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Offline MattInAsia

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And 10 answers
« on: August 13, 2008, 04:16:40 AM »


Why doesn't God heal amputees?

I had to laugh when I saw this question.  It's a creative way of looking at it.  The problem posed deals more with a problem with the Theological premise than it does anything else.  The premises brought up initially are unfair: the idea that God cures cancers and other diseases.

What we really should seek with prayer is strength.  We can ask for strength for other people, for ourselves, or strength for a group.  We can ask that people remain focus and that they are carried through a particular situation.  It's fair to say that these prayers work on some levelto bring people strength.  Even for an atheist, it would be silly to say that knowing people care and are concerned for you and are thinking about you would not bring positive changes.

I don't believe a strong disposition will be the end all cure to diseases, but I believe it surely helps.  I am sure there are a ton of research studies that show a person with a good disposition is more likely to heal than a person without that.

What this means for a theist is simply we believe that there is some sort of connection that a prayer, even a silent one that nobody else knows about, helps that person. 

Although it is a popular misconception, few formal Christian Theologies will say God is a vending machine where we can put in enough money...in this case, prayers...and get whatever we want, whether it's a magical cure for cancer or our rent money.  There are people that believe this to be true and obviously churches that do as well.  But if you read over what Theology really talks about, you will see that this is a false premise to start from, but it is something that helps the prayer feel better.

________________________________________

Why are there so many starving people in our world?

This, again, goes back to the vending machine idea of God, which is a false premise.  The reason there are so many starving people in the world is simple:  We ignore our duty given to us to help those people.

We pray for God to give us a solution.  When we're provided with that solution, we simply say, "Oh...well...I didn't realize I would have to sacrifice as well."

_____________________________________

Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?

You would almost have to take this on a verse by verse basis on some cases.  Your question centers more around what was happening in the historical context of the times?  It is silly for an atheist, of all people, to deny that the Bible was written in a historical context.  Generally speaking, histories about wars are written in the point of view of the victor....at least the stories that survive a long time.

The verses provided by this video actually deal with verses of the law.  What we have to take into consideration, again, is a historical context.  Many laws changed for the better, some remained terrible, and some got worse with Jewish law.  Right now, our government might kill a person who is mentally retarded and don't understand that he killed a person.  Is this really very much of an improvement?

When we begin to see that laws, good and bad, change over time, we begin to be less critical of laws of previous nations and can begin to focus on our own self.  Criticizing what people viewed as right or wrong 3000 years ago won't really help us much right now.  As a person studying Scripture, we must understand these laws to see how they developed, changed, and were adapted from other familiar laws.  Obviously, there were problems such as capital punishment for things we see now as trivial.  But there were also many improvements on the laws that we can see that we might misinterpret.  "An eye for an eye" is a much better law than "if someone takes your eye, take their life."

______________________________________________

Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?

Um...because it's not a science book.  It's a mythical book.  They used the understanding of the world at the time, but it's not a science book.

That question doesn't even deserve to be in this one with the rest of the good questions.  I'm kind of disappointed he asked it in this good video.

______________________________________________

Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the Bible?

The first verse cited:
Exodus 21:20-21  :  Again, it seems to be moving more towards freedom of slavery, does it not?  While it cites slaves as property, it also gives them certain rights as humans.  See the discussion above about how laws and customs change over time.

And, in fact, slavery was often done rather than death, which was much more common when taking over a city.

Examples like the Exodus verse show how a movement towards slave rights may have been started with Scripture.   Any person with common sense can see that.

and so on....

_______________________________________________

Why do bad things happen to good people?

Why should they not happen?

_______________________________________________

Why didn't any of Jesus's (fixed the typo for you) miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence?

What kind of evidence do you expect from someone walking on water?  Water footprints that have fossilized?  Aren't we missing the point of the science question?  (Sorry...this question didn't really seem to make a lot of sense to me once I thought about it).

_______________________________________________

How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?

Again, disappointed that this question is in here.  You seem to think I would expect Jesus to appear to me.  That doesn't fit into Theological thought.

_______________________________________________

Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?

It's a great question.  That is imagery used from the Passover feast.  What Jesus is essentially saying here is when we gather as a community to celebrate this feast, we are taking in part of who Jesus is.  We all share in this ritual.

There was a great movie out a while ago.  I can't remember the name of it, but we watched it in one of my theology classes to help us better understand the Communal Celebration.  It had an entire town that was arguing with each other and one lady in it who was a fantastic cook.  The townspeople did not like this because they thought tasty food was a sin (or something like that).  They also argued about everything else.  She finally has them at a meal and they start arguing, but throughout the meal, the tone completely changes.  They might disagree, but they're still sharing in that food and community experience.

There's an image that food becomes a part of us.  So if we really think of the eucharistic celebration as taking in Jesus as a community and sharing in an experience, we can see where the parallels are in the imagery.

_______________________________________________

Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?

I don't know.  You'll have to discuss that with people who are getting divorced.  Most rational people don't lump a problem as large as divorce as being an "all people do it for this exact reason." 

Hope that helps!
Matt

Offline MrFriday

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2008, 04:32:42 AM »
Clear as mud. If you have no basis for understanding the questions, don't bother answering.
"Faith is believing in something you know isn't true" - Mark Twain

Offline MattInAsia

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2008, 04:39:08 AM »
Clear as mud. If you have no basis for understanding the questions, don't bother answering.

Psstt...Friday.  The point is that he's asked questions to all Christians without even considering what Christian Theology is about.  He's directed questions really for Fundamentalists without considering the fact that not all Christians are fundamentalists.

Maybe I understand the basis for understanding the questions better than thou...

Offline Airyaman

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2008, 05:27:01 AM »
Clear as mud. If you have no basis for understanding the questions, don't bother answering.

Psstt...Friday.  The point is that he's asked questions to all Christians without even considering what Christian Theology is about.  He's directed questions really for Fundamentalists without considering the fact that not all Christians are fundamentalists.

Maybe I understand the basis for understanding the questions better than thou...

Well, the very first question is aimed straight at the bible. Why do you suppose the authors of the gospels and other NT books so often speak of the power of prayer to heal and perform miracles? You are wise to realize it doesn't work that way, but you must toss some of your precious book in that case.
I've been struggling with racism lately. I recently came to the realization that I tend to dislike people with fake orange skin and stubby fingers.

Offline MrFriday

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2008, 11:44:13 AM »
Clear as mud. If you have no basis for understanding the questions, don't bother answering.

Psstt...Friday.  The point is that he's asked questions to all Christians without even considering what Christian Theology is about.  He's directed questions really for Fundamentalists without considering the fact that not all Christians are fundamentalists.

Maybe I understand the basis for understanding the questions better than thou...
Pssst...smart ass, you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about.
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Offline Vynn

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2008, 11:50:12 AM »
Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?

Um...because it's not a science book.  It's a mythical book.  They used the understanding of the world at the time, but it's not a science book.

That question doesn't even deserve to be in this one with the rest of the good questions.  I'm kind of disappointed he asked it in this good video.


The bible claims to be "god's word" and "perfect". This book then contains many falsehoods, lies, and contradictions. When it makes scientific claims that are wrong, it brings into question any and all statements it makes. (If we know it to be wrong in ways that can be tested and measured, might it then be wrong in ways we cannot test or measure?) -- Of course. We CAN NOT believe the bible for the same reason we cannot trust the medicine in a bottle whose seal is broken when we unscrew the bottle cap.

Offline Former Believer

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2008, 12:29:20 PM »
Clear as mud. If you have no basis for understanding the questions, don't bother answering.

Psstt...Friday.  The point is that he's asked questions to all Christians without even considering what Christian Theology is about.  He's directed questions really for Fundamentalists without considering the fact that not all Christians are fundamentalists.

So Matt, are you a Christian who believes that the Bible is filled with myths and errors?  If this is the case, I would ask you this:

Why would God, if he had an important message he wanted to communicate to us, allow it to be corrupted by fallible humans?
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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 02:17:41 PM »
Quote
I had to laugh when I saw this question.  It's a creative way of looking at it.  The problem posed deals more with a problem with the Theological premise than it does anything else.  The premises brought up initially are unfair: the idea that God cures cancers and other diseases.
What we really should seek with prayer is strength.  We can ask for strength for other people, for ourselves, or strength for a group.  We can ask that people remain focus and that they are carried through a particular situation.  It's fair to say that these prayers work on some levelto bring people strength.  Even for an atheist, it would be silly to say that knowing people care and are concerned for you and are thinking about you would not bring positive changes.
Oh, is it unfair that your God/Jesus said that he has healed people of harm in your Bible and that his followers will even do better magic? Sorry, that's what your Bible promises if one asks it of God.  Again, you try to claim that God doesn't give yuo what is asked but he says that he will not, that a father would not give his son a snake if asked for a fish.  You also seem to be sayign that no one prays "right".  As for prayer, jus what do you think prayer does?  Reminds God to do something?  Commands God to do it? 
And it is silly to say knowing people care and are concerned for you makes a difference.  Studies have been done and it doesn't make any more difference than a placebo does: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msciprayer.html
Quote
I don't believe a strong disposition will be the end all cure to diseases, but I believe it surely helps.  I am sure there are a ton of research studies that show a person with a good disposition is more likely to heal than a person without that
No suprise, but what you are 'sure' of isn't true. 
Quote
What this means for a theist is simply we believe that there is some sort of connection that a prayer, even a silent one that nobody else knows about, helps that person. 
Although it is a popular misconception, few formal Christian Theologies will say God is a vending machine where we can put in enough money...in this case, prayers...and get whatever we want, whether it's a magical cure for cancer or our rent money.  There are people that believe this to be true and obviously churches that do as well.  But if you read over what Theology really talks about, you will see that this is a false premise to start from, but it is something that helps the prayer feel better.

Christian theologies are intended to explain why the Bible doesn't mean what it clearly says.  All are to make "you" the "OneTrueChristiantm". 

Sorry, but SSDD.

EDIT:
Study: Attitude Can't Overcome Cancer
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/22/health/webmd/main3393759.shtml
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 02:21:38 PM by velkyn »
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Offline MattInAsia

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2008, 12:23:23 AM »

Oh, is it unfair that your God/Jesus said that he has healed people of harm in your Bible and that his followers will even do better magic? Sorry, that's what your Bible promises if one asks it of God.

If we think of it with that premise, yes...I am saying it is unfair.  That's my whole point.  So we cannot think of it in that way.

Quote
  You also seem to be sayign that no one prays "right".  As for prayer, jus what do you think prayer does?  Reminds God to do something?  Commands God to do it? 

It's a conversation.
Never said no one prays "right."  Just saying if we really look at what prayer is, we have to put it into the perspective that many people do pray "wrong."  (For lack of a better term).
Quote
And it is silly to say knowing people care and are concerned for you makes a difference.  Studies have been done and it doesn't make any more difference than a placebo does: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msciprayer.html

Good resources to studies.  I will look into them further and see what else there is.  Possibly change my opinion, but I do think this is a critical point as well from one of the sources you mentioned:
"Having a positive attitude may help cancer patients deal with their disease..."

I was basing my statement off a similar study I saw about 2 years ago in ... Time (?) magazine.  And I don't even remember all the details of it, but I just assumed that statement was right.  Thanks for pointing out to me that it needs further investigation.


Quote
Christian theologies are intended to explain why the Bible doesn't mean what it clearly says.  All are to make "you" the "OneTrueChristiantm". 

I @#$)*( spent money to have the shirt made.  I might as well be the One True Christiantm.

Quote
Sorry, but SSDD.

No problem, NALK. :)

Offline Shakaib

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2008, 07:49:13 AM »
The Bible is written by man, not all of it though. However the Qur'an is completely by God

www.miraclesofthequran.com

GOD EXISTS!!!!!! WAKE UP!

Offline Shakaib

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2008, 08:01:49 AM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3UuKnxP3zM[/youtube]

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2008, 08:55:35 AM »
Matt....how are thin ::)gs in Korea?

You also seem to be sayign that no one prays "right".  As for prayer, jus what do you think prayer does?  Reminds God to do something?  Commands God to do it? 

It's a conversation.
Never said no one prays "right."  Just saying if we really look at what prayer is, we have to put it into the perspective that many people do pray "wrong."  (For lack of a better term).


Praying wrong or right.....it's still just wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. 

Offline Way Of The Warrior

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2008, 09:22:24 AM »
The Bible is written by man, not all of it though. However the Qur'an is completely by God

www.miraclesofthequran.com

GOD EXISTS!!!!!! WAKE UP!


Erm, have ya got proof there fella.  ???
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Offline Former Believer

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2008, 09:48:39 AM »
Clear as mud. If you have no basis for understanding the questions, don't bother answering.

Psstt...Friday.  The point is that he's asked questions to all Christians without even considering what Christian Theology is about.  He's directed questions really for Fundamentalists without considering the fact that not all Christians are fundamentalists.

So Matt, are you a Christian who believes that the Bible is filled with myths and errors?  If this is the case, I would ask you this:

Why would God, if he had an important message he wanted to communicate to us, allow it to be corrupted by fallible humans?
Matt, still waiting for a reply
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Online velkyn

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2008, 10:10:13 AM »
[qutoe]Oh, is it unfair that your God/Jesus said that he has healed people of harm in your Bible and that his followers will even do better magic? Sorry, that's what your Bible promises if one asks it of God.[/quote]
Quote
If we think of it with that premise, yes...I am saying it is unfair.  That's my whole point.  So we cannot think of it in that way.
ah, so if we dare read the Bible as it is written it's unfair.  We have to make magic excuses why the words don't mean what they say.  Alrighty then. 
Quote
  You also seem to be sayign that no one prays "right".  As for prayer, jus what do you think prayer does?  Reminds God to do something?  Commands God to do it? 
Quote
It's a conversation.
Never said no one prays "right."  Just saying if we really look at what prayer is, we have to put it into the perspective that many people do pray "wrong."  (For lack of a better term).
So, what "really is" prayer?  Tell me how one is "really" supposed to pray?  What's the magic formula? There must be one, since you claim that there is a "right" and "wrong".
Quote
And it is silly to say knowing people care and are concerned for you makes a difference.  Studies have been done and it doesn't make any more difference than a placebo does: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msciprayer.html
Quote
Good resources to studies.  I will look into them further and see what else there is.  Possibly change my opinion, but I do think this is a critical point as well from one of the sources you mentioned:
"Having a positive attitude may help cancer patients deal with their disease..."

I was basing my statement off a similar study I saw about 2 years ago in ... Time (?) magazine.  And I don't even remember all the details of it, but I just assumed that statement was right.  Thanks for pointing out to me that it needs further investigation.
Ah, not putting the whole quote down.  Let me help. "Having a positive attitude may help cancer patients deal with their disease, but it doesn't directly affect survival, according to one of the largest and most rigorously designed investigations ever to examine the issue."  As the full sentence states, it does not help their disease.  Per your Bible, it says that God/Jesus cured lepers. Not that he made them "deal" with their disease better.  I do enjoy watching Christians move the goal posts. 
Quote
Christian theologies are intended to explain why the Bible doesn't mean what it clearly says.  All are to make "you" the "OneTrueChristiantm". 
Quote
I @#$)*( spent money to have the shirt made.  I might as well be the One True Christiantm.
heh.

Quote
Sorry, but SSDD.
No problem, NALK. :)
[/quote]

not familiar with NALK.  Expand?
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2008, 10:26:45 AM »
The Bible is written by man, not all of it though. However the Qur'an is completely by God

www.miraclesofthequran.com

GOD EXISTS!!!!!! WAKE UP!

Watching you humiliate yourself pissing all over mohammed and allah is becoming very sad.

What did allah ever do to deserve your blasphemy?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline MrFriday

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2008, 03:03:47 AM »
However the Qur'an is completely by God
Obviously God is a plagiarist then.
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Offline MattInAsia

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2008, 01:19:56 PM »

ah, so if we dare read the Bible as it is written it's unfair.  We have to make magic excuses why the words don't mean what they say.  Alrighty then. 

??  Again...never advocated missing that.  I always say to read it as it says.  Most people can't do that, however, because they live in 21st Century America.  Or Canada, which adds the weight of wanting to be America.

Quote
 
So, what "really is" prayer?  Tell me how one is "really" supposed to pray?  What's the magic formula? There must be one, since you claim that there is a "right" and "wrong".

Formula?


Quote
Christian theologies are intended to explain why the Bible doesn't mean what it clearly says.  All are to make "you" the "OneTrueChristiantm". 

Actually, the opposite is true.  Theologians explain what we know based on many sources.  It is a pastoral job to help preserve what is already believed.  The two seek a balance that is not always perfectly settled.


Quote
I @#$)*( spent money to have the shirt made.  I might as well be the One True Christiantm.
heh.

Quote
Sorry, but SSDD.
No problem, NALK. :)
[/quote]

not familiar with NALK.  Expand?
[/quote]

That's Ok.  I just made it up because I have no clue what SSDD is.  :-)

Explain yours and I'll make one up for mine and we'll start a new NALK internet craze :)

Matt

Offline MattInAsia

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2008, 01:22:05 PM »
Matt....how are thin ::)gs in Korea?

Not sure.  Guess again :)

If it helps any, I think our Tae Kwon Do team still has a chance, but our baseball team is unlikely to win any medals at this point.  Oh...and China tried to change our names in the Olympics.



Praying wrong or right.....it's still just wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. 
[/quote]

Don't agree with that statement, but respect it.

Matt

Offline MattInAsia

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2008, 01:25:54 PM »

So Matt, are you a Christian who believes that the Bible is filled with myths and errors?  If this is the case, I would ask you this:

Why would God, if he had an important message he wanted to communicate to us, allow it to be corrupted by fallible humans?
Matt, still waiting for a reply
[/quote]

Sorry.  Missed it the first time around.  Trying to fit this message board in between a mesh of sex, performances, and bad Taiwanese television. 

I think this is a great topic of discussion for another thread, if it starts to go on too long.  I'd love to follow that thread and let's see where it takes us.

My initial thought on this matter is :  What is so important that we cannot communicate it to ourselves?  I'm a little unclear on what you think THE "important message" exactly is.  I've always thought an important message would come to a group through communication with each other.

So maybe a little clarification on exactly which message you think God wants to convey will be helpful in helping to answer the question.

Matt

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2008, 01:33:09 PM »
Or Canada, which adds the weight of wanting to be America.

I actually found this very arrogant and insulting. Americans may have a tendancy to think they are the end-all-be-all, but not many other people do. America's popularity in the world right now is absolutely abysmal.
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Offline Former Believer

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2008, 02:08:01 PM »

So Matt, are you a Christian who believes that the Bible is filled with myths and errors?  If this is the case, I would ask you this:

Why would God, if he had an important message he wanted to communicate to us, allow it to be corrupted by fallible humans?
Matt, still waiting for a reply


Sorry.  Missed it the first time around.  Trying to fit this message board in between a mesh of sex, performances, and bad Taiwanese television. 

I think this is a great topic of discussion for another thread, if it starts to go on too long.  I'd love to follow that thread and let's see where it takes us.

My initial thought on this matter is :  What is so important that we cannot communicate it to ourselves?  I'm a little unclear on what you think THE "important message" exactly is.  I've always thought an important message would come to a group through communication with each other.

So maybe a little clarification on exactly which message you think God wants to convey will be helpful in helping to answer the question.

Matt
[/quote]
Thanks for responding.

You still did not answer the first question I asked.  Are you a Christian that believes the Bible is filled with errors and myths?

Although I asked the question "If God has an important message he wants to communicate to us", the truth is that the Bible contains many messages and instructions to us about the nature and desires of God and the rules by which we are supposed to live our lives. The most important one, as far as Christians are concerned is that eternal salvation is available by accepting Christ's sacrifice on the cross. 

If I am the human resources director for a company, and I have policies that I want my employees to follow, I carefully write those policies down as clearly as possible, have others review my work to sure that it is error free and understandable, distribute it to the employees, and then go over it with them in a Q&A session to make sure that there are no misunderstandings.  Your argument that we are supposed to figure out what God wants to tell us by talking together and figuring it out by ourselves makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when the only thing we have to refer to is an untrustworthy document riddled with errors and myths.

[/quote]

« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 03:44:42 PM by Former Believer »
Faith unsubstaniated by the facts equal foolishness

Offline MrFriday

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2008, 05:42:01 PM »
not familiar with NALK.  Expand?

That's Ok.  I just made it up because I have no clue what SSDD is.  :-)

Explain yours and I'll make one up for mine and we'll start a new NALK internet craze :)

Matt
SSDD = Same shit, different day.
"Faith is believing in something you know isn't true" - Mark Twain

Offline MattInAsia

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2008, 08:33:17 PM »
Or Canada, which adds the weight of wanting to be America.

I actually found this very arrogant and insulting. Americans may have a tendancy to think they are the end-all-be-all, but not many other people do. America's popularity in the world right now is absolutely abysmal.

So you found it insulting that I pointed out something you agree with?  How...interesting.

Offline Former Believer

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2008, 08:50:25 PM »

So Matt, are you a Christian who believes that the Bible is filled with myths and errors?  If this is the case, I would ask you this:

Why would God, if he had an important message he wanted to communicate to us, allow it to be corrupted by fallible humans?
Matt, still waiting for a reply

Sorry.  Missed it the first time around.  Trying to fit this message board in between a mesh of sex, performances, and bad Taiwanese television. 

I think this is a great topic of discussion for another thread, if it starts to go on too long.  I'd love to follow that thread and let's see where it takes us.

My initial thought on this matter is :  What is so important that we cannot communicate it to ourselves?  I'm a little unclear on what you think THE "important message" exactly is.  I've always thought an important message would come to a group through communication with each other.

So maybe a little clarification on exactly which message you think God wants to convey will be helpful in helping to answer the question.

Matt
[/quote]

Thanks for replying

You still did not answer the first question I asked.  Are you a Christian that believes the Bible is filled with errors and myths?

Although I asked the question "If God has an important message he wants to communicate to us", the truth is that the Bible contains many messages and instructions to us about the nature and desires of God and the rules by which we are supposed to live our lives. The most important one, as far as Christians are concerned is that eternal salvation is available by accepting Christ's sacrifice on the cross. 

If I am the human resources director for a company, and I have policies that I want my employees to follow, I carefully write those policies down as clearly as possible, have others review my work to sure that it is error free and understandable, distribute it to the employees, and then go over it with them in a Q&A session to make sure that there are no misunderstandings.  Your argument that we are supposed to figure out what God wants to tell us by talking together and figuring it out by ourselves makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when the only thing we have to refer to is an untrustworthy document riddled with errors and myths.

Faith unsubstaniated by the facts equal foolishness

Offline MattInAsia

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2008, 09:30:59 PM »

Thanks for replying

You still did not answer the first question I asked.  Are you a Christian that believes the Bible is filled with errors and myths?

Of course.

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If I am the human resources director for a company, and I have policies that I want my employees to follow, I carefully write those policies down as clearly as possible, have others review my work to sure that it is error free and understandable, distribute it to the employees, and then go over it with them in a Q&A session to make sure that there are no misunderstandings.  Your argument that we are supposed to figure out what God wants to tell us by talking together and figuring it out by ourselves makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when the only thing we have to refer to is an untrustworthy document riddled with errors and myths.


The difference between us is I don't view the Bible as a policy manual.  It's more like a collection of experiences.

You wouldn't treat "The Diary of Anne Frank" as a policy book where everything must be exactly clear.  Why do it with a similar form of literature?

Offline Former Believer

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2008, 09:43:49 PM »

Thanks for replying

You still did not answer the first question I asked.  Are you a Christian that believes the Bible is filled with errors and myths?

Of course.

Quote


If I am the human resources director for a company, and I have policies that I want my employees to follow, I carefully write those policies down as clearly as possible, have others review my work to sure that it is error free and understandable, distribute it to the employees, and then go over it with them in a Q&A session to make sure that there are no misunderstandings.  Your argument that we are supposed to figure out what God wants to tell us by talking together and figuring it out by ourselves makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when the only thing we have to refer to is an untrustworthy document riddled with errors and myths.


The difference between us is I don't view the Bible as a policy manual.  It's more like a collection of experiences.

You wouldn't treat "The Diary of Anne Frank" as a policy book where everything must be exactly clear.  Why do it with a similar form of literature?
The Bible is not a similar form of literature.  The Diary of Anne Frank is a personal journal, not the alleged word of god. The Bible chronicles God's relationship with man and does function as a "policy manual" as it dictates God's expectation of man in extensive detail in both the Old and New Testaments.

In your opinion, what involvement did God have in the creation of the Bible?   What did he intend it to accomplish?
Faith unsubstaniated by the facts equal foolishness

Offline MattInAsia

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2008, 10:02:16 PM »

The Bible is not a similar form of literature.  The Diary of Anne Frank is a personal journal,

Then the intended audience might be different.  Not sure about some of the books, though.  I'd be curious if Wisdom or Psalms is more a personal journal that finally got out.

Still the point stands...you can't take a group of experiences and limit it to one form of literature.  Scripture is made up of 66 books and countless authors.  Some books were even written over hundreds of years by different people.  And it includes several types of literature.  To say it's a "policy manual" is just ignorant.  (Not saying that as an insult.  Just saying it's very wrong to think that and not many people know that).

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The Bible chronicles God's relationship with man and does function as a "policy manual" as it dictates God's expectation of man in extensive detail in both the Old and New Testaments.

I'll agree in so far as it dictated how people viewed their relationship with God and saw God working in their policies, practices, etc.  Anything else is a stretch.

Quote

In your opinion, what involvement did God have in the creation of the Bible?   What did he intend it to accomplish?

A collection of books and writings that show a history of how people understood God and give us a guide to understand our own tradition to form as a basis for continual growth.

It becomes a scary book when people read it the way most on this board are suggesting they read it:  As a 21st Century person.  Those that fail to look at what the Bible REALLY says and decide to look at it and just assume they know what it means because it's clear cause many problems in the world.

Offline Vynn

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Re: And 10 answers
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2008, 10:12:30 PM »
Those that fail to look at what the Bible REALLY says and decide to look at it and just assume they know what it means because it's clear cause many problems in the world.

Are you suggesting both that someone can "look at what the bible REALLY says", and that someone else can "look at it and just assume they know what it means"?

(It seems you are.)

If so, how does the one who believes he "looks at what the bible REALLY says" determine that he is not just "looking at it and just assuming he knows what it means"? Likewise, how does the one who thinks it is possible that he might be "looking at it and just assuming he knows what it means", change his method of reading the book so that he TRULLY "looks at what the bible REALLY says"?