Author Topic: So How Deluded am I?  (Read 4079 times)

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Offline contrapunctus

So How Deluded am I?
« on: July 06, 2009, 12:38:07 AM »
Hello all,

Since this is my first post I think I should introduce myself a bit.
I'm a student at the University of Florida studying Environmental Engineering and atmospheric chemistry.  I love mountain biking, trail riding, and participating in triathlons.  I also consider myself to be quite a proficient pianist.  I spend much of my time divided between my studies and my hobbies.  Hopefully I've laid some sort of basis for commonality so far :)

Now onto my question -

I just recently "discovered" this website and the questions it raises certainly gives me a headful of thoughts to mull over.  I've never fully alligned my system of beliefs with fundamentalists of any kind, and have always chosen to see God in a syncretistic manner.  To me, the question of God "answering" prayers is invalid because I think that divine intervention in our frivolous affairs actually diminishes the potency and glory of the God I choose to worship.  I see God in a sort of pan-deistic duality.  In addition, I believe that faith in such a being holds credence because the views I espouse qualify under a classification of "proper basicality".  As for prostelyzing others to my views, I hold a sort of "Jamesian" Pragmatism - I follow the "Christian tradition" solely because of the strength of personal experience and effect it accrues to its members.  Note - I am making no claim on the way these experiences support the veracity of a specific theism claim, only their pure pragmatic effect and why I choose to follow the "Christian tradition" based off of them (the experiences).

To summarize - I don't believe in answered prayers, miracles, divine intervention, or any of that humdrum.  I do, however, eagerly worship with fellow Christians of all types and keep my mind and conscience in such a state that while in  worship to my God I can feel the same emotional fervor as if I held some more "fundamental" belief.

I see  nothing egregious or flawed with the beliefs I hold and am asking in kindness if any of you have any viable deconstructions or criticisms of my worldview.

Thanks

Offline PeterRabbit

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2009, 12:41:18 AM »
You're simply deluded, that's all. Sorry, but you asked, and I'm answering.

Here, watch this.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwTRX4QDhc0&feature=channel_page[/youtube]

Wow, if I'm going to be using my video like this, I better get to work on the remake!

Offline ksm

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 12:43:31 AM »
So essentially you imagine an uninvolved deist style god?

You don't adhere to dogmatic notions of scriptural inerrancy?

You're in it for the social benefits?

So far I can't see too much trouble, but then I don't always understand big words.

Instead of telling us what you don't believe, tell us what you do believe.


Offline contrapunctus

Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 12:52:03 AM »
yes ksm, the 3 statements you posited sum up the bulk of my beliefs.  I acknowledge that I may have an unverifiable, and possibly deluded view of God - the pantheistic deity I described above.  However, it's through this view of God that I've been able to glean the most from both worlds; a skeptical and open mind about most things I encounter and the ability to indulge in the sense of communal depth and ecstatic worship that characterizes the "emergent" Church.

Offline Deus ex Machina

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2009, 03:05:14 AM »
I don't get it. If I want communal depth and ecstatic worship(!), I'd go to a rock concert. I wouldn't see the point in going to a Church whose views are aligned with my own in almost no respects whatsoever. But then, I guess this is what cultural indoctrination does for you. Thank <undefined> I live in the UK.
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Offline bahramthered

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2009, 04:00:16 AM »
Delusional, but harmless.

Your in the same category as people who think certain colors are lucky.

Your not intolerant, your not fundie, your not forcing your views on anyone else, and you seem open to debate (sure sign of a moderate).

Expect me to ridicule your beliefs, challenge you to though provoking conversations, and demand answers your unlikely to have. But I just want to either help you shake the delusion or make you even more moderate/rational.

Offline ksm

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2009, 08:27:23 AM »
You seem reasonable enough, so far.

I don't understand why you would want to worship with Christians, many of whom if they discovered how and what you believe might not want to worship with you.

Offline deconvertedone

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2009, 08:54:31 AM »
Did you just make-up your own beliefs?  If you claim to be a Christian don't you have to attempt to follow the only guide book that was provided by your God i.e. the Bible.  Otherwise, aren't you just making it up as you go?  You don't have any more proof for your own beliefs than any other person of faith has.  You can certainly believe what ever you wish, but just don't pass it off as being a Christian if you just make it up.
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Offline CutePuppy

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2009, 09:02:02 AM »
Did you just make-up your own beliefs?  If you claim to be a Christian don't you have to attempt to follow the only guide book that was provided by your God i.e. the Bible.  Otherwise, aren't you just making it up as you go?  You don't have any more proof for your own beliefs than any other person of faith has.  You can certainly believe what ever you wish, but just don't pass it off as being a Christian if you just make it up.

Why not? A lot of Christians do the same thing. They take the bible as a very (very!) general guideline and fill the rest in themselves in a way that fits their thinking/lifestyles best. Although, I think his approach is a stronger type of cop out: he believes/worships a (type of) biblegod, but he doesn't believe in everything (the bible states) that doesn't make sense to him. So he's not going to be open for discussing those topics at all.

In a way, he's like that JTW guy: believes in jesus, but doesn't really believe in anything else stated in the bible (particularly the stuff in OT) so he doesn't have to go over the trouble of defending those asinine religious positions while still reaping the benefit of being a jesus believer and being accepted into paradise, assuming it exists.

So I'm going to go with bahramthered on this one: he's delusional but relatively harmless.

Offline Omen

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2009, 09:04:07 AM »
Hello all,

Since this is my first post I think I should introduce myself a bit.
I'm a student at the University of Florida studying Environmental Engineering and atmospheric chemistry.  I love mountain biking, trail riding, and participating in triathlons.  I also consider myself to be quite a proficient pianist.  I spend much of my time divided between my studies and my hobbies.  Hopefully I've laid some sort of basis for commonality so far :)

Hi and welcome to the forum. You should probably post this portion into the 'intro' part of the forum for the expressed purpose of introducing yourself.

Quote
Now onto my question -

I just recently "discovered" this website and the questions it raises certainly gives me a headful of thoughts to mull over.  I've never fully alligned my system of beliefs with fundamentalists of any kind, and have always chosen to see God in a syncretistic manner.

Could you expand on this?

Quote
 To me, the question of God "answering" prayers is invalid because I think that divine intervention in our frivolous affairs actually diminishes the potency and glory of the God I choose to worship.

Bravo!  You have successfully answered the WWGHA question in the only manner in which it can even be challenged.  That is to admit that miracles simply do not occur or cannot occur.  The opposite side of the coin is to admit limitations as well as a purpose/intent of said god that runs contrary to the human condition that people emotionally identify with.

I know its hard to believe, but this seemingly irrelevant and easily made admission escapes most of the theist that come here.  I would speculate because so many often base their beliefs on the idea that miracles do occur or have occurred in their own lives since many claim to have had 'experiences' to that effect.


Quote
 I see God in a sort of pan-deistic duality.

Could you expand upon this? Could you explain the duality?

Quote
 In addition, I believe that faith in such a being holds credence because the views I espouse qualify under a classification of "proper basicality".

I am familiar with Plantinga's use of "Proper Basicality" and I have to say that its so poor a qualifier for belief that it can be used like a tautology for belief in anything.  It just begs the question and demands for some reason that it need be believed at all because it just ignores the primary problem by presenting a red herring.

Quote
 As for prostelyzing others to my views, I hold a sort of "Jamesian" Pragmatism - I follow the "Christian tradition" solely because of the strength of personal experience and effect it accrues to its members.  Note - I am making no claim on the way these experiences support the veracity of a specific theism claim, only their pure pragmatic effect and why I choose to follow the "Christian tradition" based off of them (the experiences).

I would disagree only on the contention that 'christianity' cannot be reduced to any specific objective ideology or philosophy.  The religious scripture is so vague and often so contradictory, that it lends itself to almost any conclusion.  I question any intellectual connection between pragmatism and the scripture itself.

Quote
To summarize - I don't believe in answered prayers, miracles, divine intervention, or any of that humdrum.  I do, however, eagerly worship with fellow Christians of all types and keep my mind and conscience in such a state that while in  worship to my God I can feel the same emotional fervor as if I held some more "fundamental" belief.

So do you also fall in step when christians are busy voting their religious creeds into law or want their bigotry to be part of the function of the state?

If you don't or if you are part of a more liberal/moderate church, do you work to make the positive change you claim to follow?

Quote
I see  nothing egregious or flawed with the beliefs I hold and am asking in kindness if any of you have any viable deconstructions or criticisms of my worldview.

Well, you don't have to ask in kindness because I will criticize anything in front of me ( as well as receive the same cheerfully ).  My only problem thus far is that your claims are so flimsy and hiding behind metaphors that you arn't really claiming anything at all that you can't simply sidestep by claiming you don't believe it.  You havn't provided enough detail to what you believe or why you believe it.

*Note: I do not think you are deluded simply because you claim to believe in a god ( whatever a god is ).
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 09:29:48 AM by Omen »
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Offline jedweber

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2009, 09:20:06 AM »
Welcome, contrapunctus. Based on your description, I have no desire to criticize or attack your worldview at all . It works for you, and it even seems pretty sensible to me, though there are elements there I just don't see a need for in my own life. If all Christians were like you, I wouldn't have nearly as much problem with Christianity.

Be warned that some people here are not going to understand your approach to religion. They'll try to shoehorn you into the stereotype of the dogmatic fundie, maybe because that's the experience they came out of, or run up against most often.

Sorry, deconvertedone, but your post is an example. Your using the same arguments that a fundie would, criticizing contra for not following the True ChristianityTM. Conservative American evangelicalism is just one narrow strain of Christianity, and for many Christians the Bible is not a science book, or a history text, or a rigid guidebook to be followed mindlessly. There are other traditions that involve a lot more thought.

Offline bertatberts

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2009, 10:16:57 AM »
Contrapunctus :
You seem harmless, but definitely delusional, so I would not employ you, or put you in a position of power.
Simply because of that delusion, you cant be taken seriously, and as such, you could become dangerous.
We have enough people like that in power already.
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Offline Omen

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2009, 10:35:18 AM »
I think you guys are misusing what it means to be 'delusional'.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Adelusional&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g%3As1

A delusion is commonly defined as a fixed false belief and is used in everyday language to describe a belief that is either false, fanciful or derived from deception

# delusion - (psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary
# delusion - a mistaken or unfounded opinion or idea; "he has delusions of competence"; "his dreams of vast wealth are a hallucination"
# delusion - the act of deluding; deception by creating illusory ideas

How have we shown deistic belief to be false?

Where has Contrapunctus even provided enough details to make any conclusion from it pro or con?

I do think many theist are delusional, but I would only identify those that display traits that could be described as delusional ( such as creationism with dishonesty and ignorace of contradictory facts ).
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Offline Procrustes

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2009, 11:09:32 AM »
Hi.

Questions, if you don't mind.

1. Why a single god versus two or more?

2. Which of the following characteristics would you use to describe your god? (pick as many as apply)
a. omnipotent
b. omniscient
c. loving
d. supernatural
e. natural
f. limited
g. provable
h. emotional
i. timeless
j. sole creator of the universe
k. interventionist
l. spiteful
m. glorious
n. immeasurable
o. judgmental
p. caring
q. apathetic
r. big
s. intangible
t. friendly
u. undeniable

3. Would you describe the Christian bible as being historically correct regarding your god?  (how about other religious doctrine?)

4. How did you "discover" your god?

5. Are people who believe in other gods "wrong"?  And, are there other gods?

6. Are all other god beliefs merely different ways of worshipping the very same god you worship? (i.e., it's all the same god)

7. Do you believe that religion has a place in government?  If so, what place, and how do you reconcile your beliefs with the First Amendment (if you're in the U.S.).  If not, why not?

8. What is faith?

9. Is faith a minimum requirement of belief in your god, or do you think there is evidence outside of faith that is sufficient to manifest belief?

10. I appreciate you addressing these questions.  Please use this opportunity to ask me any question, if you like.



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Offline SimpleMan

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2009, 11:21:12 AM »
OP - you're on a slippery slope.

Many of us here started the same way that you are, now. We'd never quite taken a good hard long look at our beliefs and whether or not they were valid, or could be valid. When we started to, we realized that we didn't actually believe what we thought we did.

To answer your question - I don't believe any gods that have been shown to me, so I would think that you're incorrect. You do sound mostly harmless. Some would argue that accepting you and your god opens the gates for us to accept everyone accepting their own god how they see fit - and history has shown us this is dangerous.
I cannot see one shadow or tittle of evidence that the great unknown underlying the phenomenon of the universe stands to us in the relation of a Father who loves us and cares for us as Christianity asserts.

Offline velkyn

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2009, 11:35:10 AM »
Hello all,

Since this is my first post I think I should introduce myself a bit.
I'm a student at the University of Florida studying Environmental Engineering and atmospheric chemistry.  I love mountain biking, trail riding, and participating in triathlons.  I also consider myself to be quite a proficient pianist.  I spend much of my time divided between my studies and my hobbies.  Hopefully I've laid some sort of basis for commonality so far :)

Welcome,  I'm a geologist by training and a science nerd by choice. 

Quote
Now onto my question -

I just recently "discovered" this website and the questions it raises certainly gives me a headful of thoughts to mull over.  I've never fully alligned my system of beliefs with fundamentalists of any kind, and have always chosen to see God in a syncretistic manner.  To me, the question of God "answering" prayers is invalid because I think that divine intervention in our frivolous affairs actually diminishes the potency and glory of the God I choose to worship.  I see God in a sort of pan-deistic duality.  In addition, I believe that faith in such a being holds credence because the views I espouse qualify under a classification of "proper basicality".  As for prostelyzing others to my views, I hold a sort of "Jamesian" Pragmatism - I follow the "Christian tradition" solely because of the strength of personal experience and effect it accrues to its members.  Note - I am making no claim on the way these experiences support the veracity of a specific theism claim, only their pure pragmatic effect and why I choose to follow the "Christian tradition" based off of them (the experiences).

You have created a excuse why God shouldn't need to answer prayers to alleve the problem of having to explain why he doesn't.  Put simply, you've redefined God in your own image.  If personal experience is such a factor, why don't you accept the personal experiences of schizphrenics as valid? I find that you are a Christain since you were raised in a Christian society.  If you were raised in Iran, you'd be a muslim with the same made up God. 

Quote
To summarize - I don't believe in answered prayers, miracles, divine intervention, or any of that humdrum.  I do, however, eagerly worship with fellow Christians of all types and keep my mind and conscience in such a state that while in  worship to my God I can feel the same emotional fervor as if I held some more "fundamental" belief.

I see  nothing egregious or flawed with the beliefs I hold and am asking in kindness if any of you have any viable deconstructions or criticisms of my worldview.

You seem to think only Christians are good people. That's sad. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Ashe

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2009, 12:36:37 PM »
Ah, UF. My best friends go there. :)

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Offline Tealeaf

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2009, 02:28:21 PM »
I agree with the others.

Delusional but harmless.

The tell-tale sign of delusion? Upper-case G male-oriented god. As well as 'knowing' this god.

As another has already stated, why just one god?

If you believe god to be completely hands off, why bother with any of this god talk at all? Take a hint from science here. Science is never concerned with an gods or higher powers. Guess why....

Science is what's thrusting us forward by the way. Science is what finds real answers, cures and solutions to our problems. What does making up your own god-belief do for you or anybody?

Offline mram

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2009, 02:46:39 PM »
I don't think you're so far off the charts you can't be brought back to sanity or anything, but I do think you're bordering there with those people who say "I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual because i have a chinese character tattooed on my ass" or something akin to that..
Most of us begin with similar thoughts but the fact that you're here asking is encouraging and indicates you do have enough doubt that there is hope for salvage after all... Note i didn't say salvation..
Imagine gaining favor with "Darwin's"...kind of like praying, huh?

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Offline Seppuku

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2009, 03:13:19 PM »
You seem rational, open minded and a tolerate fellow, so in those respects your not. You are deluded in a completely harmless way and a way that doesn't bother me at all, it sounds as though you think it's done good for you and it may well have done. On a place like this no doubt those views will be scruntinised, but then this is an atheist forum debating 'God', so I hope you understand that before you enter any debate.


Welcome to the forum and hope you enjoy the debate, no matter how heated it may get.  ;D
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Offline contrapunctus

Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2009, 03:57:41 PM »
Ok!

Thank you all for the competent responses - some of the criticisms I've seen raised are definitely legitimate and pose significant problems for my worldview.  The first being the slippery slope of open and unverifiable beliefs ("faith" essentially).  I initially defended my beliefs against that argument based on what I saw as their "proper basicality", but as I examine the scholastic reception of Plantinga's hypothesis I concede that their logical credence is a bit dubious :(

Secondly, I disagree with the last comment velkyn made stating that I "seem to believe only Christians are good people".  I know that my slightly chauvanistic preference for Christian communion may indeed indicate that this is my view, but I certainly do not believe this.

In respect to the questions that Procrustes raised, I can only answer a few of them: 1) due to recent conclusions I reached in paragraph 1, I have no real defense against this.  3) no.. 4) subjective experience... 5) no, not necessarily.. under my previous mode of reasoning though, any conception of God which wasn't a "logical consummation" (i.e. not omnipotent or omniscient) didn't qualify as a safe belief justified through the concept of "proper basicity"   7)absolutely not, religion taints the faculties of government.

I do have a question in return Procrustes: What is your personal view of spirituality / theism ?

Offline Procrustes

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2009, 04:37:20 PM »
Ok!

Thank you all for the competent responses - some of the criticisms I've seen raised are definitely legitimate and pose significant problems for my worldview.  The first being the slippery slope of open and unverifiable beliefs ("faith" essentially).  I initially defended my beliefs against that argument based on what I saw as their "proper basicality", but as I examine the scholastic reception of Plantinga's hypothesis I concede that their logical credence is a bit dubious :(

Secondly, I disagree with the last comment velkyn made stating that I "seem to believe only Christians are good people".  I know that my slightly chauvanistic preference for Christian communion may indeed indicate that this is my view, but I certainly do not believe this.

In respect to the questions that Procrustes raised, I can only answer a few of them: 1) due to recent conclusions I reached in paragraph 1, I have no real defense against this.  3) no.. 4) subjective experience... 5) no, not necessarily.. under my previous mode of reasoning though, any conception of God which wasn't a "logical consummation" (i.e. not omnipotent or omniscient) didn't qualify as a safe belief justified through the concept of "proper basicity"   7)absolutely not, religion taints the faculties of government.

I do have a question in return Procrustes: What is your personal view of spirituality / theism ?

Thanks for taking a shot at my questions.  I was really hoping you'd answer #2... perhaps later?

As for your question to me, I consider myself a rational humanist materialist atheist, although I have studied religion and philosophy, and have held a number of different personal beliefs based on my perceptions and knowledge at the time.  I'm generally intolerant of dogmatism and other self-inflicted myopia, empathetic to those struggling under the thumbs of theocrats who use religion as an excuse to abuse others, and skeptical with regard to just about anything that matters or may matter.

  I'm also constantly second-guessing myself with regard to "phenomena" -- could there be X?  I leave open possibilities (lest my mind be self-deluded by my unflinching desire to avoid self-delusion), and I've experimented extensively with all sorts of so-called supernatural, psychic, and otherworldly rituals in order to answer my own questions.  I am learning to enjoy the world, the universe, as the world and as the universe, not the world and universe oddly mangled to include entities that contradict my observations and the observations of those whom I find reliable and rational. 

There is so much wonderment to behold without bothering with trying to be faithful or giving glory to something characterized as being supernatural and intangible.  If I ever get to the point where I am actually somehow interacting (and I realize at the time that I am) with the supernatural and intangible, then I will deal with it at that time.  In the meantime, I'm going to deal with the world using my perception and mind.  If, in fact, those were god-given, then perhaps I'm pleasing the old boy by making use of them rather than dumbing them down with dogma and ritual.

:)
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Offline Agga

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2009, 04:37:32 PM »
Hi contrapunctus.  

I don't have much to add to this post from jedweber, which echoes my sentiment almost exactly.


Welcome, contrapunctus. Based on your description, I have no desire to criticize or attack your worldview at all . It works for you, and it even seems pretty sensible to me, though there are elements there I just don't see a need for in my own life. If all Christians were like you, I wouldn't have nearly as much problem with Christianity.

Be warned that some people here are not going to understand your approach to religion. They'll try to shoehorn you into the stereotype of the dogmatic fundie, maybe because that's the experience they came out of, or run up against most often.

Sorry, deconvertedone, but your post is an example. Your using the same arguments that a fundie would, criticizing contra for not following the True ChristianityTM. Conservative American evangelicalism is just one narrow strain of Christianity, and for many Christians the Bible is not a science book, or a history text, or a rigid guidebook to be followed mindlessly. There are other traditions that involve a lot more thought.



I suppose the only other thing I'd say is thank you for coming with an open mind and not just running us down for ALL being atheists and ALL following satan.

Hopefully you'll stick around because I'm hoping to learn something from your interactions here..



Agga :)
I've left WWGHA now, so do everyone else a favour and don't bother replying to my old posts and necromancing my threads.

Offline Odin

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2009, 06:10:13 PM »
To summarize - I don't believe in answered prayers, miracles, divine intervention, or any of that humdrum.  I do, however, eagerly worship with fellow Christians of all types and keep my mind and conscience in such a state that while in  worship to my God I can feel the same emotional fervor as if I held some more "fundamental" belief.

So, you basically practice Recreational Christianity.  Is that about right?

Odin, King of the Gods

Offline DI

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2009, 07:20:15 PM »
"As I have previously stated, the middle east has been extensively excavated, and there is no evidence of the Exodus.  No Exodus, no chosen people.  No chosen people, no messiah.  No messiah, no resurrection.  No resurrection, no god."

-Odin

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2009, 07:34:57 PM »
contrapunctus, I like you.

bm
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline bikerbabe

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2009, 10:36:08 AM »
I do not think your delusional (am really getting tired of that word being thrown around alot).
I think you have an open mind and are keeping it that way because you are still in search of your own personal clarity of mind.
Just because you may have a belief in a God for social and emotional benefits has nothing to do with delusion it is a belief and makes you feel better.
This kind of thinking at least leaves you open to many other possibilities.
The only ones in my view that may be considered delusional, but I still do not think that word is used correctly here, are what I consider cults, like Southern Baptist, JW's so on.
Organized religion where all the members seem brainwashed.

Offline velkyn

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2009, 12:21:38 PM »
Having an open mind does not mean that one believes things randomly, without evidence.  I have an open mind but I do question things. I do require evidence.  I can think about the concept of gods, belief, faith, etc but I need evidence of why I should consider them part of reality.  Faith is real, belief is real.  The being that people claim to believe in has not yet been shown to be real.    

Delusion: 2 a : something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated b : a persistent false psychotic (fundamental derangement of the mind (as in schizophrenia) characterized by defective or lost contact with reality especially as evidenced by delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized speech and behavior ) belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary; also : the abnormal state marked by such beliefs http://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/delusional

God is claimed to be a being that interacts with humans and creates occurrences beyond what is possible according to the laws of physics/chemistry.  We see no evidence of such occurrences.  We see no evidence of such interaction.  This being is claimed to be omniscient/omnipotent/omnibenevolent and it comes down to the problem of evil that most demonstrates why the existence of such a being is very unlikely if not impossible.  Now one can postulate a being that isn’t omniscient/omnipotent/omnibenevolent but that isn’t what most theists mean when they say “god”.  The JWs, Southern Baptists, etc have the same reasons to believe as you do, BB.  They think that they have experienced something "special".  They think that they have somehow gained an awareness of what is "right" and what is "wrong".  They cite miracles, etc as "proof" that they are "right".  
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 01:00:21 PM by velkyn »
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Offline Omen

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Re: So How Deluded am I?
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2009, 12:48:34 PM »
I do not think your delusional (am really getting tired of that word being thrown around alot).

You're the only one throwing it around and applying it yourself, so don't give us the martyr complex because you have poor reading comprehension.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me