Author Topic: Why [#1553]  (Read 357 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DL

Why [#1553]
« on: July 09, 2009, 09:04:51 PM »
Hey whats up

So why are you so passionate about what God does and what He doesn't do. Do you know
some one who is an amputee or are you yourself an amputee? If there is no God then
how did the world come to be, how did we come to be? Thanks for your help with these
questions.

[name]

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5008
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why [#1553]
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2009, 09:07:35 PM »
If there is no God then
how did the world come to be, how did we come to be?

I don't know.

Quote
Thanks for your help with these
questions.

No problem.

Offline PinkMilk

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1780
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why [#1553]
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2009, 09:13:53 PM »
Hey whats up

So why are you so passionate about what God does and what He doesn't do.
I honestly could give a shit less about what people claim God does or doesn't do.  The problem is when they try to force these thoughts and their values into my own life.  I think everyone should be concerned about that.
Quote
Do you know some one who is an amputee or are you yourself an amputee?
I actually do/did know an amputee.  He has since passed on, but he ended up a double amputee before he died from diabetes.  He didn't take very good care of himself and ended up losing both legs up to knee slowly toe by toe, leg by leg.
Quote
If there is no God then how did the world come to be, how did we come to be?
There are tons of theories out there.  While none of them are definitive and it may be that we never definitively know, it is pretty safe to assume that God did not play a part in it.  Is it possible that Deistic God set things in motion?  Sure.  Is it likely that the God of organized religions exist?  No.
Quote
Thanks for your help with these
questions.

[name]
Not at all
I can see where your coming from but on the other hand i dont want my kid to learn about evolution or see homosexualisom talked about in a scince classs ethier. <-- From Youguysarepathetic

At least I have a mother. Have you? (serious question) <---From Skylark889

Offline PeterRabbit

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1631
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Bad Bun
Re: Why [#1553]
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2009, 09:18:33 PM »
Hey whats up

Sol.

So why are you so passionate about what God does and what He doesn't do?

Because the idea of God has made many people delusional.

Do you know someone who is an amputee, or are you yourself an amputee?

No, but the word amputee does indeed exist, so there must be amputees somewhere.

If there is no god, then how did the world come to be, how did we come to be?

Nobody really knows where all of this stuff came from, but I think I'd rather trust the dudes in the lab coats who aren't demanding that I get up early every Sunday to overdress and apologize for being human.

Thanks for your help with these questions.

No problem.

PeterRabbit


Offline Emily

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5663
  • Darwins +49/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why [#1553]
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2009, 09:29:23 PM »
Quote
So why are you so passionate about what God does and what He doesn't do

Because if god is able to heal the sick of cancer, give sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf, and even create the universe, then he should be able to do anything. Yet healing amputees seems to be his limitation.

...Odd

Quote
Do you know
some one who is an amputee or are you yourself an amputee?

Nope.

Quote
If there is no God then
how did the world come to be, how did we come to be?

I believe the universe was created by the big bang. What caused the 'bang'; I don't know for sure, but I know what science tells us happened. All I know is that it must have been a pretty chaotic event, even during the very first seconds when the universe was so incredibly tiny.

Did god cause something to 'bang'? I don't think so. But if there is a god that did cause something to bang ~14bya, I strongly, strongly doubt it was the god of the bible.

-Em
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline PeterRabbit

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1631
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Bad Bun
Re: Why [#1553]
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2009, 09:30:39 PM »
Good word, Em! ;D

Offline Hermes

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9988
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • 1600 years of oppression ends; Zeus is worshiped.
Re: Why [#1553]
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2009, 11:09:41 PM »
So why are you so passionate about what God does and what He doesn't do.

I have a standard answer ... see the attachment below.

Do you know some one who is an amputee or are you yourself an amputee?

You misunderstand the nature of the question being asked.  Here, I'll give you a point-by-point outline;

1. The Christian Bible has promises in it.

2. The promises are said to be kept in ambiguous situations.

3. The promises are not kept in unambiguous situations, such as but not limited to amputees.


The potential conclusions are;

1. The book is wrong, but the Christian deity exists.

2. The book was right, but the Christian deity no longer honors the book though it could.

3. The book was right, but the Christian deity no longer honors the book because it can't.

4. The book is not relevant to the questions it raises because the Christian deity doesn't exist.

5. The book is not relevant to the questions it raises because some other deity or deities exist, not the Christian one, and that deity or deities don't honor what they did not sign up for.

6. The book is not relevant to the questions it raises because some other deity or deities exist, not the Christian one, and that deity or deities do honor similar promises to those who pray to them or offer some other communication or gift as a bribe for the miracle.  (Example: Hindu miracles.)

I'm going with #4.  Do you have anything that would sway me to another choice?

If there is no God then how did the world come to be, how did we come to be?

I don't know, though I don't see any evidence that the Christian deity did it, or the Hindu, or the Muslim, or the Aztec.

Do you?  If so, what is it -- and why should I consider the Christian deity over the others?

Note: Please do not bring up Pascal's Wager.  It was probably not the reason why you are a Christian (if you are?), so why would it be convincing to a non-Christian?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager#Criticisms

Thanks for your help with these questions.

Glad to help.  Here's my standard answer to questions like your first one.  I hope you find it illustrative;

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have noticed, as you may have as well, that there are Christians that do things in the name of Christianity that are negative.  Christians that promote bigotry and ignorance.  Christians that advocate actions that lead to harm and even death.  Christians that advocate not caring about this world and who want it to be destroyed in a polluted and fiery apocalypse.

If there were enough Christians that effectively dealt with those problems, I would not have any concerns.  Believe as you want.  As far as I would be concerned, the real world problems would be solved.

Unfortunately, that is not the world we are in.  Most Christians aren't doing nearly enough.   Many unfortunately are actively promoting these negative goals -- from paying money passively to going out and doing these negative actions themselves.  Some of the strongest advocates for those negative actions are the leaders and congregants of the larger Christian churches and organizations; this is not a problem with a few fringe groups or eccentric cult leaders.

Too many Christians not only do not take responsibility, they are leading the charge for these negative actions.  They justify bigotry and ignorance, they justify actions that result in the deaths of others that could be easily avoided.

As a responsible person, someone who cares about the world and the future of humanity, I have to act.  Even if it is not my fault that these Christians are doing harm, it is my responsibility to do something positive.  You can consider it a moral obligation.  If that means that I have to hold up a mirror so that my fellow humans look at what they believe, then I'll take that modest step.  Maybe that will be enough to drain the air out of some of those bad ideas?

My question to you is not what you believe, but what are you doing about the acts your fellow Christians perform in the name of Christianity that spread hate, bigotry, ignorance, pain, and death?



So, in summary, I'm not concerned about the actions of the Christian deity.  I'm concerned about the actions of the followers of that deity.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline MadBunny

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3561
  • Darwins +110/-0
  • Fallen Illuminatus
Re: Why [#1553]
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2009, 11:17:53 PM »
Hey whats up

So why are you so passionate about what God does and what He doesn't do. Do you know
some one who is an amputee or are you yourself an amputee? If there is no God then
how did the world come to be, how did we come to be? Thanks for your help with these
questions.

[name]

First,
Welcome to the forum.

It isn't a question about god so much as about those who believe in him.
If Christians were willing to simply keep their faith to themselves, pray, worship or whatever else they do that keeps them happy I would have no problem with that.

The parts where is becomes an issue is when religion (not just Christianity) begins to intrude upon our lives and dictate what we can and can't learn.  It tries to dictate who we have to be, regardless of what we think, or what the evidence to the contrary might be.  The rather famous example of Galileo where the observed world departs from scripture and those who depend on scripture for their faith to function choose to hide and punish empirical observation rather than question the veracity of their scripture.

The question posed on the main site, and to a somewhat lesser degree in the videos is really asking this: "why won't god perform unambiguous miracles?"  Plenty of things are given credit as miracles, yet there never seem to be unambiguous examples that can't be explained.
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.