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Offline JstNEarthling

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An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« on: May 31, 2009, 10:17:20 PM »
Well, well, here we are in what I think is the site most relevant to me. I'm an amputee and when my friends and family started to hear about my legs and back and what was going on as far as my health is concerned I was surprised to find my family to be stand offish and well, uncomfortable I guess. Anyway, it was rather strange and they kept it up to this day. I've been an amputee for 5 years now and the only family that has visited or anything is my brother Lane who I had certified to be my caregiver as I was at the point where I needed help at home and out.
 And now to the point. As an amputee I ran into a few christians of course as one would do every day, right? Now most of these guys are ok and won't bother me but while in the hospital I went outside to light up and a group of christians gathered around me and one of them asked if they could pray for me.
 I said "If you really think prayer is real and works then by all means pray, but please pray for the return of my limbs. I left the hospital after 2 weeks, still without legs. I then went home and proceeded to lay around and try to get pain free, an impossibility but nonetheless I tried. A year after and I was in the hospital again and guess who came in my room? Yep, those wonderful praying christians. So, I asked , have you been praying for the return of my legs? Well, they surprised me with a "Daily", it has become a tradition in our church she said.....Still no legs..
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. As an amputee I can testify personally that god ignores me.

Offline William

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2009, 10:31:55 PM »
Well, well, here we are in what I think is the site most relevant to me.

Pleased to meet you JstNEarthling.  And thanks for your courage and honesty in posting your experience. 
I sincerely hope your physical pain has subsided or is under control.
May I ask, were you ever a person of faith?
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Offline none

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2009, 10:33:56 PM »
JstNEarthling, stick around, if you can.

Offline JstNEarthling

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2009, 11:27:14 PM »
William, You know, one usually hears a story about how they were exposed in one way or another to either an extrewmem relgious rite or just read the bible and realized how ignorant and superstitious it is and blah blah blah.. With me it's a bit different in that I've never really believed in a deity of creation or a god that watches every move I make. All I know if in 5th grade at catholic school of all things, I asked while there when told the story of jesus wedding party and turning water into wine.
 I said, err asked, "If jesus was the son of god doesn't he know that wine is alcohol and alcohol is a poison according to my mom and I believe her because my dad used to poison himself every day all day.
 So, I asked if jesus is the son of god why would he give wine to people, doesn't he know there're some like my pop? There was absolute silence for a minute, then the teacher (nun) told me to report to mother superior.  They tried to punish me for questioning the bible but I ran. I ran down the corridor and outside, towards home. Once I got home mom was waiting for me at the front door. UH OH I said to myself, even though I didn't think I did anything wrong just asked a question.
 Unbelievably my mom scolded me but at the same time she said to me, "so, you think you know how god works do you?". I said "no mom, I just asked about the way jesus, being the son of god, would give wine to everyone. I felt he would have at least a few alcoholics in  the crowd.....You know what I mean mom?" Knowing her husband my pop she said to me, Gerald you keep on questioning those fables and I'll admit I'm kinda proud of you"
 She blew me away with that statement. As a matter of fact I was allowed to go to public school after that. (I think the catholics had something to do with it)....2 years later my mom joined the Luthern church. Not me, she never made me go to church nor my siblings of whitch I have 13, ever again unless of course we wanted to.
 So, all in all I've never really been a deity worshiper of any kind, including the devil, horus, mythra, yaweh, Yashua, god, BaAl,  none of them have I actually worship nor have I ritualized any.
  So, suffice it to say that I've never been spiritual or religious or which ever way you wish to say it.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. As an amputee I can testify personally that god ignores me.

Offline William

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2009, 11:47:22 PM »
There was absolute silence for a minute, then the teacher (nun) told me to report to mother superior.  They tried to punish me for questioning the bible but I ran. I ran down the corridor and outside, towards home.

Best use of legs I've read about in a long time  ;)  Thanks for the very insightful and admirable account. 

I wish I had had the balls to run away from the catholic nuns at an early age - they really screwed up my brain as a child.  But in the end their stupidity backfired.  I wrote about my episode here
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Offline Agamemnon

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2009, 11:51:30 PM »
Welcome to the forum, glad to have you!  
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.  --Bertrand Russell

Offline kin hell

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 07:16:23 AM »
Greetings fellow earthling

Quote
she said to me, Gerald you keep on questioning those fables and I'll admit I'm kinda proud of you"

...that's a fine mother bloke.

Elsewhere years ago in another earlier forum, I asked as an experiment, if all the xians out there would pray for me to be converted.
It caused a little ruckus (who can ever predict how they'll take anything), but a number said that they would pray for me, and would get the word out.
I suppose they did, but like you mate, ...I remain unchanged.

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 07:41:31 AM »
JstNEarthling, nice to have you on board.  You may get approached to become our poster child....  ;)

...A year after and I was in the hospital again and guess who came in my room? Yep, those wonderful praying christians. So, I asked , have you been praying for the return of my legs? Well, they surprised me with a "Daily", it has become a tradition in our church she said.....Still no legs..

I'd like a believer to comment - but I suspect it would be either "god answered 'wait'", or noting that as YOU aren't a true believer, god won't do anything for you.  He's nice like that.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline deconvertedone

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2009, 08:37:47 AM »
Great story, welcome to the forum.
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Offline LonestarGrandad

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2009, 11:43:07 AM »
Great story Earthling.  Wish I had possessed your chutzpah at such an early age.  It would certainly have diminished my regrets later on.
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Offline kevyrat69

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2009, 05:06:52 PM »
I too enjoyed your story JAE and I want to welcome you to a great bunch of godless happy folks here.  Your story was inspiring and intelegent.  I hope you can stay and show us how life really is for people that have lost a limb.

Take care and talk with you soon.

Kevin
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whatever people are experiencing when they experience God, it's not something they're perceiving in the external world. It's something their brains are making up.
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Offline Mar

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2009, 02:39:53 AM »
Thank you for sharing your story. Welcome. :D
On Permanent Hiatus. :D

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2009, 03:32:03 AM »
An amputee neither proves or disproves the existence of a God.  Here is my take on why an amputation cannot be "healed":

The body is designed to fight off diseases and illness as well as to heal wounds and injuries.  It's also designed to replenish the worn-out cells with new ones.  It has been designed with many functions in order to restore and sustain physical life.   

Did you know that the brain also contains something called "repair neurons"?  In other words, once your brain has sustained some sort of damage, these repair neurons go to work to try and repair the brain's injury.  The point I’m trying to make is that the body seems to be designed with many defenses and repair mechanisms that rids its self of any potential danger that threatens the viability of human life.   

The amputation of a limb does not pose any threat to the maintaining of a human life.  As a matter of fact, sometimes amputation is done as a means to treat a disease or illness.  In these cases, the “healing” of an amputee would actually interfere with the body’s ridding itself of certain diseases and illnesses through amputation. 

Also, look at it another way: I have had a complete hysterectomy which means that my body has undergone the removal of a cervix, uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries.  The removal of these body parts were done to treat an illness called endometriosis.  Now, why doesn’t “God”, or nature as I prefer to refer to it, allow these body parts to grow back?  Because it would interfere with the riddance of an illness through a hysterectomy.  A hysterectomy is basically the same as an amputation, in that it’s the cutting off and removal of a certain body part through surgery in order to treat an illness.  If “God” cured me of my “hysterectomy” and I regrew back my reproductive organs, then all it would do is interfere with the curing of my illness, endometriosis.

“So, what about amputations that have resulted from an accident rather than surgery?”  you might ask.  How is the body to distinguish amputation resulting from an accident rather than from surgery?  It cannot.  That’s probably why our bodies were not designed to regrow our limbs.  That is, just in case we need to remove our limbs to treat a disease or illness, we do not have to worry about nature regrowing the affected limb, causing the disease or illness to return.

Offline kin hell

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2009, 03:38:34 AM »
An amputee neither proves or disproves the existence of a God.  Here is my take on why an amputation cannot be "healed":

The body is designed to fight off diseases and illness as well as to heal wounds and injuries.  It's also designed to replenish the worn-out cells with new ones.  It has been designed with many functions in order to restore and sustain physical life.   

Did you know that the brain also contains something called "repair neurons"?  In other words, once your brain has sustained some sort of damage, these repair neurons go to work to try and repair the brain's injury.  The point I’m trying to make is that the body seems to be designed with many defenses and repair mechanisms that rids its self of any potential danger that threatens the viability of human life.   

The amputation of a limb does not pose any threat to the maintaining of a human life.  As a matter of fact, sometimes amputation is done as a means to treat a disease or illness.  In these cases, the “healing” of an amputee would actually interfere with the body’s ridding itself of certain diseases and illnesses through amputation. 

Also, look at it another way: I have had a complete hysterectomy which means that my body has undergone the removal of a cervix, uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries.  The removal of these body parts were done to treat an illness called endometriosis.  Now, why doesn’t “God”, or nature as I prefer to refer to it, allow these body parts to grow back?  Because it would interfere with the riddance of an illness through a hysterectomy.  A hysterectomy is basically the same as an amputation, in that it’s the cutting off and removal of a certain body part through surgery in order to treat an illness.  If “God” cured me of my “hysterectomy” and I regrew back my reproductive organs, then all it would do is interfere with the curing of my illness, endometriosis.

“So, what about amputations that have resulted from an accident rather than surgery?”  you might ask.  How is the body to distinguish amputation resulting from an accident rather than from surgery?  It cannot.  That’s probably why our bodies were not designed to regrow our limbs.  That is, just in case we need to remove our limbs to treat a disease or illness, we do not have to worry about nature regrowing the affected limb, causing the disease or illness to return.



Perhaps you didn't understand, it's not about the body being designed or able to grow a limb back, its about the suspicious paradox of no divine intervention in the case of amputees.
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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Offline William

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2009, 06:25:17 AM »

The amputation of a limb does not pose any threat to the maintaining of a human life.  As a matter of fact, sometimes amputation is done as a means to treat a disease or illness.  In these cases, the “healing” of an amputee would actually interfere with the body’s ridding itself of certain diseases and illnesses through amputation. 

Also, look at it another way: I have had a complete hysterectomy which means that my body has undergone the removal of a cervix, uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries.  The removal of these body parts were done to treat an illness called endometriosis.  Now, why doesn’t “God”, or nature as I prefer to refer to it, allow these body parts to grow back?  Because it would interfere with the riddance of an illness through a hysterectomy.  A hysterectomy is basically the same as an amputation, in that it’s the cutting off and removal of a certain body part through surgery in order to treat an illness.  If “God” cured me of my “hysterectomy” and I regrew back my reproductive organs, then all it would do is interfere with the curing of my illness, endometriosis.

Nobody is asking for the restoration of a diseased or smashed limb.  While that would be quite spectacular and newsworthy, it would be a rather strange answer from God to a prayer  &)   All we are asking for is a regular healing.
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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2009, 09:16:25 AM »
Great story, I think it's a good example of how ineffective prayer is, Christians cared and prayed for you, yet no God answered, I think that is quite powerful as demonstration as to why what the bible says about prayer and healing is wrong.

Welcome to the forums and I hope you'll stick around to share your views and experiences. ;)
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Offline xphobe

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2009, 09:28:54 AM »
Thank you for sharing that, JstNEarthling.  And welcome!

Your mother was an amazing person to say what she did in spite of what for her must have been a lifetime of brainwashing :)
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Offline Frank

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2009, 09:30:53 AM »
An amputee neither proves or disproves the existence of a God.  Here is my take on why an amputation cannot be "healed":

The body is designed to fight off diseases and illness as well as to heal wounds and injuries.  It's also designed to replenish the worn-out cells with new ones.  It has been designed with many functions in order to restore and sustain physical life.   

Did you know that the brain also contains something called "repair neurons"?  In other words, once your brain has sustained some sort of damage, these repair neurons go to work to try and repair the brain's injury.  The point I’m trying to make is that the body seems to be designed with many defenses and repair mechanisms that rids its self of any potential danger that threatens the viability of human life.   

The amputation of a limb does not pose any threat to the maintaining of a human life.  As a matter of fact, sometimes amputation is done as a means to treat a disease or illness.  In these cases, the “healing” of an amputee would actually interfere with the body’s ridding itself of certain diseases and illnesses through amputation. 

Also, look at it another way: I have had a complete hysterectomy which means that my body has undergone the removal of a cervix, uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries.  The removal of these body parts were done to treat an illness called endometriosis.  Now, why doesn’t “God”, or nature as I prefer to refer to it, allow these body parts to grow back?  Because it would interfere with the riddance of an illness through a hysterectomy.  A hysterectomy is basically the same as an amputation, in that it’s the cutting off and removal of a certain body part through surgery in order to treat an illness.  If “God” cured me of my “hysterectomy” and I regrew back my reproductive organs, then all it would do is interfere with the curing of my illness, endometriosis.

“So, what about amputations that have resulted from an accident rather than surgery?”  you might ask.  How is the body to distinguish amputation resulting from an accident rather than from surgery?  It cannot.  That’s probably why our bodies were not designed to regrow our limbs.  That is, just in case we need to remove our limbs to treat a disease or illness, we do not have to worry about nature regrowing the affected limb, causing the disease or illness to return.


Isn't this ^ a copy of this http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=7036.msg162474#msg162474
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Offline Dkit

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2009, 09:41:02 AM »
An amputee neither proves or disproves the existence of a God.  Here is my take on why an amputation cannot be "healed":

The body is designed to fight off diseases and illness as well as to heal wounds and injuries.  It's also designed to replenish the worn-out cells with new ones.  It has been designed with many functions in order to restore and sustain physical life.   

Did you know that the brain also contains something called "repair neurons"?  In other words, once your brain has sustained some sort of damage, these repair neurons go to work to try and repair the brain's injury.  The point I’m trying to make is that the body seems to be designed with many defenses and repair mechanisms that rids its self of any potential danger that threatens the viability of human life.   

The amputation of a limb does not pose any threat to the maintaining of a human life.  As a matter of fact, sometimes amputation is done as a means to treat a disease or illness.  In these cases, the “healing” of an amputee would actually interfere with the body’s ridding itself of certain diseases and illnesses through amputation. 

Also, look at it another way: I have had a complete hysterectomy which means that my body has undergone the removal of a cervix, uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries.  The removal of these body parts were done to treat an illness called endometriosis.  Now, why doesn’t “God”, or nature as I prefer to refer to it, allow these body parts to grow back?  Because it would interfere with the riddance of an illness through a hysterectomy.  A hysterectomy is basically the same as an amputation, in that it’s the cutting off and removal of a certain body part through surgery in order to treat an illness.  If “God” cured me of my “hysterectomy” and I regrew back my reproductive organs, then all it would do is interfere with the curing of my illness, endometriosis.

“So, what about amputations that have resulted from an accident rather than surgery?”  you might ask.  How is the body to distinguish amputation resulting from an accident rather than from surgery?  It cannot.  That’s probably why our bodies were not designed to regrow our limbs.  That is, just in case we need to remove our limbs to treat a disease or illness, we do not have to worry about nature regrowing the affected limb, causing the disease or illness to return.


My question would be why God doesn't heal the underlying problem, then regrow the limb?  He's credited with healing, cancer, diverticulitis, arthritis, etc., but he never regrows a limb.  Your claim that the underlying issue would return is useless when compared to the thousands of healings of diseases he is given credit for.  He can create an entire universe and all the galaxies within, but can't manage to manipulate the body tissues and bones needed to give someone back their limb. 
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Offline Airyaman

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2009, 09:47:37 AM »
My question would be why God doesn't heal the underlying problem, then regrow the limb?  He's credited with healing, cancer, diverticulitis, arthritis, etc., but he never regrows a limb.  Your claim that the underlying issue would return is useless when compared to the thousands of healings of diseases he is given credit for.  He can create an entire universe and all the galaxies within, but can't manage to manipulate the body tissues and bones needed to give someone back their limb. 

He's only good with dirt and ribs.
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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2009, 09:58:46 AM »
An amputee neither proves or disproves the existence of a God.  Here is my take on why an amputation cannot be "healed":

The body is designed to fight off diseases and illness as well as to heal wounds and injuries.  It's also designed to replenish the worn-out cells with new ones.  It has been designed with many functions in order to restore and sustain physical life.    

Did you know that the brain also contains something called "repair neurons"?  In other words, once your brain has sustained some sort of damage, these repair neurons go to work to try and repair the brain's injury.  The point I’m trying to make is that the body seems to be designed with many defenses and repair mechanisms that rids its self of any potential danger that threatens the viability of human life.  

The amputation of a limb does not pose any threat to the maintaining of a human life.  As a matter of fact, sometimes amputation is done as a means to treat a disease or illness.  In these cases, the “healing” of an amputee would actually interfere with the body’s ridding itself of certain diseases and illnesses through amputation.  

Also, look at it another way: I have had a complete hysterectomy which means that my body has undergone the removal of a cervix, uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries.  The removal of these body parts were done to treat an illness called endometriosis.  Now, why doesn’t “God”, or nature as I prefer to refer to it, allow these body parts to grow back?  Because it would interfere with the riddance of an illness through a hysterectomy.  A hysterectomy is basically the same as an amputation, in that it’s the cutting off and removal of a certain body part through surgery in order to treat an illness.  If “God” cured me of my “hysterectomy” and I regrew back my reproductive organs, then all it would do is interfere with the curing of my illness, endometriosis.

“So, what about amputations that have resulted from an accident rather than surgery?”  you might ask.  How is the body to distinguish amputation resulting from an accident rather than from surgery?  It cannot.  That’s probably why our bodies were not designed to regrow our limbs.  That is, just in case we need to remove our limbs to treat a disease or illness, we do not have to worry about nature regrowing the affected limb, causing the disease or illness to return.



Who put those illnesses there in the first place? Why do they exist? God doesn't gives us parts we lose back because it's a prevention of illness, but who created the illness in the first and who can cure it with their infinite power? Amputation and removal of body parts is a solutions to a problem humans have had to make because God invented the diseases and he refuses to heal us, despite the promises he leaves in the bible. If God fulfilled his promises then perhaps we wouldn't have to remove limbs, instead we'd pray to God and he'd cure us of our ailments.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 10:06:09 AM by Seppuku »
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Offline Dkit

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2009, 11:33:54 AM »
My question would be why God doesn't heal the underlying problem, then regrow the limb?  He's credited with healing, cancer, diverticulitis, arthritis, etc., but he never regrows a limb.  Your claim that the underlying issue would return is useless when compared to the thousands of healings of diseases he is given credit for.  He can create an entire universe and all the galaxies within, but can't manage to manipulate the body tissues and bones needed to give someone back their limb. 

He's only good with dirt and ribs.
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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2009, 11:35:01 AM »

Who put those illnesses there in the first place? Why do they exist? God doesn't gives us parts we lose back because it's a prevention of illness, but who created the illness in the first and who can cure it with their infinite power? Amputation and removal of body parts is a solutions to a problem humans have had to make because God invented the diseases and he refuses to heal us, despite the promises he leaves in the bible. If God fulfilled his promises then perhaps we wouldn't have to remove limbs, instead we'd pray to God and he'd cure us of our ailments.
Everyone knows God didn't create illness and disease, our sinful nature did.  Duh!  Blasted sins!
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Offline xphobe

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2009, 05:35:15 PM »
He's only good with dirt and ribs.
So, gardens and BBQs it is.

Ha!  God is Hank Hill!
I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is gonna be so pissed when they find out...

Offline Ananukia

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2009, 06:47:08 PM »
        Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
    Where flap the tatters of the King,
    Must die unheard in

        Dim Carcosa.

Offline Dkit

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Re: An amputee proves god doesn't exist
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2009, 09:55:35 AM »
He's only good with dirt and ribs.
So, gardens and BBQs it is.

Ha!  God is Hank Hill!

Isn't Hank's dad an amputee of sorts?

"They opened fire and blew my shins off. Last thing I remember, I beat 'em all to death with a big piece of Fatty. I woke up in a field hospital, and they were sewing my feet to my knees."

If Hank won't heal his own father's amputation, why should we expect him to do it for strangers?

 ;D
"The Bible is a Banquet table not a snack tray!" - Anonymous Facebook User