Author Topic: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?  (Read 85284 times)

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Offline AndyS

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1827 on: February 26, 2010, 03:51:50 AM »
BM
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Offline Pale Rider

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1828 on: March 13, 2010, 09:14:49 AM »
Can you prove the Resurrection of Jesus Christ actually occurred? It seems to me that if a man came back from the dead that there would be more than one book about it.  I mean, seriously, he came back from the dead and the only book about it is the Bible? 


I think it can be demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that the Resurrection of Christ actually occured in history.  And I think William Lane Craig shows this to be true in his numerous debates with highly intelligent atheists and non-believers.

Really? Christianities entire existence hangs on this the "resurrection" if it were proved false then Christianity would go down the tubes.  But if it were not for the 16 other saviours with the same MO this might hold water.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1829 on: March 13, 2010, 09:47:27 AM »
What makes you want to resurrect the dead?
And must we revisit the grave so soon?
Let the living live and the dead remain dead.
And let this thread like the rotting corpse of Jesus remain in the tomb!
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
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Offline Jim

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1830 on: March 13, 2010, 09:54:24 AM »
What makes you want to resurrect the dead?
And must we revisit the grave so soon?
Let the living live and the dead remain dead.
And let this thread like the rotting corpse of Jesus remain in the tomb!

^ heh.  +1
Survey results coming soon!

Offline Inactive_1

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1831 on: June 08, 2010, 06:13:47 PM »
Final Note on this long thread:

Fran is now gone from the forum and won't be returning. He wanted his account deleted, but I denied the request, because I feel it is important to have the person that responded to all of our patient members to have his member name attached to all of his posts for the permanent record.

This is one of the longest continuing debates we have ever had on this forum, and it taxed many members who tried to drill down into Fran's facts (or perceived facts) and were never satisfied at his explanations. It is the highest ranked thread ever by both posts and views. At this time, I am of the mind that there is no convincing evidence that a man named Jesus rose from the dead. But, as with all our debates here, it is for each member to decide for him/her self in the end.

Thanks to all who contributed to this important debate.

If anyone has any final comments for the record, please post them now.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 06:15:43 PM by Admin 1 »

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1832 on: June 09, 2010, 07:14:50 AM »
I just want to repeat myself.

What makes you want to resurrect the dead?
And must we revisit the grave so soon?
Let the living live and the dead remain dead.
And let this thread like the rotting corpse of Jesus remain in the tomb!
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1833 on: June 09, 2010, 08:02:00 AM »
Not suprising that Fran wanted to "annul" this discussion and pretend it never happened.  It is also not suprising that Fran's only source for his "facts", WLC or his minions, never showed up here to support Fran. I wonder how long until we get yet another Christian presenting this nonense again.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1834 on: June 10, 2010, 07:58:51 PM »
Final Note on this long thread:

[...]

If anyone has any final comments for the record, please post them now.

Before coming to a conclusion, I suggest waiting 3 days to see if anyone resurrects the thread.
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1835 on: July 01, 2012, 05:11:42 AM »



Quote
But if it were not for the 16 other saviours with the same MO this might hold water.

Most of these copy cat saviors is parroted nonsense.   

Offline Emily

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1836 on: July 01, 2012, 05:20:18 AM »
Welcome to the site.




Quote
But if it were not for the 16 other saviours with the same MO this might hold water.

Most of these copy cat saviors is parroted nonsense.

Much like Jesus being a copy cat saviour of Horus and others? Since Jesus is a copy-cat of god-men before him what makes his life any more special?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 05:23:44 AM by Emily »
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1837 on: July 01, 2012, 05:37:40 AM »
Welcome to the site.




Quote
But if it were not for the 16 other saviours with the same MO this might hold water.

Most of these copy cat saviors is parroted nonsense.

Much like Jesus being a copy cat saviour of Horus and others? Since Jesus is a copy-cat of god-men before him what makes his life any more special?


How is  Jesus a copy-cat of Horus?


Offline Emily

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1838 on: July 01, 2012, 05:40:41 AM »
How is  Jesus a copy-cat of Horus?

Just a copy-pasta:

Quote
Born of a virgin, Isis. Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star. Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” An angel tells Jesus’ father to: “Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.

Other pre-jesus-like-god-men here: http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1839 on: July 01, 2012, 05:50:36 AM »
Most of that isn't true, Emily. Don't copy and paste from those websites that only exist to compare Horus to Jesus, they lie a lot or stretch the truth. Research Horus directly on websites with no anti-Jesus bent. There are similarities, and I do believe some of Jesus' story is stolen from it, but it's not nearly as similar as you've been lead to believe.

Isis was not a virgin, for example. She used the severed penis of her dead Husband to impregnate herself, and she was not a virgin even before that as she'd been married for many years before her husband's death.
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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1840 on: July 01, 2012, 06:04:49 AM »
Why are you focusing on Horus? Emily posted a link with ten different dudes. Even if Horus isn't one of them, that still leaves nine. And considering that there are probably thousands of religions, most of which pre-date christianity... Well, you get the point.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1841 on: July 01, 2012, 06:07:29 AM »
How is  Jesus a copy-cat of Horus?

Just a copy-pasta:

Quote
Born of a virgin, Isis. Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star. Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” An angel tells Jesus’ father to: “Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.

Other pre-jesus-like-god-men here: http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/


Horus was not born of a virgin.   A Egyptian relief shows  Isis in falcon form, over an erect phallus of a dead Osiris in the Underworld


In Encyclopedia of Religions  by miller.

Quote
"But after she [i.e., Isis] had brought it [i.e. Osiris' body] back to Egypt, Seth managed to get hold of Osiris's body again and cut it up into fourteen parts, which she scattered all over Egypt. Then Isis went out to search for Osiris a second time and buried each part where she found it (hence the many tombs of Osiris that exist in Egypt). The only part that she did not find was the god's penis, for Seth had thrown it into the river, where it had been eaten by a fish; Isis therefore fashioned a substitute penis to put in its place. She had also had sexual intercourse with Osisis after his death, which resulted in the conception and birth of his posthumous son, Harpocrates, Horus-the-child. Osiris became king of the netherworld, and Horus proceeded to fight with Seth..." [CANE:2:1702; emphasis mine] [BTW, the Hebrew word 'satan' is not a 'cognate' of the name 'seth' by any means: "The root *STN is not evidenced in any of the cognate languages in texts that are prior to or contemporary with its occurrences in the Hebrew Bible" DDD, s.v. 1369f]

Not a virgin.


Birthday is irrelevant.  Jesus wasn't even born in December


He did not walked on water. No such passage exists.


Break in life history is irrelevant as well. A lot of historical figures have had a similar fate.

He did not get baptized.

Use a reliable source that cites its claims. That certainly isn't one of them. Its simply parroted nonsense that he didn't bother to research.





Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1842 on: July 01, 2012, 06:10:17 AM »
Why are you focusing on Horus? Emily posted a link with ten different dudes. Even if Horus isn't one of them, that still leaves nine. And considering that there are probably thousands of religions, most of which pre-date christianity... Well, you get the point.


Cause the  9 others are  just as dishonest.  Or is it easier to parrot non-cited nonsense instead of actual research?

Offline Emily

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1843 on: July 01, 2012, 06:10:24 AM »
Most of that isn't true, Emily. Don't copy and paste from those websites that only exist to compare Horus to Jesus, they lie a lot or stretch the truth. Research Horus directly on websites with no anti-Jesus bent. There are similarities, and I do believe some of Jesus' story is stolen from it, but it's not nearly as similar as you've been lead to believe.

Isis was not a virgin, for example. She used the severed penis of her dead Husband to impregnate herself, and she was not a virgin even before that as she'd been married for many years before her husband's death.

Can you post some links for me to research then to research Horus directly?

I was only using Horus because it was the first thing to come to my mind. Some believe that Krisna was also born of a virgin, according to the Bhagavata-purana. However, not reading that book and only relying on what I find on the internet, perhaps I am wrong about him being born in a similar manner that Jesus was. But if a religious text does describe the birth of a god-man similar to jesus, before jesus, then it's possible that jesus is a copy-cat.

And even if she had been married 'for years', how long was Joseph married to Mary.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 06:12:07 AM by Emily »
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1844 on: July 01, 2012, 06:13:52 AM »
Most of that isn't true, Emily. Don't copy and paste from those websites that only exist to compare Horus to Jesus, they lie a lot or stretch the truth. Research Horus directly on websites with no anti-Jesus bent. There are similarities, and I do believe some of Jesus' story is stolen from it, but it's not nearly as similar as you've been lead to believe.

Isis was not a virgin, for example. She used the severed penis of her dead Husband to impregnate herself, and she was not a virgin even before that as she'd been married for many years before her husband's death.

Can you post some links for me to research then to research Horus directly?

I was only using Horus because it was the first thing to come to my mind. Some believe that Krisna was also born of a virgin, according to the Bhagavata-purana. However, not reading that book and only relying on what I find on the internet, perhaps I am wrong about him being born in a similar manner that Jesus was. But if a religious text does describe the birth of a god-man similar to jesus, before jesus, then it's possible that jesus is a copy-cat.

And even if she had been married 'for years', how long was Joseph married to Mary.


Emily, here's a great site that covers all the copy-cats. That cites real sources and not unfounded claims,


http://www.tektonics.org/copycathub.html

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1845 on: July 01, 2012, 06:21:30 AM »
Emily, here's a great site that covers all the copy-cats.

Do you know what "copycat" means? A copycat comes AFTER the original. Those religions pre-date (meaning they came BEFORE) christianity.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1846 on: July 01, 2012, 06:29:34 AM »
Emily, here's a great site that covers all the copy-cats.

Do you know what "copycat" means? A copycat comes AFTER the original. Those religions pre-date (meaning they came BEFORE) christianity.

I'm referring to copy cat theories. But of course  go off on a tangent.

So before you start crying  more

Quote
"Emily, here's a great site that covers all the copy cat theories"


But I guess this is easier to respond to then the fact you accept parroted nonsense about copy cat saviors than doing actual research.  &)


Online One Above All

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1847 on: July 01, 2012, 06:36:41 AM »
I'm referring to copy cat theories.

Next time you might want to write what you mean.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1848 on: July 01, 2012, 06:43:22 AM »
I'm referring to copy cat theories.

Next time you might want to write what you mean.

It was pretty obvious in what was being discussed in the last 6-7 posts.   

Offline Emily

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1849 on: July 01, 2012, 06:51:56 AM »

http://www.tektonics.org/copycathub.html


Regarding that site, I find it might be biased, since it's banner is:



'Education and Aplogetic Ministry" Perhaps that site is just a reliable as Got Questions
I'm sleepy and going to bed, but when I wake up I will check into the citations listed on the site you provided.
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Offline HAL

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1850 on: July 01, 2012, 06:58:17 AM »
SwayzesGhost,

You "resurrected" a thread that died over two years ago, which is considered necromancy and bad form. I was Admin at the time and the conclusion from the debate was that - no  - a man named Jesus did not rise from the dead.

If you have information that would convince us please bring it. After 64 pages of debate, I doubt you'll be able to add any convincing evidence but I'm all ears.

Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1851 on: July 01, 2012, 07:04:42 AM »
SwayzesGhost,

You "resurrected" a thread that died over two years ago, which is considered necromancy and bad form. I was Admin at the time and the conclusion from the debate was that - no  - a man named Jesus did not rise from the dead.

If you have information that would convince us please bring it. After 64 pages of debate, I doubt you'll be able to add any convincing evidence but I'm all ears.


Well even if for a fact a man name Jesus came back from the dead you couldn't prove it.  So its kind of pointless to argue.

Also its bad form to have a 2 year inactive thread pinned ;)

Offline HAL

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1852 on: July 01, 2012, 07:10:17 AM »
Well even if for a fact a man name Jesus came back from the dead you couldn't prove it.  So its kind of pointless to argue.

OK, good, you admit it can't be proven. That was easy.

Quote
Also its bad form to have a 2 year inactive thread pinned ;)

Not if you want people to read the information Einstein.

Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1853 on: July 01, 2012, 07:16:22 AM »

Quote
Not if you want people to read the information Einstein.


Then its reasonable and not bad form to assume people will respond in it.

Offline HAL

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1854 on: July 01, 2012, 07:18:15 AM »
Then its reasonable and not bad form to assume people will respond in it.

Nevertheless, you admitted it can't be proven that Jesus rose from the dead, which is a nice addition nonetheless.

Thanks for that.

Well even if for a fact a man name Jesus came back from the dead you couldn't prove it.  So its kind of pointless to argue.

Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1855 on: July 01, 2012, 07:23:13 AM »
Then its reasonable and not bad form to assume people will respond in it.

Nevertheless, you admitted it can't be proven that Jesus rose from the dead, which is a nice addition nonetheless.

Thanks for that.

Well even if for a fact a man name Jesus came back from the dead you couldn't prove it.  So its kind of pointless to argue.


Whats your point? I didn't make the claim. So you have no victory over me.  &)