Author Topic: Conversation [#1567]  (Read 348 times)

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Offline DL

Conversation [#1567]
« on: July 10, 2009, 09:20:54 PM »
Apologies for the long message...

I have been watching a few of your videos lately and I felt like I should write you a message. I am not the kind of person looking to have a totally mindless conversation on religion as I am sure you have gotten before posting videos like this. However, if you wouldn't mind taking a little bit of time to discuss your beliefs/statements that would be greatly appreciated. I will do my best to be an "Intelligent Christian".

First of all, with regard to your arguments presented on your videos, I have found a few holes in your arguments and I will try to back them up with Scripture to the best of my ability. Off the top of my head these errors could be fixed by reading some of the verses in context, or by reading other parts of the Bible in cross-reference. Also, when you are reading, take into account the audience to which the speaker is speaking to, many times that will give you an increased understanding at the point that is trying to be made.

For example, with your statement on how Jesus does not return to us in person: Mark 16:19 says, "After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God." You can see this again in Luke 24:51, and Acts 1:1-11.

When Christians say that they "are experiencing Jesus", they are referring to the Holy Spirit, which brings me to the belief in the Trinity, or God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I do not know how familiar you are with this but descriptions of it all over the New Testament especially.

With your reference to Matthew 18:19-20, on Jesus answering all of your prayers, with friends, whatever that may be, that is Jesus is telling them that God is a giving God. This does not mean if you pray to win the lottery its going to happen, because your motives are wrong "When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures'' (James 4:3 NIV). The Bible is full of examples where "ask, and you shall receive," are said, yet this has puzzled many people, like yourself, when prayers seem to go unanswered.

My other explanation for this I am sure would go under your list of "excuses, " but the more I pursue the Lord and try and learn as much about God, the Bible, and everything related to it, the more I am humbled to know that I am facing an impossible task of learning everything. We serve a God that is too great to be confined by human knowledge and we can only scratch the surface of his wisdom. I do not know all the answers, nor will I ever know them, nor will anyone else. I do not understand why God chooses to do some of the things that he does, however I take comfort in the fact that regardless of what happens, God will provide and take care of his children (see Romans 8:28, Jeremiah 29:11).

Frankly, I would much rather put my life in the hands of my creator, who is good, rather than take my chances on my own (which I have tried to do, trust me).

I can sense your frustration with Christianity/the Bible/Jesus and really just Christians in general. I understand that these beliefs do not always seem to be logical, but that does not make them to not be true!

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to hearing your response.

[name]

Offline Nick

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Re: Conversation [#1567]
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 09:45:50 PM »
It seems that many Christians use religion as a crutch and they like to beat others with that crutch.  Many of us at this site were Christians for many years.  Some even preachers.  We took the blinders off and use rational thought to guide us.  We no longer need an imaginary sky daddy to watch our every move and life is much better as a result of clear thinking skills.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Conversation [#1567]
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 09:52:38 PM »
Emailer,

What objective measure do you use to interpret the bible? Why is your interpretation correct and others (like the website author's) wrong?

Refer to the objective criteria in your answer.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline voodoo child

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Re: Conversation [#1567]
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 10:10:26 PM »
It is not just Christianity it is all religions

Where did you hear about god? Your parents. how do you know the bible is true? your parents told you. You love your parents don’t you? So you would believe anything they said? Am I right?

With over ten thousand religions on this planet all praying to ten thousand different gods
Are you sure? Your parents are praying to the right god.

6000 thousand years ago on an island next to the west coast of Canada lived a primitive tribe almost like the tribe of people contained in the bible. Remember the story of Adam and eve.

A long time ago, a giant raven was bored silly with his surroundings, he decided that he would pick a giant clam out of the ocean, place it on the beach and let the first people out.
The raven spoke; NOW go forth and populate this island!   The raven took a big dump on the beach and flew away never to be heard from again.. until he stole the sun.

Right about that time supposedly there was a flood yet Vancouver Island shows no evidence of a flood.

And that would be the 10thosanth and one creationist story that’s on this planet

What makes you think yours is the right one. Or should you be praying to my big black raven god that does nothing says nothing and spews out crap.

The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline GotMooo

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Re: Conversation [#1567]
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 05:20:23 AM »
Quote
these errors could be fixed by reading some of the verses in context

Deuteronomy 13

13:6
    If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known,

13:7
    gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other),

13:8
    do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him.

13:9
    You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.

13:10
    Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Explain that in context.  What I get out of it is biblical intolerance of people who don't share your beliefs.  Even if you read the loving things Jesus Christ said later on in the New Testament, how do you reconcile it with this?

I don't want to hear, "It was okay in that cultural context".  People back then wanted to believe in what they wanted to believe in without getting killed...
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 05:23:47 AM by GotMooo »

Offline HAL

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Re: Conversation [#1567]
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 07:07:07 AM »
This does not mean if you pray to win the lottery its going to happen, because your motives are wrong

Fail.

How would you know my motives for wanting to win the lottery? Maybe I want to give the proceeds to a cancer fund. Maybe I need surgery and don't have the money.

Or to turn it around, what motives are acceptable for your deity to enable a lottery win?

Offline Seank

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Re: Conversation [#1567]
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 08:53:04 AM »
The mail is just the usual game of scripture pingpong. Person a cites scripture to prove x, but person b refutes this with contradictory scripture. However, they rarely explain why we should accept person b's scripture, since it's not specifically addressing person a's scripture, it's merely contradicting it.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 10:11:05 AM by Seank »
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Offline kin hell

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Re: Conversation [#1567]
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 09:06:14 AM »
Quote
Frankly, I would much rather put my life in the hands of my creator, who is good, rather than take my chances on my own (which I have tried to do, trust me).

Yes mate and so do all the others who don't care to shoulder personal responsibility for their lives, good or bad, brave or cowardly, etc etc.

The great escape.
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Pastafarian

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Re: Conversation [#1567]
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 09:41:43 AM »
Quote
Frankly, I would much rather put my life in the hands of my creator, who is good, rather than take my chances on my own (which I have tried to do, trust me).

Yes mate and so do all the others who don't care to shoulder personal responsibility for their lives, good or bad, brave or cowardly, etc etc.

The great escape.

True. Plus, we're all in this together. No-one needs to go it alone  :)
Don't pin that on jesus! He has enough nail holes as it is - House