Author Topic: Probabilities of God's existence debate  (Read 24805 times)

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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #841 on: April 10, 2014, 05:58:20 PM »
Let me get this straight, did Lukvance just say that non-human animals pray to a god?
Let me get this straight, I wasn't answering to you. Only to people who believe that dogs knows about Love. And that, mister, is the fuck.

I have a feeling that someone will be angry. You are not paying attention to reality.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #842 on: April 10, 2014, 06:09:02 PM »
Uhhh. Yeah. I am not a mister.....

Dogs do know about love. And they do not pray to any gods. If you don't know that, I guess you have never had a dog. Sorry about that.  &)

I am here today partly because as an abused child, I had a dog that loved and accepted me even when there were no humans (or gods for that matter) around who did. Of course, there was Mr. Spock, too. He was a steadfast and loyal friend. ;)

I would have gone along with anyone who was nice to me-- luckily no nefarious people were around to take even more advantage of my situation. If a god had wanted to show up, that would have been the perfect time.

I would like to piggyback on Astreja's point: why didn't any gods show themselves to us when we were at our lowest, most vulnerable points? Why did we have to rely on our own strength and resilience when other people supposedly got the hand of a god to pull them up?

And don't tell us god was busy talking but we, desperate and needy for help, were still refusing to listen. :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #843 on: April 10, 2014, 06:51:21 PM »
Uhhh. Yeah. I am not a mister.....

Dogs do know about love. And they do not pray to any gods. If you don't know that, I guess you have never had a dog. Sorry about that.  &)

I am here today partly because as an abused child, I had a dog that loved and accepted me even when there were no humans (or gods for that matter) around who did. Of course, there was Mr. Spock, too. He was a steadfast and loyal friend. ;)

I would have gone along with anyone who was nice to me-- luckily no nefarious people were around to take even more advantage of my situation. If a god had wanted to show up, that would have been the perfect time.

I would like to piggyback on Astreja's point: why didn't any gods show themselves to us when we were at our lowest, most vulnerable points? Why did we have to rely on our own strength and resilience when other people supposedly got the hand of a god to pull them up?

And don't tell us god was busy talking but we, desperate and needy for help, were still refusing to listen. :P

I always found that weird: when one's life is at one's worst the delusion seems to get stronger for some rather than weaker. I knew someone once who told me she was raped repeatedly by a loved one when she was a child and Biblegod was the strength that made her live through it. I asked her why didn't her god stop it and that's when she ceased speaking to me; as if I stabbed her through her heart for questioning such a thing.

Oh well.

I don't think it's the belief itself that is a positive or negative effect on one's decision on whether there is a god/s or not but it may have a stipulating causation of the validity of the conclusion whether positive or negative.

With me it was solely reading the KJV that made me question it's overall validity with reality rather than whether I thought Jesus was listening to me, or not. I think that's where the intellectual aspect comes into play: is it logical that my prayers to Jesus remain unanswered? Does it matter since even my pleas to those who are supposed to be my protectors to actually protect me goes silent, as well? It's the same. Both are realities, whether one lies in fiction or not they are both equal in what is an actual reality.

I think it all always stems to several factors:

  • Family. My family believes therefore I believe.
  • Community[1]. The community is ensconced in the majority of belief therefore I believe.
  • To not believe brings great negativity and hardship therefore I believe to only receive positivity for my life already exudes negativity and therefore I believe to not garner more negativity.
  • I wish to always be near my loved ones so to do so I must believe what they believe to once again be with them after death.
  • I believe because that is what I was taught[2] to believe.

Though, it may come to more, I believe it mainly comes down to those things. I don't think that "love"[3] or even aspects of origin on "morality" is very high on the list especially since religious societies show otherwise.

An opinion.

-Nam
 1. and in turn society
 2. Indoctrinated
 3. love we give not the supposed love "it" gives

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #844 on: April 10, 2014, 07:09:54 PM »
I feel the same way, growing up surrounded by other black folks who had lives as crappy as mine, but were always thanking god for this or that minor, run-of-the mill "miracle".  &)

Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #845 on: April 10, 2014, 09:24:34 PM »
Yes. So, you talked to her eh? :)

I said in my last five posts on this thread that god is a concept. You even quoted me saying it more than once. You are so occupied with fantasies, that you don't think clearly.
Yeah I don't think Lukvance comprehends what he's discussing or arguing here, or, rather, we're not arguing about the same things.

I dunno man.  I'm not sure where to go from here.  Lukvance, you get that no one is arguing or putting forth the view that the concept of god does not exist, right?

How about we use that as the starting point.

Yes, the concept of god exists.  There are many such concepts.  Presumably, you believe that one, or at least one (satisfying rules of exclusivity of course) of these concepts is actually manifest in reality.  That one, or at least one of these concepts describes something that actually is.

What is this concept, and why do you believe that it is describing something that is actually real?

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #846 on: April 10, 2014, 09:41:28 PM »
Quote
Yes, the concept of god exists.  There are many such concepts.  Presumably, you believe that one, or at least one (satisfying rules of exclusivity of course) of these concepts is actually manifest in reality.  That one, or at least one of these concepts describes something that actually is.
I agree to that and I would add : Atheist have a clear definition of "exist" when they say "God doesn't exist" and Love does exist".
Hopefully it is the same "exist"
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #847 on: April 10, 2014, 10:00:45 PM »
Quote
Yes, the concept of god exists.  There are many such concepts.  Presumably, you believe that one, or at least one (satisfying rules of exclusivity of course) of these concepts is actually manifest in reality.  That one, or at least one of these concepts describes something that actually is.
I agree to that and I would add : Atheist have a clear definition of "exist" when they say "God doesn't exist" and Love does exist".
Hopefully it is the same "exist"

Love, a complex and powerful emotion that manifests in a large myriad of different and unique ways?  Yes, that exists.  Many different creatures, most notably humans but others as well, appear to experience love.  Many, many different human beings describe many different aspects of love in different ways.  People even experience the qualia of love in different ways (as is expected, we are all unique people with unique biochemistries in unique environments).  Love is something that exists inside the mind, and it is something that is expressed in the external world.  The songs are right - Identifying expressions that stem from a genuine feeling of love can be tricky, but we are complex, emotional beasts.

Lukvance, does this god entity that you're describing exist in the external, objective reality that we all share?  Is it more than just a figment of your imagination and an emotional response?

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #848 on: April 10, 2014, 11:37:40 PM »
Quote
Yes, the concept of god exists.  There are many such concepts.  Presumably, you believe that one, or at least one (satisfying rules of exclusivity of course) of these concepts is actually manifest in reality.  That one, or at least one of these concepts describes something that actually is.
I agree to that and I would add : Atheist have a clear definition of "exist" when they say "God doesn't exist" and Love does exist".
Hopefully it is the same "exist"

As usual, I haven't the slightest idea why you think this important. You sound like you're about to do a victory lap because someone used some of the same words you used, and you see that as a victory.

I doubt that I am the only one getting tired of you telling us that your version of the truth is obvious and that the only thing we have to do is accept it. I, for one, have better things to do than become a mindless drone, while you insist on going on and on about how being a mindless drone is the epitome of existence. No wonder we aren't communicating.

Unless you can start a little business on the side finding lost car keys for WWGHA members, you are doomed to be pretty useless around here.

Never trust an atom. They make up everything!

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #849 on: April 11, 2014, 03:12:48 PM »
Since Lukvance has re-defined the words "real", "exist" and "true" to mean whatever he wants, we are unlikely to get anything close to a rational conversation out of him.

Imagine you are riding in a car with a friend. Suddenly they stop in the middle of a busy highway. You, panicked, ask them why they stopped. They say there is a red stop sign in front of the car.

"WTF?" you yell, as the other cars careen around you to keep from hitting you. "There is no stop sign there!"

"Yes," they say, "it is real. I told you it existed. Now you know it exists, too." And a semi truck barrels into you, sending you both to heaven.

That is what Lukvance is doing.

After a while it is not even funny anymore.

Of course, to be fair to Lukvance, nearly all the other drivers [on the highway of life] are randomly stopping for the stop signs [gods] they think are there as well.....  :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #850 on: April 11, 2014, 03:20:03 PM »
Of course, to be fair to Lukvance, nearly all the other drivers [on the highway of life] are randomly stopping for the stop signs [gods] they think are there as well.....  :P

Yeah, but their stop signs are not red, and everyone knows stop signs are red, so Lukvance's god must be true!
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #851 on: April 12, 2014, 03:36:25 PM »
Of course, to be fair to Lukvance, nearly all the other drivers [on the highway of life] are randomly stopping for the stop signs [gods] they think are there as well.....  :P

Yeah, but their stop signs are not red, and everyone knows stop signs are red, so Lukvance's god must be true!

I don't know, I think there's a South American country with yellow stop signs. I saw that playing that coordinates game I think pianodwarf posted here awhile back.

-Nam

Offline One Above All

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #852 on: April 12, 2014, 04:44:21 PM »
I don't know, I think there's a South American country with yellow stop signs. I saw that playing that coordinates game I think pianodwarf posted here awhile back.

Yeah, well... they're wrong. Everyone knows red means stop. Didn't you watch the first Hellboy movie?

-Nam

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The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Online Nam

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #853 on: April 12, 2014, 10:45:14 PM »
I don't know, I think there's a South American country with yellow stop signs. I saw that playing that coordinates game I think pianodwarf posted here awhile back.

Yeah, well... they're wrong. Everyone knows red means stop. Didn't you watch the first Hellboy movie?

-Nam

-One

What if you're colorblind? Red means nothing then, no?

-Nam

Offline One Above All

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #854 on: April 13, 2014, 04:45:35 AM »
What if you're colorblind? Red means nothing then, no?

That's why all atheists are colorblind. They need to be healed by DA LAWD so they can see the colors again and accept The TruthTM.

-Nam

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The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #855 on: April 13, 2014, 05:22:11 AM »
I kept going from last to first page, second last to second first and was getting into the thread. can someone tell if augusto is still posting or where in the thread he dropped out.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #856 on: April 13, 2014, 05:26:15 AM »
I kept going from last to first page, second last to second first and was getting into the thread. can someone tell if augusto is still posting or where in the thread he dropped out.

Haven't seen or heard from him in a long time. In fact, I think this is the first time I've heard his name in several months.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Online Nam

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #857 on: April 13, 2014, 05:41:26 AM »
I kept going from last to first page, second last to second first and was getting into the thread. can someone tell if augusto is still posting or where in the thread he dropped out.

Haven't seen or heard from him in a long time. In fact, I think this is the first time I've heard his name in several months.

You heard about August, July right behind.

-Nam

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Probabilities of God's existence debate
« Reply #858 on: Yesterday at 02:48:46 AM »
due to the lack of effect this "god" character has on my life, it is perfectly reasonable (by your argument) for me to place it on a level of reality alongside Voldemort and Gandalf, two characters that I have equal experience with, in that both they and "god" are written constructs from the imagination that I have never experienced in reality.
Yes! Exactly. What I want to prove here is that "God does not exist" is not a true sentence. And that even if you believe that God is as real as Voldemort, he still exist.

And?  So what if god exists at the same level as Gandalf?  Everyone here has agreed all along that they have no problem with that statement.  So I'm not sure what exactly it is you want to "prove" other than a semantic point of no interest to anyone but yourself?

"God does not exist other than a fictional charatcer".  Would you prefer if I said that every time?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?