Author Topic: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?  (Read 81071 times)

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Offline Operator_A25

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1798 on: February 20, 2010, 09:21:08 PM »
Even over Majesty???  Come on, you've got to be joking.
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Offline HAL

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1799 on: February 20, 2010, 09:29:01 PM »
...and Fran can spell. 

Yea, well, most of the time...

Quote
... and preconcieved notions about reality.

Anyway - Fran,

Do you see anybody in the debate rooms wanting to debate the existence of gravity? No?

How about electricity or magnetism? Still no?

Anyone debating that the Egyptians didn't build the the pyramids, or whether the Spanish didn't invade South America and cause the existing civilizations there to crumble? No? Nobody huh? Hmmm.

Why do you think there are no people wanting to debate and stake a claim that those things aren't really true? You can answer that question yourself too.

Now, why do you think there is a raging debate that seems to never end regarding the conclusion of your four minimal facts?

Ignoring your assertion that you are not smart, you should also be able to answer that question yourself by now (Hint: it has nothing to do with anyone's ability to accept a new incredible reality)

Offline kcrady

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1800 on: February 20, 2010, 09:43:00 PM »
Even over Majesty???  Come on, you've got to be joking.

Is he still around?  In my debate with him, he was yet another iCraig Debate Simulator,tm but with an ego of such titanic size that it has its own gravity well.  He couldn't really respond to anything outside of Craig's box any better than Fran could, but he did it with a lot less class.  His Babel-class towering asshattery and Arrogant Ignorance[1] tend to remove him from the ranks of "intelligent, educated" Christians in my mind. 
 1. The signature of the brain-dead Christian troll.
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline ReasonIsOutToLunch

Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1801 on: February 20, 2010, 10:02:07 PM »
Moving the main thread is an excellent idea. I never liked the idea of locking that thread. I think it is a great example of xian "logic."  It also shows that some xians can indeed spell. Fran is respectful for the most part. I would also like to see Fran actually debate without running to WLC for every single point he would like to make. If nothing else Fran shows that faith is a great idea, but impossible to execute.
God, doesn't know pi.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1802 on: February 21, 2010, 02:15:06 AM »
I've thought long and hard about this.

I will not be continuing to debate Fran - on any subject.

Over the past few weeks (months?) I've spent a lot of time on these threads.  With full time union rep job, chair of school governors, and father of 2, I have a very limited amount of time I can spend here - by focussing on Fran I've had to refrain from joining in other threads that interest me.

Fran has repeatedly called my honesty into question.
Fran demanded many times I answer 3 extra questions before continuing.....then abandoned that thread.
Fran ignored a direct question from me for several weeks.
Fran is still attempting to slide facts into my argument, and will not answer with a straight yes or no a direct question.

All these problems stem from one source, I think - that Fran has admitted that he posts nothing from himself, relying on copying arguments from others.

I therefore see no point in wasting any more time "debating" someone who can and will ONLY respond by parrotting someone else's words.  Again, as I said, there is no debate there - all I am doing is arguing with a book, not a human.  Any original points I make will remain unanswered - any UNoriginal points that aren't phrased "just so", will not be coherently answered if there is not a direct cut-and-paste that fits them.

There IS no debate.  Frankly, there isn't even a discussion worthy of anywhere more than the Chatter area.

I will not be engaging with Fran any further, on any subject.  Please archive the 3 questions thread.  I would also prefer than the 49-pager also be archived, though as many others have interest in it, it is perhaps not solely my decision to make.  Either way, this will be my last contribution on the subject.

Thanks all,

Anf.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Inactive_1

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1803 on: February 21, 2010, 08:48:41 AM »
Notice to all WWHGHA members:

At at point in time last year, we created a special debate room for this and other types of one-on-one debates. The purpose of which was to have members. well. debate each other on topics. The purpose of a debate is to probe a persons own thoughts and ideas on a subject, which at times can be supported by citations of importance from outside resources. The purpose of a debate is NOT to ask a person questions, then for that person to go and retrieve others ideas and report them - even if you say you are doing that. Whatever you call it - it's not a debate for our debate rooms. This is what Fran has been doing, which he has openly admittedly, but nevertheless, it's not a debate for our debate area.

Therefore, it's being shipped back the the GRD board, and it is now freely open to all members for your input and comments (there is no longer a commentary thread.) Any and all members can go back to posting whatever thoughts you have just as in any other thread, within the limits of or rules and guidelines, of course. A good challenge would be for any member to see what Fran's own individual ideas are on this topic; unfortunately, none of the debaters have yet to accomplish this.

Addendum - Shown below is Anfauglir's reason for this request.

Thanks.

I've thought long and hard about this.

I will not be continuing to debate Fran - on any subject.

Over the past few weeks (months?) I've spent a lot of time on these threads.  With full time union rep job, chair of school governors, and father of 2, I have a very limited amount of time I can spend here - by focussing on Fran I've had to refrain from joining in other threads that interest me.

Fran has repeatedly called my honesty into question.
Fran demanded many times I answer 3 extra questions before continuing.....then abandoned that thread.
Fran ignored a direct question from me for several weeks.
Fran is still attempting to slide facts into my argument, and will not answer with a straight yes or no a direct question.

All these problems stem from one source, I think - that Fran has admitted that he posts nothing from himself, relying on copying arguments from others.

I therefore see no point in wasting any more time "debating" someone who can and will ONLY respond by parrotting someone else's words.  Again, as I said, there is no debate there - all I am doing is arguing with a book, not a human.  Any original points I make will remain unanswered - any UNoriginal points that aren't phrased "just so", will not be coherently answered if there is not a direct cut-and-paste that fits them.

There IS no debate.  Frankly, there isn't even a discussion worthy of anywhere more than the Chatter area.

I will not be engaging with Fran any further, on any subject.  Please archive the 3 questions thread.  I would also prefer than the 49-pager also be archived, though as many others have interest in it, it is perhaps not solely my decision to make.  Either way, this will be my last contribution on the subject.

Thanks all,

Anf.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 08:53:53 AM by Admin 1 »

Offline Inactive_1

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1804 on: February 21, 2010, 08:50:07 AM »
Commentary is now open in the main thread, which has been moved to GRD. Also, the comments from the old commentary thread are now merged with this topic.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 09:28:40 AM by Admin 1 »

Offline Gimpy

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1805 on: February 21, 2010, 09:11:06 AM »
Great.

In case I haven't done so already, I will answer the thread title question:

No.

Not all those who wander are lost; some are buried in my backyard. . .

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1806 on: February 21, 2010, 10:49:38 AM »
 ;D
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 08:08:34 AM by monkeymind »
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline ReasonIsOutToLunch

Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1807 on: February 22, 2010, 06:01:09 PM »
Great.

In case I haven't done so already, I will answer the thread title question:

No.



Well, no one has come back from being dead. It is even harder when you never existed in the first place!
God, doesn't know pi.

Offline HAL

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1808 on: February 22, 2010, 06:32:18 PM »
Here's the very first post in this thread from May, 2009 -

I think it can be demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that the Resurrection of Christ actually occured in history.  And I think William Lane Craig shows this to be true in his numerous debates with highly intelligent atheists and non-believers.

And do you want my very considered opinion of it at his time, after 10 months of this?




Offline subtleinspiration

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1809 on: February 22, 2010, 07:00:56 PM »
Best. Fail. Picture. Ever.  :D
"As a God fearing Christian,  you should never ever date an Atheist. One night alone with an atheist is enough for you to lose your faith and to be converted into one of the spiritually dead."

Offline MadBunny

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1810 on: February 22, 2010, 08:06:26 PM »
Best. Fail. Picture. Ever.  :D

Lol, don't get me started!
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline ReasonIsOutToLunch

Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1811 on: February 22, 2010, 08:12:33 PM »
^^^Just out of curiosity how would one do that?
God, doesn't know pi.

Offline MadBunny

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1812 on: February 23, 2010, 02:46:26 AM »
^^^Just out of curiosity how would one do that?

Pretty easy actually. 


I have a substantial library of images on hand for this forum.  I just didn't want to start shoving this derailed train wreck off a cliff, metaphorically speaking, any more than it already is.

Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Online One Above All

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1813 on: February 23, 2010, 02:48:07 AM »
MB, you win 1000 interwebz for that picture ;D
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Offline kcrady

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1814 on: February 23, 2010, 02:56:52 AM »
MadBunny's got a mean Photobucket. 
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

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Offline Inactive_1

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1815 on: February 23, 2010, 09:05:28 AM »
I just didn't want to start shoving this derailed train wreck off a cliff, metaphorically speaking, any more than it already is.

I appreciate your concern, but I think it's too far gone to save at this time.

Does anyone want me to email WLC and invite him here? I found several email addresses I could try -


Media: presskit@reasonablefaith.org

Donations: donate@reasonablefaith.org

Speaking Engagements: speakingengagements@reasonablefaith.org

Testimonials: testimonials@reasonablefaith.org

RF Chapters: chapters@reasonablefaith.org

Problem with the Website: webmaster@reasonablefaith.org


Reasonable Faith Website

Offline kcrady

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1816 on: February 23, 2010, 10:16:48 AM »
Go for it!  I could debate him instead of a simulacrum!
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

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Offline HAL

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1817 on: February 23, 2010, 10:38:11 AM »
I wonder which email address to use? Maybe Speaking Engagements?

Here Admin I'll compose the email -

Dear William,

Allow me to introduce myself. I am the Administrator of the WWGHA (Why Won't God Heal Amputees) Forum located on the interwebs. An emissary of your camp, one Mr. Fran, who was debating us for the past 10 months, admitted he couldn't make any arguments on his own regarding the four minimal facts argument, and didn't have any original ideas regarding same, and was soundly defeated at every turn. We now request that you come to our forum and debate us in person, without Mr. Fran as the intermediary. If you agree, I will make you a pre-registered account and you will be all set to go.

Regards,

Administrator

P.S. We suggest sending Mr. Fran back to FMF training camp ASAP, before setting him loose on the world again.

Offline Inactive_1

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1818 on: February 23, 2010, 03:38:15 PM »
Go for it!  I could debate him instead of a simulacrum!

OK, I'll send an email to one or more of the addresses and see what comes back.

Offline Inactive_1

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1819 on: February 23, 2010, 05:59:04 PM »
Here is the email invitation I sent to the WLC webmaster and speaking engagements addresses this afternoon. I will post any responses I receive here.

Hello,

I am one of the Administrators (Admin1) at the Why Won't God Heal Amputees online forum (WWGHA), a forum composed of critical thinkers, located here -

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php

There has been a debate going on since May 2009 regarding the so-called Four Minimal Facts (FMF) pertaining to the resurrection of a man named Jesus. Here is the debate thread -

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=6776.0

So far, no conclusion has been reached, and the main person standing up for the FMF approach is a member named Fran. He has been challenged by many members and is normally overwhelmed with responses, and also claims that he must continually go to your materials for his responses to our member's challenges and ideas. I think you may know him, but probably by his real name (which I do not know). I'm afraid he hasn't convinced any of the members that a certain man named Jesus was actually resurrected.

What I am looking for is for you or one of your associates who knows the FMF material well to join our forum and continue the debate with our members. We can set up the debate again in a special Debate Room so the debate is moderated well and so as to keep out any comments unrelated to the debate on this subject.

If you or one of your associates or friends is interested in debating this topic with some of our best critical thinkers in our forum, forward this invitation to them, and please let me know.

Regards,

Admin1

« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 06:02:25 PM by Admin 1 »

Offline ReasonIsOutToLunch

Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1820 on: February 24, 2010, 01:09:05 AM »
Can we take bets on WLC wussing out?
God, doesn't know pi.

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1821 on: February 24, 2010, 06:32:24 AM »
bets - he won't come near the place!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Online Azdgari

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1822 on: February 24, 2010, 08:23:54 AM »
What, a debate in text, rather than in person?  :o

But, but...the fallacies will be recorded for examination mid-debate!
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline voodoo child

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1823 on: February 24, 2010, 08:52:45 AM »
About bloody time, I keep hearing about this WLC charactor. watched a few of his videos, he seems to be an excellent public speaker. of course, some people that are, usually sell bull shit. 
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline none

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1824 on: February 25, 2010, 10:24:27 AM »
nice cordial letter you sent Admin1, I wonder if they have the time/courage to respond.

Offline Petey

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1825 on: February 25, 2010, 03:56:11 PM »
No chance in hell WLC shows up.  He's very good at steamrolling people in person, but in a textual, non-timed environment, his arguments fail miserably.
He never pays attention, he always knows the answer, and he can never tell you how he knows. We can't keep thrashing him. He is a bad example to the other pupils. There's no educating a smart boy.
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Offline Inactive_1

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Re: Did a man named Jesus rise from the dead?
« Reply #1826 on: February 25, 2010, 05:49:22 PM »
I've not received any response yet. Probably won't either. No problem, we stepped up and challenged, he didn't respond.