

Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2010, 03:00:25 PM »
if the bible is wrong then (as you say), why does every textbook that "modern" day people use get updated when the bible has always been the same forever. and why is the bible the most sold book in the world, 100 million or more Each Year according to wikianswers,

Offline HAL

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2010, 03:02:46 PM »
if the bible is wrong then (as you say), why does every textbook that "modern" day people use get updated

What textbooks? You have to be specific, responding to your assertion is impossible without more specific examples.

Quote
when the bible has always been the same forever. and why is the bible the most sold book in the world, 100 million or more Each Year according to wikianswers,

Wrong. There are many Bibles available now, and they all use different words.

FAIL.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2010, 03:08:13 PM »
if the bible is wrong then (as you say), why does every textbook that "modern" day people use get updated when the bible has always been the same forever.

Pushing aside that the bible has NOT been "always the same forever", why would no update=never wrong?
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2010, 04:28:14 PM »
if the bible is wrong then (as you say), why does every textbook that "modern" day people use get updated when the bible has always been the same forever. and why is the bible the most sold book in the world, 100 million or more Each Year according to wikianswers,

It's always interesting that the bible must be "sold" and the numbers sold are cited by Christians as proof of its validity.  So, is Dianetics almost as good as the bible?  Does this number include all of the never opened bibles in every church and hotel I've ever been in?  If so, how interesting to claim useless texts as evidence of your belief. 
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Offline Irish

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2010, 04:42:07 PM »
why does every textbook that "modern" day people use get updated

Because the new information we attain needs new editions to describe it.

Quote
why is the bible the most sold book in the world, 100 million or more Each Year according to wikianswers,

Argument ad populum to the Bible?  Look, more people watch MTV's Real World than a presentation on NOVA by PBS... does that make the information on the NOVA show any less factual because less people watch it or the show on MTV any more factual because more people watch it?  No it does not.

The Bible may be more popular than, say, Evolution: The Triumph of An Idea by Carl Zimmer but that doesn't make the Bible any more factual and Zimmer's book any less factual.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2010, 04:46:29 PM »
When there are more copies of the Quran (arguably even less changed than the Bible) out there, will that make Islam correct?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Dkit

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2010, 05:31:55 PM »
if the bible is wrong then (as you say), why does every textbook that "modern" day people use get updated when the bible has always been the same forever. and why is the bible the most sold book in the world, 100 million or more Each Year according to wikianswers,

The current consensus among scholars is that verses (16:)9–20 were not part of the original text of Mark but represent a very early addition.

It appears as though the bible has been altered at some point. 

Please explain what is wrong with updating information as our knowledge expands.
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Offline cppman

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2010, 11:05:31 PM »
So which is it?  God was seen or God was not seen?  The Bible says both.
I was curious about that myself, so I asked my theology-major friend about that. He said that no man has ever seen God (including Moses). The only time God appeared to Moses was in some earthly form (like a burning bush). So, according to my friend, God was never seen.

Offline none

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2010, 11:15:03 PM »
So which is it?  God was seen or God was not seen?  The Bible says both.
I was curious about that myself, so I asked my theology-major friend about that. He said that no man has ever seen God (including Moses). The only time God appeared to Moses was in some earthly form (like a burning bush). So, according to my friend, God was never seen.
pfft, apparently the lord appeared to abram, abraham, issac, and a whole community...
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+16:10&version=NIV

Offline cppman

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2010, 11:16:44 PM »
So which is it?  God was seen or God was not seen?  The Bible says both.
I was curious about that myself, so I asked my theology-major friend about that. He said that no man has ever seen God (including Moses). The only time God appeared to Moses was in some earthly form (like a burning bush). So, according to my friend, God was never seen.
pfft, apparently the lord appeared to abram, abraham, issac, and a whole community...
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+16:10&version=NIV
My response still stands.

Offline none

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2010, 11:19:46 PM »
heretic I say.

Offline Emily

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2010, 11:30:39 PM »
Do people claiming to see Jesus count, since he's like God or something...?!?
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Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2010, 11:42:25 PM »
God is loving, but Athiest/Agnostic/Humanist have been told there whole life that God is love and one big teddy bear. He is but He is Holy.

Sorry, but this is a misrepresentation.  I was brought up to believe about your god exactly as you believe.  "God is loving, but He is holy, and can't allow sin around Him," is what I was told from practically day one. So your statement about what atheists,etc. have been told their whole lives is false.  Care to retract that?

And while we're on the subject, a truly "holy" god who is also supposedly omnipotent and omniscient would have not allowed sin in the first place.  There would be no need to allow it because anything an omnipotent god wanted to do would be a mere trifle for him -- he could easily have made a perfect world with perfect people who truly loved and worshipped him because they wanted to (he'd know that because he's omniscient, remember?) and not because they were being forced to.  Instead you have a god who makes a perfect world, allows sin to mess it up, and comes up with a plan to save mankind by sending himself to earth to die as a sacrifice to himself.  Only this plan doesn't even begin to save all of mankind because only a small minority of mankind will be saved by this plan. The rest will have to spend eternity in a horrible place of torture for all eternity because apparently your god isn't powerful enough just to save mankind, he has made the stipulation that you must believe his plan to be saved.  Either this god is really an idiot or he is extremely insecure.  

Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2010, 11:52:17 PM »
I dont know how many times I must say that God is Holy. Yes God is loving but He is also Holy. Yes God knew that many of His creations would spend their eternity there. But God made His creations with free will. He did not want to make robots that worship Him. Its like the love b/tw a husband and wife. They dont force to love each other. they freely love eachother. God wants us to freely love Him, and come to repentance.
The reason why God cant allow sin in His presence, is b/c His nature simply wont allow it. Just like He cant stop loving you and me.

1) Your god is supposedly omniscient.  He would know the motivation behind the worship.  An omniscient god has no need to give his followers free will. Think about it.
2) Your god is supposedly omnipotent.  He would be able to create beings that would worship him that would not be robots.  Again, free will unnecessary.  Think about it.
3) Your god is supposedly loving and holy.  I get that.  That kind of god would not have allowed sin in the first place and would not have created a place of eternal torment.  Think about it.
Now, putting it all together -- the god of the bible is not the omniscient, omnipotent, holy, loving god you think he is.  Biblegod does things that a being with those characteristics simply would not do.

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2010, 12:22:14 AM »
Judas Iscariot’s death (The betrayer of Jesus). Did he hang himself or did he just fall face forward and die?
(Mat 27:5 NRSV) Throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself.
(Acts 1:18 NRSV) Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.




Jesus promises a criminal on a cross next to him that they will be in heaven together that particular day. Other verses that are probably embellishments by the gospel authors state that he is to stay dead for three days in the heart of the earth and then ascend to heaven later.
(Mat 12:40 NRSV) For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
(Context: Jesus is hanging on a cross talking with a criminal hanging on another cross)
(Luke 23:42-43 NRSV) Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." He replied, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."




Two contradicting versions of Paul’s Damascus Road conversion. Did his companions hear the voice or didn’t they?
(Acts 9:7 NRSV) The men who were traveling with him stood speechless because they “heard the voice” but saw no one.
(Acts 22:9 NRSV) Now those who were with me saw the light but “did not hear” the voice of the one who was speaking to me.



Is a person saved by grace or are works also required? Paul and James seem to disagree on this.
James: (James 2:24 NRSV) You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Paul: (Gal 2:16 NRSV) yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.
James: (James 2:17 NRSV) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
Paul: (Titus 3:5 NRSV) he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, …
James: (James 2:20 NRSV) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren?
Paul: (Rom 3:28 NRSV) For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law.
James: (James 2:14 NRSV) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?
Paul: (Rom 4:5 NRSV) But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness.





The author of Hebrews contradicts Paul on how many sons Abraham had.
In one letter Paul says Abraham had two sons, in the another letter the author of Hebrews (possibly Paul or someone else) says Abraham offered for human sacrifice his “only” son.
Abraham had (Gen 16:15) Ishmael and (Gen 21:2) Isaac. Notice that Ishmael was born first, when Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac he had two sons at that time.
(Here Paul says Abraham has two sons)
(Gal 4:22 NRSV) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and the other by a free woman.
(Here the author of Hebrewis says "only" son)
(Heb 11:17 NRSV) By faith Abraham, when put to the test, offered up Isaac. He who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son,
Note that the author(s) of Genesis contradict themselves on this matter. Here Abraham’s two sons are mention: the first-born Ishmael and Issac.
(Gen 17:19 NRSV) God said, "No, but your wife Sarah shall bear you a son, and you shall name him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring after him.
(Gen 17:20 NRSV) As for Ishmael, I have heard you; I will bless him and make him fruitful and exceedingly numerous; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.
Here an author of Genesis refers to the second born Isaac as Abraham’s "only son":
(Gen 22:12 NRSV) He said, "Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me."
(Thanks to Curt van den Heuve for pointing out the contradiction within the book of Genesis itself)




The authors of Matthew and Luke don’t agree about when the transfiguration was supposed to have occurred.
(Mat 16:28-17:2 NRSV) Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man *coming* in his kingdom."
*Six days later*, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. And he was transfigured before them,…
(Luke 9:27-29 NRSV) But truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."
Now about *eight days*
after these sayings Jesus took with him Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. And while he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became dazzling white.




The authors of Matthew and John disagree on Jesus’ robe color.
(Mat 27:28-29 NRSV) They stripped him and put a “scarlet” robe on him, and after twisting some thorns into a crown, they put it on his head. They put a reed in his right hand and knelt before him and mocked him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!"
The Greek word for scarlet here is kokkinos:G2847
2847. kokkinos, kok’-kee-nos; from G2848 (from the kernel-shape of the insect);
crimson-colored:–scarlet (colour, coloured).       cont’d:    
(John 19:2-3 NRSV) And the soldiers wove a crown of thorns and put it on his head, and they dressed him in a “purple” robe. They kept coming up to him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" and striking him on the face.
The Greek word for purple here is porphurous:G4210
4210. porphurous, por-foo-rooce’; from G4209; purpureal:–purple.




The authors of Mark and John disagree about whether Jesus carried his own cross.
(Mark 15:20-24 NRSV) …
Then they led him out to crucify him. *They compelled a passer-by*, who was coming in from the country, *to carry his cross*; it was Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus. Then they brought Jesus to the place called Golgotha (which means the place of a skull). And they offered him wine mixed with myrrh; but he did not take it. And they crucified him…
(John 19:16-18 NRSV) Then he handed him over to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus; *and carrying the cross by himself*, he went out to what is called The Place of the Skull, which in Hebrew is called Golgotha. There they crucified him…




The author of Matthew contradicts the author of Mark on the number of animals Jesus is riding into Jerusalem.
(Mat 21:7 NRSV) they brought the donkey and the colt, and put their cloaks on them, and he sat on “them”.
(Mark 11:7 NRSV) Then they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks on it; and he sat on
“it”.




The authors of Matthew and Mark contradict each other about when the fig tree withered (at once or the next morning):
(Mat 21:19-20 NRSV) And seeing a fig tree by the side of the road, (Jesus) he went to it and found nothing at all on it but leaves. Then he said to it, "May no fruit ever come from you again!" And the fig tree “withered at once.”
When the disciples saw it, they were amazed, saying, "How did the fig tree “wither at once?”
(Mark 11:14 NRSV) (Jesus) He said to it, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard it.
(Mark 11:19-21 NRSV) And when evening came, Jesus and his disciples went out of the city. “In the morning” as they passed by, they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots.
Then Peter remembered and said to him, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered."




Was Jesus crucified in the morning or the afternoon? The authors of Mark and John contradict each other.
(Mark 15:25 NRSV) It was
*nine o’clock in the morning* when they crucified him.
(John 19:14-16 NRSV) Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and *it was about noon*. He said to the Jews, "Here is your King!"
They cried out, "Away with him! Away with him! Crucify him!" Pilate asked them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but the emperor."
Then he handed him over to them to be crucified. So they took Jesus;



 
How many stalls of horses did Solomon have? 4 or 40 thousand?
(1 Ki 4:26 NRSV) Solomon also had *forty* thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
The Hebrew word for forty here is ‘arba’iym
705. ‘arba’iym, ar-baw-eem’;
multiple of H702; forty:–forty.
(2 Chr 9:25 NRSV) Solomon had *four* thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horses,
The Hebrew word for four here is arba:
702. ‘arba’, ar-bah’;
masc. ‘arba’ah, ar-baw-aw’; from H7251; four:–four.




Chronicles and Kings contradict each other.
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign? forty-two or twenty-two?
(2 Chr 22:2 NRSV) Ahaziah was forty-two years old when he began to reign; he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Athaliah, a granddaughter of Omri.
The Hebrew word for forty here is ‘arba’iym (Sound familiar?)
705. ‘arba’iym, ar-baw-eem’; multiple of H702; forty:–forty.
(2 Ki 8:26 NRSV) Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he began to reign; he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Athaliah, a granddaughter of King Omri of Israel.
Hebrew word for twenty here is ‘esriym:H6242
6242. ‘esriym, es-reem’;
from H6235; twenty; also (ordinal) twentieth: –[six-] score, twenty (-ieth)




Did the vegetation come before or after man was created? Genesis chapter one (the first creation myth) disagrees with chapter 2 (the second creation myth).
(The Elohist’s creation story says the *plants came first*)
(Gen 1:12 NRSV) The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed of every kind, and trees of every kind bearing fruit with …
(Later that week in the Elohist’s creation story)
(Gen 1:26 NRSV) Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image,…
(The Yawist’s creation story says that *man came first*)
(Gen 2:5-7 NRSV) when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up–for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground; … then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, …




The two different Genesis creation myths don’t agree on the order of creation of man and animals.
(Elohist - Animals then man)
(Gen 1:24 NRSV) And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind." And it was so.
(Gen 1:27 NRSV) So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
(Yahwist - Man then animals)
(Gen 2:7 NRSV) then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being.     cont’d:
(Gen 2:19 NRSV) So out of the ground the LORD God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.




The Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts contradict each other about how long Jesus hung around after he was supposed to have resurrected. Acts says 40 days and the Gospel of Luke says 1 day.
(Acts says 40 days)
(Acts 1:3 NRSV) After his suffering he presented himself alive to them by many convincing proofs, appearing to them during *forty days* and speaking about the kingdom of God.
(Gospel of Luke says 1 day)
(Luke 24:1 NRSV) But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb,
(Luke 24:13 NRSV) Now on that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem,
(Jesus appears to them)
(Luke 24:15 NRSV) While they were talking and discussing, Jesus himself came near and went with them,
(Luke 24:29 NRSV) But they urged him strongly, saying, "Stay with us, because it is almost evening and the day is now nearly over." So he went in to stay with them.
(After eating super…)
(Luke 24:33 NRSV) That same hour they got up and returned to Jerusalem;
(Luke 24:50-52 NRSV) Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and, lifting up his hands, he blessed them.
While he was blessing them, he withdrew from them and was carried up into heaven. And they worshiped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.
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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2010, 12:22:28 AM »
The Bible contradicts itself about whether any man has ever seen God.
(The author of the Gospel of John and Paul the Apostle say no one has *ever* seen God)
(John 1:18 NRSV) *No one has ever seen God*…
(1 Tim 6:16 NRSV)
…*whom no one has ever seen or can see*;
(Here Moses sees the God’s backside)
(Exo 33:20 NRSV) But," he said, "you cannot see my face; for no one shall see me and live."
(Exo 33:23 NRSV) then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back; but my face shall not be seen."
(And here Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, Issac, Jacob, and Amos get a full frontal view)
(Exo 24:9-10 NRSV) Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
(Gen 26:2 NRSV) The LORD appeared to Isaac and said…
(Gen 32:30 NRSV) So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved."
(Amos 9:1 NRSV) I saw the LORD standing beside the altar…





The author of Matthew and the author of Luke contradict each other on their lists of 12 disciples.
The author of Luke has Judas the son of James instead of the author of Matthew’s Thaddaeus.
(Luke 6:13-16 NRSV) And when day came, he called his disciples and chose twelve of them, whom he also named apostles:
Simon, whom he named Peter, and his brother Andrew, and James, and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James son of Alphaeus, and Simon, who was called the Zealot, and Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.
(Mat 10:2-4 NRSV) These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon, also known as Peter, and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed him.




The author of Matthew and the author Luke composed completely different birth stories for Jesus.
The gospels of Matthew and Luke were written ~70 years after Jesus was supposed to have been born.
It is probably not a well known fact, but Christian tradition has combined the two stories of the gospel of Matthew and the gospel of Luke to form the story told at Christmas time today (gospels of Mark and John have nothing to say about Jesus’ birth).
But the stories in the gospel of Matthew and the gospel of Luke only agree on 2 points:
1) Mary and Joseph are the parents
2) Jesus was born in Bethlehem (placed there to make him look messianic)
Otherwise they are completely different.
(from the first two chapters of the gospels Matthew and Luke)




The author of Luke’s genealogy doesn’t match the one in Genesis.
(Note: Arphaxad is Arpachshad)
(Luke 3:35-36 NRSV) …
son of Shelah, son of Cainan, son of Arphaxad, …
(Gen 11:12 NRSV) When Arpachshad had lived thirty-five years, he became the father of Shelah;




The bible contradicts itself on how old Abram was when he left Haran.
205 Terah’s age when he died 70 Terah’s age when Abram was born —- 135 How old Abram was when Terah died
The Bible says that Abram was 75 years old when he left Haran *after* Terah died.
(Gen 11:26 NRSV) When Terah had lived seventy years, he became the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
(Gen 11:32 NRSV) The days of Terah were two hundred five years; and Terah died in Haran.
(Gen 12:4 NRSV) So Abram went, as the LORD had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.
(Acts 7:4 NRSV) …After his father died, God had him move from there (Haran) to this country in which you are now living.




The author of Numbers says God does not change his mind. The prophet Jeremiah says he does.
(Num 23:19 NRSV) God is not a human being, that he should lie, or a mortal, that he should change his mind.
Has he promised, and will he not do it? Has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
(Jer 26:19 NRSV) …and did not the LORD change his mind about the disaster that he had pronounced against them? …




In their accounts on a census of Israel, the census numbers of 1 Chronicles and 2 Samual do not agree.
Israel Judah 1 Chronicles says: 1,100,000 470,000 soldiers. 2 Samual says: 800,000 500,000 soldiers.
(1 Chr 21:5 NRSV) Joab gave the total count of the people to David. In all Israel there were one million one hundred thousand men who drew the sword, and in Judah four hundred seventy thousand who drew the sword.
(2 Sam 24:9 NRSV) Joab reported to the king the number of those who had been recorded: in Israel there were eight hundred thousand soldiers able to draw the sword, and those of Judah were five hundred thousand.




How old was Jehoiachin when he started to reign?
2 Kings says he was eighteen and 2 Chronicles says he was only eight.
(2 Ki 24:8 NRSV) Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign; …
(The Hebrew words for 18 are "shemoneh" for 8 and "asar" making the number 18)
083. shemoneh, shem-o-neh’; or shemowneh, shem-o-neh’; fem. shemonah, shem-o-naw’; or shemownah, shem-o-naw’; appar. from H8082 through the idea of plumpness; a cardinal number, eight (as if a surplus above the "perfect" seven);
also (as ordinal) eighth:–eight ([-een, -eenth]), eighth.
6240. ‘asar, aw-sawr’;
for H6235; ten (only in combination),i.e. -teen; also (ordinal)
-teenth;–[eigh-, fif-, four-, nine-, seven-, six-, thir-] teen (-th), + eleven
(-th), + sixscore thousand, + twelve (-th).
(2 Chr 36:9 NRSV) Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign; …
(The Hebrew word for 8 here is again "shemoneh" but the accompanying word "asar" that would make it 18 is missing, beware, the NIV mistranslates this as eighteen to avoid the contradiction)




How many men did Kind David’s warrior Jashobeam kill at one time (with just a spear no less)? One account says he "only" killed three hundred and the other says eight hundred.
(1 Chr 11:11 NRSV) This is an account of David’s mighty warriors: Jashobeam, son of Hachmoni, was chief of the Three; he wielded his spear against three hundred whom he killed at one time.
(2 Sam 23:8 NRSV) These are the names of the warriors whom David had: Josheb-basshebeth a Tahchemonite; he was chief of the Three; he wielded his spear against eight hundred whom he killed at one time.




1 Chronicles says that Satan incited King David to take a census and 2 Samuel says God incited him.
(2 Sam 24:1 NRSV) Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go, count the people of Israel and Judah."
(1 Chr 21:1 NRSV) Satan stood up against Israel, and incited David to count the people of Israel.




1 Samuel says David killed Goliath and 2 Samuel says Elhanan did.
(1 Sam 17:50 NRSV) So David prevailed over the Philistine (Goliath) with a sling and a stone, striking down the Philistine and killing him; there was no sword in David’s hand.
(2 Sam 21:19 NRSV) Then there was another battle with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.




How many chief officers did Solomon put in charge of building his temple?
2 Chronicles says two hundred fifty, 1 Kings says five hundred fifty.
(2 Chr 8:10 NRSV) These were the chief officers of King Solomon, two hundred fifty of them, who exercised authority over the people.
(1 Ki 9:23 NRSV) These were the chief officers who were over Solomon’s work: five hundred fifty, who had charge of the people who carried on the work.




How many pomegranates for Solomon’s mythical temple? 2 Chron says one hundred, 1 Kings says two hundred.
(2 Chr 3:16 NRSV) He made encircling chains and put them on the tops of the pillars; and he made one hundred pomegranates, and put them on the chains.
(1 Ki 7:20 NRSV) The capitals were on the two pillars and also above the rounded projection that was beside the latticework; there were two hundred pomegranates in rows all around; and so with the other capital.




Were both robbers crucified with Jesus taunting him or was only one of them mocking him and the other repenting?
The author of Matthew and the author of Mark disagree with the author of Luke.
(Luke 23:33 NRSV) …they crucified Jesus there with the criminals, one on his right and one on his left.
(So we have Jesus in the middle of two robbers, three crucifixions)
(Mat 27:41-45 NRSV) In the same way the chief priests also, along with the scribes and elders, were mocking him, saying,
"He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him….
*The bandits who were crucified with him also taunted him in the same way.*
From noon on, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon.
(Luke 23:39-44 NRSV) *One of the criminals* who were hanged there kept deriding him and saying, "Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us!"
But the *other* rebuked him, saying, "Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong."      cont’d:
Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." He replied, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon.




The three synoptic gospels have John the Baptist recognized as Elijah (in some places by Jesus),
but the author of the gospel of John has John the Baptist saying he is not Elijah.
(Mat 17:12 NRSV) but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but they did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man is about to suffer at their hands."
(Mat 17:13 NRSV) Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them about John the Baptist.
(John 1:21 NRSV) And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He (John the Baptist) said, "I am not." "Are you the prophet?" He answered, "No."
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2010, 10:11:20 AM »
My response still stands.

This is your response
Quote
I was curious about that myself, so I asked my theology-major friend about that. He said that no man has ever seen God (including Moses). The only time God appeared to Moses was in some earthly form (like a burning bush). So, according to my friend, God was never seen.
and it's wrong. 

Quote
Exodus 33:18 Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."

 19 And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

 21 Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."

And Deuteronomy 34 certain indicates that there was God there that talked to Moses and then buried him.  Does this make sense if God was never seen? Only if you want to claim God is less than omnipotent and likes to play hide and seek. 

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Offline cppman

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2010, 01:30:48 PM »
And Deuteronomy 34 certain indicates that there was God there that talked to Moses and then buried him.  Does this make sense if God was never seen? Only if you want to claim God is less than omnipotent and likes to play hide and seek.  
If you are claiming that God has been seen, then you need to explain the contradictions. A friend of mine concluded that God has not been seen except in a different form (either as fire, a burning bush, a shining cloud, etc.) And of course, as my "theologian"-friend yelled at me about: you have to take the entire book as a whole (along with the history, who wrote it, who is speaking, who the person is speaking to, etc.), not single, out of a context, passages.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 01:34:23 PM by cppman »

Offline velkyn

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Re: Biblical Contradictions?
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2010, 03:55:00 PM »
And Deuteronomy 34 certain indicates that there was God there that talked to Moses and then buried him.  Does this make sense if God was never seen? Only if you want to claim God is less than omnipotent and likes to play hide and seek.  
If you are claiming that God has been seen, then you need to explain the contradictions. A friend of mine concluded that God has not been seen except in a different form (either as fire, a burning bush, a shining cloud, etc.) And of course, as my "theologian"-friend yelled at me about: you have to take the entire book as a whole (along with the history, who wrote it, who is speaking, who the person is speaking to, etc.), not single, out of a context, passages.

really, what do you think they are?  I haven't seen any.  Your friend concluded wrong by the first verse I posted, Exodus 33.  I am curious why didn't mention that one at all when it was right there.  And ah, context, which is always what the believer gets to determine, no one else.  I do look at it in context, the sentence, the paragraph, the chapter, the book and the whole bible, plus anthropology, psychiatry, culture, etc. 
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