Latex is a natural substance. In fact, so is estrogen. Please don't try to twist your definition of "natural" to suit your prejudices
How shocking! Here we go again with the argument that I am arguing natural law means only that which is “natural” Please look up what is meant by Natural Law. It does not mean only what one may find naturally occurring in nature. Natural Law has to do with design and purpose and order.
What they are doing is making conception less likely. Artificial birth control also makes conception less likely. Obviously, reducing the chances of conception is not immoral, in and of itself. The question is, at what rate does it become immoral. If NFP results in conception 10% of the time and artificial birth control results in conception .1%, at what percentage point did it become immoral? What if every pack of condoms came with one that had a hole in it and condoms were only successful at preventing pregnancy 90% of the time?
I find it fascinating that so many criticize the Church for being legalistic. It’s as if you expect the Church to fit your false stereotype about them. Nothing would please you more than if the Church came out and gave some kind of specific percentage of what constitutes immorality. The fact is the Church does not do this, because the Church does not see her like you see her – as some kind of moral police out to bust everyone.
When it comes to determine whether a person is acting in a moral or immoral manner especially regarding something like NFP, he/she would need to talk to a spiritual directory, or priest, or ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. This could help clear up any doubts he/she may have. A neutral third party is often better to shed some light on a situation to help you better see the truth of the situation.
What would a serious reason be? I can guess finances, and so on.
Finances, mental instability of one of the spouses, life of the mother at risk, extreme healthy concern, etc.
At what point would a couple practicing NFP be abusing it? How would one abuse it?
Perhaps a person’s husband just lost his job and they already have two small children and are feeling overwhelmed, commons sense may tell us that there would be nothing immoral about such a couple who began practicing NFP. However, as soon as the wife started feeling like she had a better handle on her situation or as soon as the husband found a job again, the wise couple would come to realize it’s more freeing to simply be open to whatever life brings their way, then to feel some need to control everything. God wants us to be happy. He realizes we are human and can find life difficult at times, but a couple that loves God enough to make the sacrifice to practice NFP in their difficult trial instead of resorting to the immoral practice of artificial contraception, is a couple that will soon realize God will give them the necessary grace to deal with their situation. Perhaps practicing NFP for a short period would improve the couple’s marriage. The couple would truly find out what they mean to each other. They would need to communicate more and become more intimate. They would discover each others genuine concern for one another.
What is it about the sacrifice that makes a difference?
Sacrifice is proof of love. Sacrifice shows the spouses are not selfishly using each other. The husband isn’t saying, “I love you completely and I give myself entirely to you – except my fertility.” If the spouses are holding something back then it isn’t really love. It isn’t self-donation and total giving. It becomes selfish. You can shout you love your spouse till your blue in the face, but only your actions would prove it. Want to give all that you have and all that you are to your spouse? Then do it. Don’t make exceptions. Don’t make excuses. Why put limits on your love?
Could it be the Pope is protecting a fortune?
Hee, hee – don’t you have that backwards? Do you have any idea how many “catholics” would probably love it if the Pope changed the Church’s teachings on artificial contraception? Why perhaps even more people would convert to the Catholic Church if she were to do so. The Church’s numbers would increase and naturally so would their donations. Why if the Church declared artificial contraception moral, there would be a great many of “Catholics” and non-catholics alike who would be very happy to hear that. But the truth is the Church is not interested in increasing its numbers at the expense of truth. The Church is not a democracy. We did not vote Jesus Christ as our King. He is our king by right of His divinity. The Church does not determine truth by popular majority. And this I am afraid is what bothers you the most.
When it comes to your views about sex and contraception, it just smells like SPAG to me. You use vague terms like "abuse" and "be open to" and "sacrifice." Only you know what you mean be that. Only you know when you think someone has had too much NFP or not enough abstinence. You should see if the Vatican can make you the sex police and then all catholics can be subjected to your whims and instincts.
It has nothing to do with ME. That’s why sometimes you guys want a specific answer/amount/percentage and I am unable to give you one. I use words like “open” and “reasonable” and “sacrifice” because it is ultimately up to the individual and God to know what their intentions are. The Church is not as narrow and rigid as you want to make her out to be. She sets the guidelines. Her job is to help people know/recognize what is right and good and true. The Church presents the commandments – the laws (which are wonderful guidelines), but ultimately expects/hopes its members rise above the law.
Are you married? Do you need a commandment to tell you not to cheat on your spouse? Adultery is immoral, but many of us have risen above the law and don’t simply remain faithful because it is a law.
When it comes to birth control, the teaching is artificial contraception is immoral. The Church hopes that spouses will rise above the law. I don’t practice contraception in my marriage, because my Church says not to, but because of the love I have for my spouse. Because I realize that only when we follow what is right and good and true are we really free. I have no desire to place the limitations on myself that contraception would. It would be beneath my dignity of human being to do so.
You think contraception is immoral and you have stated your reasons, we don't have to agree, but you have made your position clear. Your stance on NFP, however, is full of holes and on a very shaky foundation. .
What holes? That it can be abused? Uhhh, alcohol can be abused, shall we then declare it immoral? Sex can be abused, should we consider sex bad?
If you want to talk about shaky foundations, perhaps you should take a look at marriages that contracept. Now that’s a shaky foundation!
It reveals your desperation to follow what the church has taught you and not acknowledge any problems in the doctrine.
What do I have to be desperate about? Perhaps, you need to find holes in my church’s teachings because you desperately need to feel good about your behavior?
And what problems are there in my Church’s doctrine? I see no problems.
How do you handle it when the church changes it's position on issues? Do you just change yours too? I wonder if the church will change it's position on birth control some day and how you would react.
Hee, hee. I’m not too worried. I am quite confident in the wisdom of the Church.
How will you react when the truth regarding these issues becomes more apparent?
Thanks for the dialogue, but you have a misunderstanding of the Church, of NFP, of marriage, and of freedom.