Author Topic: How was the universe created? [#1513]  (Read 1968 times)

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Offline DL

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How was the universe created? [#1513]
« on: June 21, 2009, 09:15:26 PM »
I was wondering that since atheists do not believe in a creator than how do you
think the

universe was created?  If you say the big bang, then this is a good scientific
reason yet

how does something come out of nothing?  If God does not exist according to you,
then there was

nothing in the universe, do you really beleive that something like the big bang
could all of a suddenly happen?

Also you might then say that if there is a God then who created Him?



Well, lets say that some archeologists discovered some old artifacts in the ground.
They would probably say that

the artifacts were designed by some primitive people. They would probably not say
that the artificats were made due to metamorphis and sedmentation in the rock which
happened to form the rocks in those artificat like shapes.  However we understand
that there is no need to explain where the primitive people came from.



There is no need to have an explanation of an explanation, if you did there would be
an infinite regress of explanations for the original explanation.   During this
nothing would be explained! This principle is anathetical to the very project of
science and simply would destroy it.  Therefore in order to recognize an explanation
as the best explanation for the complex order of the universe, you do not have to
have an explanation for the explanation.  You may not know what the explanation is
of the intellgent designer that produced the cosmos but that doesnt in anyway count
against the credability of the hypothesis that the complex order in the universe is
best explained by there being an intelligent designer in the universe.  What are
your thoughts.

Offline Ananukia

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2009, 09:33:20 PM »
I don't know, but I'm fairly sure it was not a magical invisible sky wizard.
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Offline Nick

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2009, 09:38:31 PM »
I do not know either but I agree just because we don't understand something does not mean we need to fill in the gaps with a god.  It is OK to just say..."Idon't know".
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Emily

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2009, 09:40:32 PM »
Quote
If you say the big bang, then this is a good scientific
reason yet how does something come out of nothing?

This is a strawman. The big bang theory doesn't say something came out of nothing. The theory states that there was a singularity before the big bang, and then there was an expansion.

Quote
do you really beleive that something like the big bang
could all of a suddenly happen?
Yes. I very strongly believe this. Here is the current space probe studying it. Check it out[1]

Quote
Also you might then say that if there is a God then who created Him?

It's funny how the question can easily be turned around to ask that.

Quote
You may not know what the explanation is
of the intellgent designer that produced the cosmos but that doesnt in anyway count
against the credability of the hypothesis that the complex order in the universe is
best explained by there being an intelligent designer in the universe.  What are
your thoughts.

Ahh yes. Well even if the earth was proven 100 percent to be 6000yrs old and every scientist agrees, I'd still not believe in god. I simply don't believe in a heaven or hell. I don't believe in an afterlife at all. I also don't believe that Jesus walked on water, and did all those miracles. That, to me,  seems even more far fetched then the big bang theory.
 1. http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/
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Offline deconvertedone

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2009, 10:18:26 PM »
I have no clue either, but I do know that the god of Abraham had nothing to do with it.  If he was powerful enough to create the universe and everything in it, why couldn't he write a book without so many errors in it?
The memory of my own suffering has prevented me from ever shadowing one young soul with the superstition of the Christian religion.
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Offline Hermes

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2009, 10:31:31 PM »
I was wondering that since atheists do not believe in a creator than how do you
think the universe was created?

I don't know, I'm not a Cosmologist.  They might know.  You should ask them.

If you say the big bang, then this is a good scientific reason yet how does something come out of nothing?

Who says that?  Seriously.  I hear this all the time, and I can't think of a single non-Muslim or non-Christian appoligist that says "the universe came out of nothing".

There is no need to have an explanation of an explanation, if you did there would be an infinite regress of explanations for the original explanation.

That's not an issue for me.  Is it for you?

You may not know what the explanation is of the intellgent designer that produced the cosmos but that doesnt in anyway count against the credability of the hypothesis that the complex order in the universe is best explained by there being an intelligent designer in the universe.  What are your thoughts.

I have no idea what you just wrote.  Want to give another try?
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Dkit

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2009, 05:02:35 PM »
Wow.  This person used a form of "explain" twelve times.  Impressive.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2009, 05:28:56 PM »
I'll get round to replying when the OP tells me who created the creator - I mean, he seems pretty complex - the sort of thing that could be created only by a... oh, just a minute...  &)
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2009, 05:37:43 PM »
Wow.  This person used a form of "explain" twelve times.  Impressive.

There you go with your "explain" fetish again.

Why can't you just be into ball gags and leather like a normal christian girl?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Dkit

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2009, 05:53:35 PM »
Wow.  This person used a form of "explain" twelve times.  Impressive.

There you go with your "explain" fetish again.

Why can't you just be into ball gags and leather like a normal christian girl?
Oh, the memories. 
"The Bible is a Banquet table not a snack tray!" - Anonymous Facebook User

Offline Graybeard

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2009, 06:26:57 PM »
I think I've found the answer as to how the Universe was created:

http://www.mythome.org/creatafr.html

Ethiopia:
Wak was the creator god who lived in the clouds. He kept the vault of the heavens at a distance from the earth and covered it with stars. He was a benefactor and did not punish. When the earth was flat Wak asked man to make his own coffin, and when man did this Wak shut him up in it and pushed it into the ground. For seven years he made fire rain down and the mountains were formed. Then Wak unearthed the coffin and man sprang forth, alive. Man tired of living alone, so Wak took some of his blood, and after four days, the blood became a woman whom the man married. They had 30 children, but the man was ashamed of having so many so he hid 15 of them. Wak then made those hidden children into animals and demons.

Now I don't know about anyone else, but it works for me...  &)
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Emily

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2009, 06:33:14 PM »
Here is my answer for the creation of the universe.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVbnciQYMiM[/youtube]

It was all done by The thing that made the things for which there is no known maker and that causes and directs the events that we can't otherwise explain and doesn't need to have been made and is the one thing from which you can ask for things that no human can give and without whom we can't be fully happy and is unlimited by all the laws of physics and never began and will never finish and is invisible but actually everywhere at once and who is so perfect that even if he killed millions of people including babies he'd still be perfect and who could even make a virgin pregnant if he wanted to.

haha, I love NonStampCollector
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Offline Irish

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2009, 07:04:58 PM »
I was wondering that since atheists do not believe in a creator than how do you
think the universe was created?

Must the universe "be created" at all?  It is entirely possible that the universe just simply exists.  No creation, no reason for its' existence, and no mastermind controlling its' fate.  The universe could just be.

Quote
If you say the big bang, then this is a good scientific reason yet how does something come out of nothing?

The Big Bang Theory[1] does not state this.  "Something from nothing" is a misunderstanding of the theory peddled around by misinformed creationists to try and exploit a supposed weakness they think they have discovered.  It's too bad that the theory does not express any "something from nothing" reasoning.

By the Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy[2] we know three things:

1.) Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed
2.) The amount of matter and energy in the universe is fixed
3.) The two can interconvert between each other; that is to say, matter can be converted to energy and energy can be converted to matter.

Quote
If God does not exist according to you, then there was nothing in the universe, do you really beleive that something like the big bang could all of a suddenly happen?  Also you might then say that if there is a God then who created Him?

A riddle for you:

Where did the universe come from?  Some say the answer is God.  But if we are to go forth we must ask the next question; where did God come from?  If we find this question unanswerable then why not save a step and conclude that God always existed.  But if God has always existed then why not save another step and conclude that the universe has always existed.[3]
 1. http://www.big-bang-theory.com/
 2. http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/Chemistry/Generalchemistry/Energy/LawofConservation/LawofConservation.htm
 3. Paraphrased from my memory from Dr. Carl Sagan:
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 07:07:53 PM by Irish »
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline Odin

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2009, 07:11:36 PM »
I was wondering that since atheists do not believe in a creator than how do you
think the universe was created?  If you say the big bang, then this is a good scientific
reason yet how does something come out of nothing?...

The universe might have always been here.  That is, the universe might be eternal instead of temporal.  It's a hard concept.

The "big bang" that Einstein's theories gave rise to might be the latest iteration of the expansion and contraction of the universe.  The universe bangs, expands, slows and collapses back onto itself, resulting in the next big bang.  This could have been going on forever.

Ergo, no creation, and ergo, no creator required.

Odin, King of the Gods

Offline Hermes

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Re: How was the universe created? [#1513]
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2009, 07:18:05 PM »
haha, I love NonStampCollector

Indeed.  The fountain of ignorance has been discovered!
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer