Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.

[LonestarGrandad]

Who I Am:  
A 43 year old man who has been on an intellectual journey that has culminated in my arrival as a Rational Person

Who I used to be:  
A true believer in the one true God.  A Christian who grew up believing everything I read in God's Holy Word.  A minister and preacher who gave his first sermon at the age of 14.  A fierce believer in the power of prayer and laying on of hands.  A practitioner of the "gifts of the Spirit" and a believer in others who possessed these "gifts of the Spirit."  I was happy, my life had purpose, God had a plan for me and I knew that He loved me because I had a personal relationship with Him through his Only Son, Jesus Christ.

The last in a long series of epiphanies that finally opened my eyes.  
As a teenager, I developed a severe allergy.  Spontaneously, and with no warning, I would break out in great patches of hives all over my body.  My eyes would swell shut, my hands would swell up, my face would swell and contort, my lips would grow to 3 times their normal size, and all of this at a moment's notice.  I may be in the middle of high school, or in the middle of church, or on a date, or with friends.  I never knew when it was going to happen and it practically ruined my teenage years.  Most teenagers only have to worry about acne.  I had to worry about suddenly turning into the elephant man.

Since I believed the Bible, I believed in the power of prayer.  Countless people prayed for me all over the state of Texas.  Faith healers layed hands on me and sent me prayer cloths.  Prophets prophesied that God was going to do something glorious through all of this.  People who had the "gift of knowledge" spoke a "word of knowledge" over me how God had great plans for me and a great ministry.  For years I prayed and believed.  God hadn't said "yes", and no one had said He said "no" so He must be answering "wait."  So I prayed, believed, and waited.

In the meantime, I grew older, got married, dealt with outbreaks, and took benedryl.  For years, different people would pray for me or offer the latest “word of knowledge” from God.  For years, I believed and waited.  But slowly the questions began to infiltrate my faith.  Slowly, rational thought began to replace faith.  In all aspects of my religious experience I began to ask questions I never allowed myself to ask.  Then one day, a doctor stumbled upon the answer to my physical and spiritual battles.

I had gone to see another allergy specialist ( an earlier doctor had not been able to isolate my particular allergen) to try to get some relief from this near debilitating phenomenon.  He ran all the prick tests and nothing was conclusive.  As I was leaving, almost as an afterthought, he said I might be allergic to aspirin.  The only way to tell was to not take it for six months and then take it one time and see if I had a reaction.  I waited the six months, and then I popped two pills.  The reaction was almost instantaneous!  

Bingo!  I was allergic to aspirin.  Since that day, I have not taken aspirin and my life has completely changed.  

As I reached middle age, I began to realize that I never needed a miracle.  I didn't need God to change my DNA or cure some problem within, or change my chemical makeup.  I didn't need God to give me eyesight, or cleanse leprosy, or regenerate a missing limb. All this lonely teenager needed was his loving God to tell one of his Servants to give him a simple word:  “Don't take aspirin.”

This loving God could have totally changed my life with those three words.  He didn't need to walk on water to get my attention.  All He needed to do was give me a dream, speak in my ear, tell somebody else.  But just get those three words to me.  But He didn't.  

This final revelation (among many others) brought me to a crossroads in my life.  I had two choices.  Either God hates me or He is imaginary.  Since I am too much fun for anyone to hate, the answer became crystal clear to me for the first time in my life:  God  must be imaginary.  

If He really existed and loved me, He could have shown me with the tiniest of gestures.  I didn't need a miracle, just a moment.  I never got either and now that I am viewing life through rational eyes I see why.  Not only am I free from all the questions, I am also free from the burden that there might be something wrong with me that would keep a loving God from throwing me a crumb.

 I am not a Christian, I am not a sinner, I am not a rebel, I am not an atheist.  I am a rational person.

[Emily]

Thanks for the story, and welcome to the boards.

As I was reading it I got to thinking about what doctors are able to do. You should read this post;
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=6994.0

Itactually links to an outside source. It shows where god has failed, and where doctors should get all the credit. (Unfortunately, even in medicine God gets the glory)

[deconvertedone]

Very interesting story and I enjoyed reading it.  Congratulations on your "seeing the light" and welcome to the forum.

[none]

LonestarGrandad, hello.

[LonestarGrandad]

Thanks for the welcome everyone.  Being Rational feels a little precarious but also liberating.  Thanks for the link above.  Miracles do happen, they just involve good people.  Flesh and blood people.

[kin hell]

Welcome LoneStarGrandad

Great story, nightmare ride for anyone, glad you got a doctor with expansive thinking, even better the "great deceiver realisation" .

[Mar]

LonestarGrandad, thanks for sharing your story.

[none]

LonestarGrandad, it is rare that I meet someone who proclaims to be rational and truly is.
only a self identified narcissist can truly be narcissistic regardless of any label given by others.
check some of my topics PLEASE.

[LonestarGrandad]

Imagine my utter consternation at disappointing you with my claim of rationality.

[none]

thus, I am none.
hello?

[William]

A fierce believer in the power of prayer and laying on of hands.  

Hi LonestarGrandad, your story is fascinating and I'm glad you discovered you allergen and, more importantly, escaped from mental bondage.

Maybe it's too early to get into serious questions.  But what the heck - your qualifications are perfect.  

For some reason I always doubted miracles even when I was a Christian.  I observed some "miracles" being performed and thought they were just claims - not demonstrated fact - but the door to belief was still slightly ajar.  Then one time I actually saw a clear fake trick performed (leg growing by two inches) in front of a large audience. The deceit of it was staggering to me - I was gobsmacked - but dozens of people around me went waving their arms in the air down to the front to "give" themselves to Jesus.  

So it puzzles me how people involved in the performance of miracles view them and believe in them.  
What did you see, at that time, in the "power of prayer and laying on of hands"?
What do you think of that type of thing when you see it now?

Thanks
William

[LonestarGrandad]

A fierce believer in the power of prayer and laying on of hands. 

When I say I was a fierce believer, I mean that I simply believed without question.  The Bible said it, I believed that the Bible was the Word of God, so it must be true.  If Jesus said that I could lay hands on the sick and they would recover, I simply believed it to be so.  So I prayed for people.  I was totally sincere.  I fully expected God to answer prayer.  And I believed that He had.

I knew that there were fake ministers out there.  I saw W.V. Grant pull that same trick (the growing leg) at a packed church in Dallas, Texas. 

But I was different from the charlatans and fakes that used God's word to get rich because I truly believed what I was saying.  To me it wasn't a sham or trick.  God said it, I believed it, no matter what the evidence showed.  And there were times when we truly believed that God had worked a miracle.  (little things like headaches going away, someone getting a job, depression leaving, family conflicts solved, etc.)  Looking back on it now I can see that these were merely coincidences, or natural occurrences, or we were simply seeing what we wanted to see, but they happened just enough to keep us believing – just enough to keep the delusion alive.

My wife and I wear glasses, always have.  One time she wanted prayer for her eyesight because Jesus said if 2 or 3 of us agreed and believed, it would be done.  Since we were believers, we believed.  So we prayed for her and she truly believed that God had “touched” her.  Her eyesight may not be perfect without her glasses but God was going to complete the job.  Why wouldn't he?  He loved us and said He would answer our prayers.  So she decided to stand on her faith and trust God.  She claimed her healing and believed it was so.  She stopped wearing glasses.  And for months it seemed that God was a man of His word.  It was all true, “Ask believing and you shall receive.”  What a miracle!  God had healed my wife's eyesight!  (By the way, it truly would have been a miracle, she is legally blind in one eye and has it pretty bad in the other.)

Then one day she got pulled over by a cop because her inspection sticker was out.  The cop noticed that she had a vision restriction on her license.  So he asked her why she wasn't wearing her glasses.  She didn't even hesitate to tell the policeman that God had healed her eyes.  So the good officer told her to read a sign across the street.  My wife couldn't read it.  She ended up calling someone to come get her because the policeman wouldn't let her drive away.  You would think that this would crush a believer and show them that God doesn't answer prayer.  But it wasn't God's fault, my wife believed that she just didn't have enough faith.  She would need to pray more, fast more, read more, get closer to God.  And this is how the delusion continues.

But you can only delude yourself for so long, or so you think.  It is amazing how long you can go making excuses for God.  And the reason you do it is because you want, so badly, to believe that there is a God up there that loves you and that will take care of you and that will answer your prayers.  Your need to believe this is so great that you will make every excuse under the sun for why He hasn't answered your prayer.  Not believing in Him is simply not an option because you want to believe in Him so badly.  And some people never stop making excuses for God.  They go their entire life and never allow themselves to look at the situation rationally.

So to answer your question:  I was simply dumb enough to believe what I read in the Bible, plain and simple.  And when it didn't come true, I made excuses and blamed myself.  Until one day I could no longer blame myself for God's shortcomings.  That is when I began to see the light.

[LonestarGrandad]

What did you see, at that time, in the "power of prayer and the laying on of hands?"

At the time I saw the wonder and excitement of a God who would answer your prayers and work miracles.  I wanted it to be true.  I convinced myself it was true in spite of everything.

What do you think of that type of thing when you see it now?

It turns my stomach when I see people manipulated by ministers who obviously don't believe and use the hopes of others  for their own selfish gain.  And it makes me feel sorry for people who still allow themselves to be deluded into believing what is so apparently not true.

[mram]

Congratulations for opening the eye of reason. i have similar stories, but not allergies. mine were suicide attempts that failed again and again and they weren't just ordinary slash a wrist attempts. Mine were things like swallowing arsenic, shooting massive amounts of heroin, etc., and for years i thought god was saving me. I finally concluded i was just either not swallowing enough, not shooting enough and doctors were actually catching me at the last minute (which happened several times as well) and not the imaginary boogieman saving me so i could tell others of these so called miracles.
For now I've given up on suicide, but i never know what attempt might loom over the horizon, but I stopped putting faith in the boogie man.

[kevyrat69]

Ah LonestarGranddad,

I didn't have that kind of thing happen to me when I changed my ideas about things.

I am both happy for you and sad for you in that you found things about no god.  The reason I say sad it because I thought for myself is that my belief was something I could fall back on in a time of stress and uncertianty in my life  Also I feel kind of left out from people around me in that I know how life really is and that I just cannot believe in there god.

Welcome and hang in there.  Keep coming back and checking out different places to support your rational thoughts.

Kevin

[William]

LonestarGrandad, thanks for your answers.  Honestly written and VERY enlightening.
I'm so pleased to share your rational company here.

[Mar]

Congratulations for opening the eye of reason. i have similar stories, but not allergies. mine were suicide attempts that failed again and again and they weren't just ordinary slash a wrist attempts. Mine were things like swallowing arsenic, shooting massive amounts of heroin, etc., and for years i thought god was saving me. I finally concluded i was just either not swallowing enough, not shooting enough and doctors were actually catching me at the last minute (which happened several times as well) and not the imaginary boogieman saving me so i could tell others of these so called miracles.
For now I've given up on suicide, but i never know what attempt might loom over the horizon, but I stopped putting faith in the boogie man.

I'm glad that you are okay now.

[LonestarGrandad]

Thanks to everyone for all the support.  I find it interesting that no Christians have weighed in on my story.  But then I have talked to Christians in person (including my own mother) about my story and none of them quite know what to say.  It's one thing to argue and debate what people "believe."  It is an entirely different thing to try and answer someones true experience with the usual Christian platitudes.  They simply don't seem to apply very well.  But I welcome any Christian to try and explain God's actions (or rather inaction) as it applies to my own personal experience. 

I have many experiences from 30 years of trying to be a Christian.  The only thing I can say about them is "What a waste." 

[Operator_A25]

Good story, LoneStarGrandad!  Thanks for sharing.

[mram]

They'll probably start telling you it's all been test time. Use a No 2 pencil, No peeking at your neighbors bible, show all your work and turn your paper over when finished...I guess. 

[screwtape]

Thank you for sharing, Lonestar.  It sounds like your wife was on the delusion bandwagon with you.  I am curious, did she hop off with you, or is she still on it?

[LonestarGrandad]

It sounds like your wife was on the delusion bandwagon with you.  I am curious, did she hop off with you, or is she still on it?

Fortunately, both of us started asking questions at the same time.  My wife, of 25 years, is my best friend and in spite of our religious experiences, I am proud to say we are still best friends.  Now, we count on each other more than ever.  We are making the absolute best of the life we have.  Instead of looking to an eternal future we are not wasting one day.   Wish everyone could see things as clearly.

[screwtape]

I am glad to hear that.  It can be problematic when one person comes to their senses and the other does not.

[kevyrat69]

Fortunately, both of us started asking questions at the same time.  My wife, of 25 years, is my best friend and in spite of our religious experiences, I am proud to say we are still best friends.  Now, we count on each other more than ever.  We are making the absolute best of the life we have.  Instead of looking to an eternal future we are not wasting one day.   Wish everyone could see things as clearly.

I am so happy for you Lonestar!!!  I have to tell you that having someone that has some of the same feelings and can relate with you and changed with you is the most wonderful thing for anybody!!!

[superfly]

welcome to the dark-side,  Lonestargrandad. 

that was an amazing story.

[inveni0]

If He really existed and loved me, He could have shown me with the tiniest of gestures.  I didn't need a miracle, just a moment.  I never got either and now that I am viewing life through rational eyes I see why.  Not only am I free from all the questions, I am also free from the burden that there might be something wrong with me that would keep a loving God from throwing me a crumb.

 I am not a Christian, I am not a sinner, I am not a rebel, I am not an atheist.  I am a rational person.

You're also a liar.  You were never devoted to the Bible, else you would have remembered the story of Job.  You would have remembered the passages of Isaiah.  You would have remembered the predicaments of Paul and Silas.

If you are not a liar, then you are simply still in your living purgatory.  God will help you, as soon as you find the will to praise Him, even in suffering.  I know...it doesn't sound rational.  But if you aren't a liar, then you know it's true.  You've just been distracted.

[Ananukia]

If He really existed and loved me, He could have shown me with the tiniest of gestures.  I didn't need a miracle, just a moment.  I never got either and now that I am viewing life through rational eyes I see why.  Not only am I free from all the questions, I am also free from the burden that there might be something wrong with me that would keep a loving God from throwing me a crumb.

  I am not a Christian, I am not a sinner, I am not a rebel, I am not an atheist.  I am a rational person.

You're also a liar.  You were never devoted to the Bible, else you would have remembered the story of Job.  You would have remembered the passages of Isaiah.  You would have remembered the predicaments of Paul and Silas.

If you are not a liar, then you are simply still in your living purgatory.  God will help you, as soon as you find the will to praise Him, even in suffering.  I know...it doesn't sound rational.  But if you aren't a liar, then you know it's true.  You've just been distracted.

You tell him, Paladin of the Silver hand, inveni0!

[LonestarGrandad]

You're also a liar.  You were never devoted to the Bible, else you would have remembered the story of Job.  You would have remembered the passages of Isaiah.  You would have remembered the predicaments of Paul and Silas.

If you are not a liar, then you are simply still in your living purgatory.  God will help you, as soon as you find the will to praise Him, even in suffering.  I know...it doesn't sound rational.  But if you aren't a liar, then you know it's true.  You've just been distracted.

Thank you for your "Christ Like Spirit".  You say I am a liar because I don't equate Gods' total ambivalence towards me as a Job like test, or a Paul and Silas Like test.  My answer to you is that in close to 30 years of believing in God and praising Him and all of the other, He never once did anything for me - like He did for Job or Paul and Silas.  After decades of being a follower, I realized that God was not reciprocal in our relationship.  But thanks again for the judgement.  It is a nice reminder of how peaceful my life has become since I left the fold of believers.

[none]

not devoted to the bible...
I guess without the bible god doesn't exist.