Author Topic: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.  (Read 21178 times)

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2009, 07:43:29 AM »
Tell me...what did God do for Job after killing his family, destroying his livelihood and cursing him with boils?

Won the bet between him and satan?  Undo all the horrible thngs that he allowed satan to do to win that bet?

Yhwh did not undo the things that happened.  It did not ressurect the children that were killed.  It "replaced" them with new ones, as if people you love can just be replaced.  It "blessed" Job with more wealth. 

Whether or not it was yhwh or Job who actually did those things is up for debate.  I presume Job made his own children the way they have always been made and yhwh just abstained from murdering them this time.  Same for his wealth of cattle and goats.


I am not sure why anyone is bothering to continue conversation with inveni0.  He has a mental illness.  It is unfair of you to expect to have a rational discussion.  I think that has been amply demonstrated, what with all the talk about demons and posession.  It will only frustrate both of you.
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Offline LonestarGrandad

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2009, 08:27:00 AM »
Yhwh did not undo the things that happened.  It did not ressurect the children that were killed.  It "replaced" them with new ones, as if people you love can just be replaced.  It "blessed" Job with more wealth. 

Screwtape, what an insightful take on God's "blessing Job" with more children.  I never thought of it as Him replacing them.  How callous!  I have 2 grown daughters and they are irreplaceable.  Just another example of my buying the whole "God is love" thing for way too long.  Thanks again.
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #60 on: June 29, 2009, 08:45:42 AM »
This whole liar business smacks of "way of the master" street preaching bullshit. How is it that if someone has told a lie a few times or even once in their life, they are a liar?

I did some electrical work in my house twice. Does that make me an electrician?

The word liar implies a pathology, and pattern of repetition. If snakeoil salemen want to sell you a cure, they have to convince you pretty quick that you have the disease.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline inveni0

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2009, 08:51:48 AM »
I understand the aspirin comment.  I just think you're being unreasonable.  I'm allergic to coconut...I found that out the hard way.  Never once did it even cross my mind to blame God for not giving me a handbook with all of my earthly weakness laid out and numbered.

You are missing the entire point of this thread.  I am not blaming God for not giving me a handbook.

This site claims that since God doesn't work miracles, He doesn't exist.  This thread is my response to that supposition.

If the Bible is true, if God answers prayer, if anything we ask believing we shall receive, if God knows how to give His children what they need more than we do, if God talks to us through a still small voice, if God will heal the sick, give sight to the blind, raise up the dead, if we can do all the works that Jesus did and more because He went to the Father, if Peter's shadow could heal the sick, if Paul could be bitten by a serpent and not die and if all the other miraculous things in the Bible are true . . . then God would be doing these things today.

But my personal story doesn't require God to do any of these miraculous things.  I am simply stating the fact that over the course of decades of being a steadfast believer, God could have shown Himself to be what the bible says He is and given me a moment of His attention.  Not a miracle, just a moment.

If not a miracle, then what?  You complain because he hasn't been vocal (would that not be a miracle)?  It sounds like you've simply realized that God isn't the "God" that church claims him to be.  Congratulations.  But that doesn't mean that there is no God.  How will you ever know the truth if you resign yourself to only allowing God to fit in Church's little box?

And, finally, about God giving you a moment of his time...  How many pathetic quitters did God ever give a moment to?  God rewards the strong and bold.  You sound like a whiny wimp.  Suck it up.  The men in the Bible were apostles, prophets, etc.  Perhaps God revealed himself to them because he knew they wouldn't pee their pants at a flash of light.  It sounds like you want a Damascus Road Experience, but from the sound of it, you wouldn't even be able to cope with such a thing.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #62 on: June 30, 2009, 09:15:47 AM »
How will you ever know the truth if you resign yourself to only allowing God to fit in Church's little box?

I'm half-way there with you.  I would word it thusly: "How will you ever know the truth?"  and cut it short there.  Because how can you know the truth about a god that is supposedly inscrutable? About a god that does not talk to us or interact unambiguously?  How can you know if the spirit is with you or if it is just a draught in the building?  How can you know if the illiterate savages whose traditions were recorded in the bible were telling the truth?  You cannot.

And, finally, about God giving you a moment of his time...  How many pathetic quitters did God ever give a moment to?  God rewards the strong and bold. 

Quote from: mat 5:5
5Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

You sound like a whiny wimp.  Suck it up.  The men in the Bible were apostles, prophets, etc.  Perhaps God revealed himself to them because he knew they wouldn't pee their pants at a flash of light.  It sounds like you want a Damascus Road Experience, but from the sound of it, you wouldn't even be able to cope with such a thing.

That's it.  Try to shame him to the lord.  Then again, you are crazy afterall...
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #63 on: June 30, 2009, 10:31:14 AM »
He's not crazy, he's going to fly me and an amputee to where he lives then magically regenrate the limb. That is, if he has any faith at all, or the back-bone to return to the thread he ran away from.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline LonestarGrandad

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2009, 10:33:42 AM »
And, finally, about God giving you a moment of his time...  How many pathetic quitters did God ever give a moment to?  God rewards the strong and bold.  You sound like a whiny wimp.  Suck it up.  The men in the Bible were apostles, prophets, etc.  Perhaps God revealed himself to them because he knew they wouldn't pee their pants at a flash of light.  It sounds like you want a Damascus Road Experience, but from the sound of it, you wouldn't even be able to cope with such a thing.

inveni0,
You are a wonderful example of what a Christian is.   Keep up the good work!
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."  Soren Kierkegaard

Offline LonestarGrandad

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2009, 11:04:42 AM »
inveni0,

May Elohim the Lord of Hosts bless you mightily!  Your final words to me have had a miraculous effect.  Between you and the Holy Ghost I am now convicted of all my past unbelief.  You really must be high up in God's army!  I don't know how I could have gone astray but you have certainly lead me back home.  Thanks to you and your Christian example and attitude I am now back in the fold. 

Thank you!  Thank you!  Thank you!


IDIOT!
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Offline Omen

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2009, 11:14:47 AM »
It sounds like you've simply realized that God isn't the "God" that church claims him to be.

That the bible claims god to be, not the church.

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  Congratulations.  But that doesn't mean that there is no God.

A logical negation of an idea does mean that that idea is fallacious and making the conclusion that that thing does not exist as defined is entirely rational/logic/responsible.


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  How will you ever know the truth if you resign yourself to only allowing God to fit in Church's little box?

Bible's little box.

If you are going to claim god is something else then you essentially have to engage in redefining that god from entirely your own arbitrary subjective imagination.  Which would lead us to the next problem of god being imaginary.  I would hope you would accompany that claim about god with reason, information ( evidence ), and logic.. but somehow I doubt it.
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Offline William

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2009, 11:17:47 AM »
God rewards the strong and bold. 



Deliver us from NONGS  &)
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Offline Dominic

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2009, 01:03:29 PM »

If He really existed and loved me, He could have shown me with the tiniest of gestures.  I didn't need a miracle, just a moment.  I never got either and now that I am viewing life through rational eyes I see why.  Not only am I free from all the questions, I am also free from the burden that there might be something wrong with me that would keep a loving God from throwing me a crumb.


You seem to be making an underlying assumption that any suffering is bad and that any half-decent God must end all suffering immediately or else that God must hate the poor suffering person to allow them to suffer more than for the briefest moment.

If so, this is an erroneous assumption.  Suffering is not all bad.  Some suffering can lead to great good.  An athlete for example will often experience suffering during training (no pain no gain) but through accepting that suffering can achieve potential greatness.

A parent may suffer for a child eg getting up more than once each night to feed or soothe a crying baby.  Obviously a greater good is achieved through such difficulties of life.

Often some of the best things in life are only achieved or appreciated after some hardship or suffering has been experienced.

'A good God' would focus on the good end point rather than preventing any difficulties or troubles on the path to that end destination.

Offline Omen

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2009, 01:12:46 PM »
Red herring.

A god, being omnipotent and omniscient, need not include suffering regardless if it is viewed as good or bad.  The only relevant problem here is that a god does not instantly attain through its absolute ability to do so.  There are also deeper issues in that the context of the religion your claiming paints certain realities that occur as being antithetical to that gods desires.  The question can simply be reworded.

Your response simply downplays suffering as it relates to our existence and attempts to justify the end goal by presuming a greater purpose that ultimately doesn't answer that question.  It simply begs the same question again.  Even if a god existed that allowed suffering to occur, then that itself would be sufficient reason to identify it as in opposition to our existence as humans.  Good or bad, its concerns are entirely alien to us and that just makes it worse philosophically speaking.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2009, 01:22:07 PM »
You can then make another philosophically half-witted mistake and conclude on appeals to choice.

However, choice is just as bad an option as trying to appeal to a greater purpose.  The greater purpose is negated by the logical fact that god would have the ability to do absolutely anything instantly.  To suggest anything less is to beg the question of why.  Choice does a similar thing in that it makes the pleading appeal meaningless as a deciding factor for the end goal.  The reason for this is that choice is limited to individuals being asked by other individuals to make a choice about something they know not and that they do not even know that they have too.  The difference between the two individuals is not what they know, but what they randomly attach onto outside of any appeal/question for what may be true.  In the end you have a group of people that made choice A without any relevant information and you had people that made choice B without any relevant information.

It would be the same in purpose as if you simply pre-selected group A or B without even bothering to ask them.  Which just begs the question of how is choice relevant in this situation where you do not have the information to know what you're asked to choose or that you even need make a choice?
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Offline LonestarGrandad

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2009, 01:24:51 PM »

If He really existed and loved me, He could have shown me with the tiniest of gestures.  I didn't need a miracle, just a moment.  I never got either and now that I am viewing life through rational eyes I see why.  Not only am I free from all the questions, I am also free from the burden that there might be something wrong with me that would keep a loving God from throwing me a crumb.


You seem to be making an underlying assumption that any suffering is bad and that any half-decent God must end all suffering immediately or else that God must hate the poor suffering person to allow them to suffer more than for the briefest moment.

If so, this is an erroneous assumption.  Suffering is not all bad.  Some suffering can lead to great good.  An athlete for example will often experience suffering during training (no pain no gain) but through accepting that suffering can achieve potential greatness.

A parent may suffer for a child eg getting up more than once each night to feed or soothe a crying baby.  Obviously a greater good is achieved through such difficulties of life.

Often some of the best things in life are only achieved or appreciated after some hardship or suffering has been experienced.
'A good God' would focus on the good end point rather than preventing any difficulties or troubles on the path to that end destination.

First of all, I do not believe that all suffering is bad.  I also don't believe that God MUST end all suffering immediately.  In the context of my story, my point was that if there is a God who claims to answer prayer and He has the power to work miracles, my need was simple.  It didn't even require a miracle.  All it required was for him to get some knowledge to me that I didn't know.

Suffering is not all bad.  I just finished working out.  Believe me, I suffered.  But it is for the good and I even enjoyed it.

There were plenty of  times when my kids suffered and I knew it was for their own good.  They grew up hearing me tell them to face their fear.  You can't face your fears without some suffering.  We both agree on this.

But If my kids were sick, I wouldn't hesitate to tell them to lie on a heating pad, or vomit if they needed to, or anything that was within my power.  And if it wasn't in my power, I wouldn't hesitate to get them medical attention.

If God wanted me to suffer by not driving a new car or by not finding that perfect wife, or a thousand other things in life, I can understand.  But if it was within His grasp to help me without even needing to heal me, it makes me wonder. 

And while it is true that a good God would focus on the good end point, it is also true that Christians will readily tell you that he answers prayer.  His own book says that He will answer prayer.  My point was that if (through my experience) God could speak to me through various ministers about all other things in my life, why couldn't he speak to me about this one thing.  According to these ministers, He wasn't averse to telling me other things that He knew about me.  Why not this?

Which brings me to the statement, I didn't need a miracle, just a moment.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."  Soren Kierkegaard

Offline Mar

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #72 on: July 01, 2009, 12:20:41 AM »
LonestarGrandad, great post.

Omen, good post.

Dominic, suffering happens because it's part of our reality. We are flawed humans on this flawed world. We try to make the best of every situation because if we didn't we'd just give up on life. However, suffering is not necessary if an all-powerful/all-knowing/all-loving God is behind everything. If you had a child and you could prevent this child from suffering, wouldn't you? Of course, you would. Because you are human being and you know how it feels to suffer.

God created us a certain way. We are supposed to be "below" him when it comes to our bodies and minds, so God created us so that we are "missing" things that we could have had had we been made like him. God could have made it so we didn't have to suffer. God could have made it so we got to a "good end point" without having to suffer. Is it a God or not?

God's current plan isn't working at all because sometimes there is not a good end point after the suffering. Sometimes people are so stressed by suffering that they develop mental disorders. Some people end their lives or the lives of others because they obviously can't handle the stress that they have received. That tired woman waking up to feed her baby? She has postpartum depression and she murders her baby. That athlete? Works his ass off, suffers a cardiac arrest, and dies. Good end points? Well, I guess the dead go to Heaven? Yay? While the family on Earth suffers? Yay? I double dare you to defend rape. Alzheimer's? A little kid with cancer?

It's not good to abandon your children and force them to figure out what they are supposed to do on their own. It's not good to abandon your children and let them suffer. We don't do that, but it's okay for God to do that? We would obviously be doing a much better job had God not pretended like he doesn't exist. Maybe that would make some of our "good end points" easier to get to. And of course, knocking out the suffering would be perfect.

Please don't try to justify the actions (or lack thereof) of an all-powerful/all-knowing/all-loving God using the "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" defense. This being is absolutely embarrassing. Suffering is pointless. If this God is allowing suffering, then he doesn't care about us at all. He doesn't care about our pain. He only cares about HIS plan. We're just a game to him. And I do not care about such a God. Such a God is below any human who has ever lived and is unworthy of reverence and worship. Thankfully such a God does not exist.
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Offline Mar

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #73 on: July 01, 2009, 12:57:30 AM »
inveni0, for the last time quit calling LonestarGrandad names. Do not call him a "whiny wimp" just because he left your clearly retarded religion. He has been showing YOU the UTMOST respect and so he deserves the same respect from you. You are speaking to human beings and you are a human being yourself, so get off of your high horse rocking chair. Stop making pathetic excuses for your God. His Bible sucks and he sucks at communicating with people. End of story. This dude needs robotic missionaries like you to do his work for him. No wonder he's inefficient at getting his message across.

He can't even communicate to my PARENTS who are actual Christians. I dare you to call them "whiny wimps." I dare you. That's what I thought. We don't have time to listen to you cry like a baby because you're "special" and emo. Yes, we are scratching at your delusion, but tough shit. Maybe you should remove yourself from WWGHA instead of taking your emoness out on us. Either God taps us on the shoulder or we don't believe in him. We're OPEN to non-retarded evidence but we're not idiots who'll believe shit just because "special" people talk to us about their "special" delusions and show us "special" books. We might as well be Muslims because they have a "special" book, too. Grow up and learn how to speak to adults.
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Offline james456

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #74 on: July 05, 2009, 05:52:38 AM »
can't you see...
its clear as day: an omnipresent omnipotent loving god who rapes and pillages, commits genocide and basically ignores your prayers wants you to seek him.
plus he, god, works in mysterious ways.

[rapes] - physical suffering...don't agree?...Who claims rape when a physical act hasn't been involved?

[pillages] - physical suffering

[genocide] - physical suffering

[basically ignores your prayers] - please share exactly what prayers you've made that have been ignored

[wants you to seek him] - Wants you to be much, much bigger than this temporary physical existence.  Like He is.

Offline Asmoday

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2009, 01:06:51 PM »
[rapes] - physical suffering...don't agree?...Who claims rape when a physical act hasn't been involved?
James, I could provide you with several adresses of rape victims and their close relatives. I´d invite you to speak with them and tell them rape is only physical suffering.
Though in case of the parents of the raped girl, who commited suicide even after a long long therapy, I´d suggest you write down your last will and testament beforehand, because I can already tell, they wouldn´t take your message well...

Oh, and one more thing: Sexual abuse doesn´t need 'a physical act' to scar a person mentally for the rest of their life.

Quote
[pillages] - physical suffering
Ever talked to some people, who have been robbed and have been injured? Many of them need quite some time to "shake it off" and some of them never regain their feeling of security.

But thanks for your insight, from now on we´ll just tell them not to be such wussies, because it was only physical suffering. I´m sure they´ll feel much better after hearing that...  &)

Quote
[genocide] - physical suffering
Oh, yeah, sure. I suppose, you´ll just feel dandy, even if you know some people are out who are not only hellbent on but also perfectly able to kill not only you but also every last member of your family and all people close to you.

Just 'physical suffering'...yeah, right...
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 03:40:10 PM by Asmoday »
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Offline Emily

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #76 on: July 05, 2009, 01:16:52 PM »
It sounds to me that james456 isn't paying any attention to the emotional impact that rape, pillages, and genocide have on their victims. James456, try talking to someone who has post traumatic stress syndrome[1]
 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder
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Offline none

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #77 on: July 05, 2009, 03:28:46 PM »
can't you see...
its clear as day: an omnipresent omnipotent loving god who rapes and pillages, commits genocide and basically ignores your prayers wants you to seek him.
plus he, god, works in mysterious ways.

[rapes] - physical suffering...don't agree?...Who claims rape when a physical act hasn't been involved?

[pillages] - physical suffering

[genocide] - physical suffering

[basically ignores your prayers] - please share exactly what prayers you've made that have been ignored

[wants you to seek him] - Wants you to be much, much bigger than this temporary physical existence.  Like He is.
my mistake, god is imaginary.
the bible condones raping, pillaging, genocide becase it is what god wants... what ever that means.
and yeah seeking god is a paradox.

Offline LonestarGrandad

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #78 on: July 05, 2009, 06:40:28 PM »
Wants you to be much, much bigger than this temporary physical existence.  Like He is.

What if this is not a temporary physical existence?  What if this is all there is to our life?
NOBODY knows for certain what happens after you die.  You can state what you believe happens, but NOBODY can say that they KNOW. 

So if this is all there is, maybe God wants me to get the most out of this life.  Maybe it chaps God's hide to see so many people wasting the life He gave them on the chance that there will be a better one afterwards.  Maybe He considers it the ultimate insult for us to turn up our nose at this life in hopes of getting a better one.  (That is, if you believe He is there in the first place.)
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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #79 on: July 05, 2009, 10:24:43 PM »
You seem to be making an underlying assumption that any suffering is bad and that any half-decent God must end all suffering immediately or else that God must hate the poor suffering person to allow them to suffer more than for the briefest moment.

If so, this is an erroneous assumption.  Suffering is not all bad.  Some suffering can lead to great good.

'A good God' would focus on the good end point rather than preventing any difficulties or troubles on the path to that end destination.

So following this line of thought: when is (Earthly) suffering bad?

Offline james456

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #80 on: July 06, 2009, 10:37:09 AM »
James, I could provide you with several adresses of rape victims and their close relatives. I´d invite you to speak with them and tell them rape is only physical suffering.
Though in case of the parents of the raped girl, who commited suicide even after a long long therapy, I´d suggest you write down your last will and testament beforehand, because I can already tell, they wouldn´t take your message well...

Oh, and one more thing: Sexual abuse doesn´t need 'a physical act' to scar a person mentally for the rest of their life.

Ever talked to some people, who have been robbed and have been injured? Many of them need quite some time to "shake it off" and some of them never regain their feeling of security.

But thanks for your insight, from now on we´ll just tell them not to be such wussies, because it was only physical suffering. I´m sure they´ll feel much better after hearing that...  &)

Oh, yeah, sure. I suppose, you´ll just feel dandy, even if you know some people are out who are not only hellbent on but also perfectly able to kill not only you but also every last member of your family and all people close to you.

Just 'physical suffering'...yeah, right...

Excellent points you’ve made, and all missing my point.  I’ve had a personal friend that was raped, described it to me in vivid detail, and it has made her a better person.  I am also well aware of countless victims that are emotionally scarred by their crimes for life.

Notice I’ve bolded your use of the words, ‘only’ and ‘just,’ and that these words did not appear in my post.

And notice that the common atheist/agnostic complaints against God and the Bible always include some type of physical suffering, indicative of their emphasis on all things physical.

God uses physical suffering in an attempt to point us towards far bigger and better things than the few decades we are on this earth.  There is tremendous hope for all those with a less-than-perfect life:  rape victims, ignored children, unjust imprisonment, lonely, deformed, abandoned…it’s not a matter of not being a “wussie.”  It’s a matter of getting to know your creator and seeing far more than this physical world.

Offline james456

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #81 on: July 06, 2009, 10:46:59 AM »
So if this is all there is, maybe God wants me to get the most out of this life.  Maybe it chaps God's hide to see so many people wasting the life He gave them on the chance that there will be a better one afterwards.  Maybe He considers it the ultimate insult for us to turn up our nose at this life in hopes of getting a better one.  (That is, if you believe He is there in the first place.)

Maybe you are exactly right.  You can make the best of this life and ALSO have an amazing view to the excellent one that is coming.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #82 on: July 06, 2009, 11:48:55 AM »
God uses physical suffering in an attempt to point us towards far bigger and better things than the few decades we are on this earth. 

Hi, james456.  Sorry to butt in.  Why do you suppose an omnipotent being needs to use physical suffering (as well as emotional suffering) to point us toward bigger and better things?   

The key point here is that for an omnipotent being, there are literally an infinite number of other ways to get the job done, none of which include suffering.  For an omnipotent being, there are no obstacles.  So why go the sadistic route?  It is like dog owners in this day and age who beat the shit out of their dogs for peeing on the carpet when we have more effective and more humane ways to do it.

And you said it was an attempt.  That implies it is not always successful. That does not work for me on several levels.  For one, an omnipotent being does not attempt.  It is like Yoda - it does or it does not.  There is no try.  Secondly, why would it attempt?  An omniscient being would know in advance whether its attempt would succeed or fail.  And if it is going to fail, then it is causing completely needless suffering.

If you have said the god you worship is not omnipotent, or it is not good, or it is not omniscient, I missed that, sorry.  If you think your god is omnipotent and good, then you may want to reconsider.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #83 on: July 06, 2009, 11:51:57 AM »
God uses physical suffering in an attempt to point us towards far bigger and better things than the few decades we are on this earth.  There is tremendous hope for all those with a less-than-perfect life:  rape victims, ignored children, unjust imprisonment, lonely, deformed, abandoned…it’s not a matter of not being a “wussie.”  It’s a matter of getting to know your creator and seeing far more than this physical world.

God, an omniscient omnipotent being, can't do that without suffering?
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Offline LonestarGrandad

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #84 on: July 06, 2009, 12:33:31 PM »
So if this is all there is, maybe God wants me to get the most out of this life.  Maybe it chaps God's hide to see so many people wasting the life He gave them on the chance that there will be a better one afterwards.  Maybe He considers it the ultimate insult for us to turn up our nose at this life in hopes of getting a better one.  (That is, if you believe He is there in the first place.)

Maybe you are exactly right.  You can make the best of this life and ALSO have an amazing view to the excellent one that is coming.

How do you know that there is an excellent one coming?  And If I am right, how can I make the best of this life with all this god-sanctioned suffering?
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Offline james456

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #85 on: July 06, 2009, 01:29:28 PM »

screwtape, Omen, LonestarGrandad:


You all made good points, and I will reply as time allows.

Offline Omen

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Re: Either God loathes my very existence or He is imaginary.
« Reply #86 on: July 06, 2009, 01:31:34 PM »

screwtape, Omen, LonestarGrandad:


You all made good points, and I will reply as time allows.

A yes or no would suffice, that doesn't take much time.

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The answer is yes and therefore suffering overall is irrelevant to the end goal since god can have it in anyway god chooses, making your special pleading appeal for a greater purpose just a giant red herring.

OR

The answer is no and therefore god is not omnipotent and contradictory to its own existence.
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