Author Topic: Evolution Explained  (Read 30918 times)

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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #319 on: February 14, 2012, 09:56:30 AM »
You really think that I am that ignorant of science? I was purposely shortening my responses in order to keep your attention. Had i wrote more would you have changed your opinion? I kept it short to save time
Yes, I do.  Because up until now, you've either given unsubstantiated assertions or ridiculously simplified statements regarding your knowledge of science, and furthermore, you've been dismissive and contemptuous of scientific methodology when it comes to evolutionary theory, even though exactly that process was used in formulating every single other scientific theory we have.  You can't cherry-pick and say that science is accurate except for this one theory that you personally disagree with, and claim that it's "not proved" and "only a hypothesis" when you yourself admit that key parts of that theory have been proven, and when you have not been able to falsify other key parts of that theory except with logic that has holes big enough to drive a truck through.

Quote from: rhocam
A vaccine is a biological preparation that improves immunity to a particular disease. A vaccine typically contains an agent that resembles a discussing microorganism, and is often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins or one of its surface proteins. The agent stimulates the body's immune system to recognize the agent as foreign, destroy it, and "remember" it, so that the immune system can more easily recognize and destroy any of these microorganisms that it later encounters.
http://en.wiped.org/wikipedia/Vaccine

I got this off of wikipedia, How does it say anything different then what I said? It just took longer.
Congratulations, you've proved that you can quote Wikipedia.  At that, you're in at least the top 10% of all creationist posters on this website.  But the fact is, quoting Wikipedia is nothing special.  It takes minimal work and effort to look up an entry there, and these entries generally only brush the surface.  There's a reason essays generally do not allow Wikipedia to be used as a primary source, not the least of which is the "Holiday Inn Express" syndrome - a person looks something up on Wikipedia and assumes that they're now qualified in the subject.

Quote from: rhocam
In reference to your refutation of my knowledge in biology. I understand that fruit flies make fruit flies. People make people. I am not the one boldly claiming that an amoeba, given enough time could make a human. Which one makes more sense?
So, would you say that the Sun orbits the Earth, then, and that scientists are wrong in saying that it's actually the Earth's rotation that causes the Sun to seemingly move?  It's the same idea of using what seems obvious to refute an argument that you don't really understand at all.  When you get to the crux of things, it's clearly evident that you're making an argument from incredulity here, rather than taking the time to actually try to understand what evolutionary theory really says.

Quote from: rhocam
Addressing my stance regarding the sameness of man. How many changes would have been necessary to complete the transition from said amoeba to man? I guess there are several trillion cells in a man, and one in an amoeba, so to be generous, lets say that there were a billion. That is one every fifteen years. So in my lifetime I should have seen two evolutionary changes. in two thousand years there should be a few more. Or did all the changes conveniently stop when we became sentient?
I have to ask, do you take pride in showing off your ignorance?  You honestly think evolution on Earth has been going on for 15 billion years?  Wrong.  First off, the universe is currently considered to be 13.7 billion years old.  Earth itself has only existed for five billion or so.  Life on Earth has probably been around for at least half that time.

So what do you think evolutionary change is?  You think it's something obvious, like suddenly growing a tail?  Wrong.  It's generally very subtle (mutation of genes is the most common kind of evolution), though there are times when you have an explosion of variation (such as after the Cambrian extinction event, or after the dinosaurs were wiped out at the end of the Cretaceous period); organisms generally only change rapidly when there's either plenty of room to expand or practically no room at all..  Furthermore, when you do get an evolutionary change that makes a noticeable difference in survivability, it doesn't take all that long for it to either spread through the population or die out.  Otherwise you get all these little tiny changes that are practically unnoticeable, but add up over time.

Quote from: rhocam
And finally, for now, yes I am suggesting that when the evidence doesn't fit the hypothesis of evolution, the evidence gets discarded.
This argument is the single most pathetic and contemptible one you've made in any of your posts.  You are basically accusing scientists of lying, explicitly and implicitly, about evolutionary theory.  Not just biologists, but astronomers, geologists, and paleontologists as well, at the very least.  And you are doing so not with proof that can be substantiated, but by using "logic" born of your own ignorance on the subject.  And in so doing, you tell the same lie that you accuse these others of

Inertia looses its velocity through friction, does not explain sub atomic particles.
You are displaying your ignorance yet again.  Inertia is the expression of an object's tendency to continue moving, or not moving, unless acted upon by some other force.  Friction is a force that can cause an object's inertia to change by acting as a drag against its velocity, but if you had a perfectly frictionless surface, the object would keep moving at its same speed indefinitely.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 10:14:10 AM by jaimehlers »

Offline velkyn

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #320 on: February 14, 2012, 10:01:17 AM »
I don't claim to have superior knowledge. I claim to have no faith in evolution. I am also trying to demonstrate why.
Well, I'm sure you don't have superior knowledge because despite your lies that you love biology, etc, you are amazingly ignorant of its basics.  It's a shame that Christians always have to lie on these forums trying to establish a claim of knowledge when their actions simply destroy that specious claim. 
Quote
I have evidence of why I do not believe. I am content with this evidence. Unfortunately you will not accept my evidence. I have tried already.
Ah, there we go, the claim that the Christian doesn't have to look any further than their own desires.  Always good to know that you are "content" in that you've decided to go no further than your own ignorance.  You have presented no evidence.  All I see is a willful ignorance and the usual creationist errors that sadly, none of you are educated enough to catch, despite all of  your claims of interest in the subjects.  You all get tripped up in using mined quotes, attackign superseded information, misrepresented research, etc.  None of you seem to be able to accept that your fellow Christians lie to you. 
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the fossil record. Your Champion. A clear line from our time to the beginning of time. yet where is the continuous record of transition between species? Long eras of stability then huge changes the next layer.
Thanks for even more evidence that you are a liar when you claim to have any actual knowledge about that which you attempt to attack.  I do enjoy catching Christians in their lies and attempts to misrepresent facts. 
Quote
at the very beginning of his treatise vertebrate Paleontology and Evolution, Robert Carrol observes " most of the fossil record does not support a strictly gradual account" of evolution. Yet Darwins theory requires it. It is the heart and soul of the theory.
It’s Carroll, not Carrol.  And even more evidence of a Christian being unable to actually write and do his own research and with a cherry on top of being too ignorant to realize that Darwin’s original theory has been added onto and improved. It’d be so nice if Christians actually kept up with that they think is so wrong and actually know what it says not, and not 200 years ago.  Now, I’m guessing that Rhocam will try to say that science is wrong since it changes and modifies it’s theories, but sadly for him, science always does that and he hypocritically benefits from that feature of the scientific method.  Two hundred years ago we also didn’t understand how many diseases worked but surprise! now we do. 
Quote
Like I stated earlier. You have taken evidence from adaptation, specialization, and genetic drift. Misappropriated it and applied it to the theory of evolution without evidence -transitional forms.
Plenty of evidence of transitional forms:  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html  Now quick, Rhocam, hide your eyes and continue lying.  I’m sure your god won’t mind.  He likes liars right? 
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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #321 on: February 14, 2012, 10:04:59 AM »
Now quick, Rhocam, hide your eyes and continue lying.  I’m sure your god won’t mind.  He likes liars right? 

He loves liars. After all, he was the first liar. You remember that whole A&E thing ("on the day you touch this you'll die"), right?
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #322 on: February 14, 2012, 11:23:36 AM »
Here is someone I could have a discussion with.

Any yet you didn't actually answer my questions.

The similarity between us and the large primates has been highly touted as a champion of evolution.

I'm not a biologist.  I'm an engineer.  So please understand, my knowledge in this area is far from perfect.  Also understand that my ignorance on the topic does not refute ToE.

I do not think it is the similarity itself that is important so much as the way in which it is similar.  We have one less chromosomal pair than the other apes.  And the ToE predicts how we would have evolved from a common ancestor.  Exactly where it predicts chromosomes would fuse, we find that they have.
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/hum_ape_chrom.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2_(human)

If they are so similar why aren't we using ape parts for organ donations.

Because we are not close enough genetically or physiologically. 

Gene theory is based in the belief that genes and cell behave in a predictable way.

They behave in ways that follow natural laws.  Which means, whether we have the ability to accurately predict right now or not, they do behave in predictable ways.  Otherwise genes would behave randomly and thus not matter at all.

The way humans were in the Time of Jesus is the way they are now. We have not changed.

Really? 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7132794.stm


Since I graduated high school the universe has aged 10 billion years, why, has the evidence changed? no only our interpetation of it. The Theory of evolution needed more time, so it got it.

Nope.  We got more/ better data through better technology.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe#History
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Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #323 on: February 14, 2012, 12:24:26 PM »
I don't claim to have superior knowledge. I claim to have no faith in evolution. I am also trying to demonstrate why.
Well, I'm sure you don't have superior knowledge because despite your lies that you love biology, etc, you are amazingly ignorant of its basics.  It's a shame that Christians always have to lie on these forums trying to establish a claim of knowledge when their actions simply destroy that specious claim. 
Quote
I have evidence of why I do not believe. I am content with this evidence. Unfortunately you will not accept my evidence. I have tried already.
Ah, there we go, the claim that the Christian doesn't have to look any further than their own desires.  Always good to know that you are "content" in that you've decided to go no further than your own ignorance.  You have presented no evidence.  All I see is a willful ignorance and the usual creationist errors that sadly, none of you are educated enough to catch, despite all of  your claims of interest in the subjects.  You all get tripped up in using mined quotes, attackign superseded information, misrepresented research, etc.  None of you seem to be able to accept that your fellow Christians lie to you. 
Quote
the fossil record. Your Champion. A clear line from our time to the beginning of time. yet where is the continuous record of transition between species? Long eras of stability then huge changes the next layer.
Thanks for even more evidence that you are a liar when you claim to have any actual knowledge about that which you attempt to attack.  I do enjoy catching Christians in their lies and attempts to misrepresent facts. 
Quote
at the very beginning of his treatise vertebrate Paleontology and Evolution, Robert Carrol observes " most of the fossil record does not support a strictly gradual account" of evolution. Yet Darwins theory requires it. It is the heart and soul of the theory.
It’s Carroll, not Carrol.  And even more evidence of a Christian being unable to actually write and do his own research and with a cherry on top of being too ignorant to realize that Darwin’s original theory has been added onto and improved. It’d be so nice if Christians actually kept up with that they think is so wrong and actually know what it says not, and not 200 years ago.  Now, I’m guessing that Rhocam will try to say that science is wrong since it changes and modifies it’s theories, but sadly for him, science always does that and he hypocritically benefits from that feature of the scientific method.  Two hundred years ago we also didn’t understand how many diseases worked but surprise! now we do. 
Quote
Like I stated earlier. You have taken evidence from adaptation, specialization, and genetic drift. Misappropriated it and applied it to the theory of evolution without evidence -transitional forms.
Plenty of evidence of transitional forms:  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html  Now quick, Rhocam, hide your eyes and continue lying.  I’m sure your god won’t mind.  He likes liars right?

You completely ignore my arguement and persoally attack me. Yet you have no transitional forms. You ARE speculating, You do change the facts to fit the theories. Who am I and why would your attacks on my lack of science bother me when I can see the flaws in your own belief and you cannot.

Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #324 on: February 14, 2012, 12:27:46 PM »
Now quick, Rhocam, hide your eyes and continue lying.  I’m sure your god won’t mind.  He likes liars right? 

He loves liars. After all, he was the first liar. You remember that whole A&E thing ("on the day you touch this you'll die"), right?

They died a spiritual death, duh, basic theology. You are quoting the very thing your nameskae claimed. "you will not surely die."
Of course God loves liars, He loves everyone even evolutionists.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #325 on: February 14, 2012, 12:37:27 PM »
Now quick, Rhocam, hide your eyes and continue lying.  I’m sure your god won’t mind.  He likes liars right? 

He loves liars. After all, he was the first liar. You remember that whole A&E thing ("on the day you touch this you'll die"), right?

They died a spiritual death, duh, basic theology. You are quoting the very thing your nameskae claimed. "you will not surely die."
Of course God loves liars, He loves everyone even evolutionists.

unfortunately,  rhocam, I've read your bible and I know that this god supposedly hates anyone who disagrees with it and wants them killed.   He also hates liars, especially thsoe who think they are lying *for* him *.  That's in Romans 3.  The bible says that he hates liars repeatedly, take a look at Proverbs.  Honestly, have you ever actually read your entire "holy book"?  It seems not.   

and it's sad to watch Christians have to make up stories wholesale to excuse their primitive collection of myths.  They all come up with different "interpretations" and show their religion to be nothing more than another man-made bit of nonsense like any other religion in history.  Now, back to evolutionary theory, rhocam.  You've been shown transitional fossils. We see evolutionary theory being supported by modern medicine and modern farming.   You've been shown to be a hypocrite and quite ignorant about things you claim are wrong.  Since you have no idea what evolutionary theory really discusses, how fossils are created and how they support evolutionary theory, etc, why should anyone think you know what's wrong with something you haven't a clue about?   It's like me believing the baseless opnions of my mechanic when it comes to the health of my magnolia.   
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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #326 on: February 14, 2012, 12:41:24 PM »
They died a spiritual death, duh, basic theology.

So is the "death" as punishment for any and all "sins" also "spiritual"? If not, why is it that the exact same word is used for different things?

You are quoting the very thing your nameskae claimed. "you will not surely die."

You should read the Bible some time. Lucifer, the snake and Satan are three different mythical figures.
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Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #327 on: February 14, 2012, 01:35:01 PM »

unfortunately,  rhocam, I've read your bible and I know that this god supposedly hates anyone who disagrees with it and wants them killed.   He also hates liars, especially thsoe who think they are lying *for* him *.  That's in Romans 3.  The bible says that he hates liars repeatedly, take a look at Proverbs.  Honestly, have you ever actually read your entire "holy book"?  It seems not.   

and it's sad to watch Christians have to make up stories wholesale to excuse their primitive collection of myths.  They all come up with different "interpretations" and show their religion to be nothing more than another man-made bit of nonsense like any other religion in history.  Now, back to evolutionary theory, rhocam.  You've been shown transitional fossils. We see evolutionary theory being supported by modern medicine and modern farming.   You've been shown to be a hypocrite and quite ignorant about things you claim are wrong.  Since you have no idea what evolutionary theory really discusses, how fossils are created and how they support evolutionary theory, etc, why should anyone think you know what's wrong with something you haven't a clue about?   It's like me believing the baseless opnions of my mechanic when it comes to the health of my magnolia.   

Where are the transitional fossils?

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #328 on: February 14, 2012, 01:36:39 PM »
They're inside a bunch of poorly nested quotes.

Seriously, though - transitonal fossils of which lineage?  Ammonites have a very comprehensive record of clearly tranitional forms.  Ever heard of ammonites?
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Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #329 on: February 14, 2012, 01:45:04 PM »
They died a spiritual death, duh, basic theology.

So is the "death" as punishment for any and all "sins" also "spiritual"? If not, why is it that the exact same word is used for different things?

You are quoting the very thing your nameskae claimed. "you will not surely die."

You should read the Bible some time. Lucifer, the snake and Satan are three different mythical figures.

No they are not. You should read it somtime.

Yes the death for all sins is spiritual. And the punishment - separation from God for eternity - is also spiritual. Now wether you believe in a soul or not precedes your belief in wether there is a God or not. If you have no soul no eternal part, then why would you fear God. If you have a soul but think God is unjust why would you want to spent eternity with Him anyways?

Physical death came about through spiritual death. When man chose to elevate himself to where God previously stated He belonged, We removed ourselves from His sustaining power. Now You might ask why then don't christian live forever? the presence of sin in this world has poisoned it. It is dying a slow painful death. Things are only going to get worse. As a christian I have belief that what Jesus did on the Cross paid for my sin, but my sin is still here. I have just been declared clean through my faith is His work. I am still sinful and will still die. But on the ressurection day, I will get a new body, one that is sinless. This is the one that I will spend eternity in.

Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #330 on: February 14, 2012, 01:46:57 PM »
They're inside a bunch of poorly nested quotes.

Seriously, though - transitonal fossils of which lineage?  Ammonites have a very comprehensive record of clearly tranitional forms.  Ever heard of ammonites?

You are not giving me illustrations of transitional fossils. you are giving me different ammonites. That is not a transitional form.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #331 on: February 14, 2012, 01:53:39 PM »
I am not giving you anything right now - I'm referring to something.

What would count as a transitional fossil, to you?
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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #332 on: February 14, 2012, 01:54:15 PM »
No they are not. You should read it somtime.

I did. Clearly you didn't. Do your research.
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Offline Ivellios

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #333 on: February 14, 2012, 02:08:26 PM »
You should read the Bible some time. Lucifer, the snake and Satan are three different mythical figures.

Rhocam, Lucifer is correct.

First there's the serpent. Unnamed, and for it's actions all snakes have no legs. If it was Satan possessing the serpent, or Satan himself, why punish an entire subsect of vertebrea for the actions of a powerful being it is powerless against?

In Isiah(?) Lucifer is the light bringer[literal], or morning star. Later in Revelations, Jesus himself declares himself to be the morning star.

In Job, Satan is a prosecuting attorney in God's employ who encourages God to let him "test" the faithful.

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #334 on: February 14, 2012, 02:10:24 PM »
I am not giving you anything right now - I'm referring to something.

What would count as a transitional fossil, to you?

We all know that kind of transitional fossil rhoham wants. He's been listening to Kirk Cammeron (or those like him) and wants his Crocoduck!

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #335 on: February 14, 2012, 02:14:42 PM »
You are not giving me illustrations of transitional fossils. you are giving me different ammonites. That is not a transitional form.
Can you say, "moving the goalposts"?

You can't demand transitional fossils or forms, and then when someone shows you some, say that they're not transitional at all, without even bothering to explain how or why that's the case.  Not without making it obvious that you weren't really interested in any kind of honest discussion in the first place.

Do you have any idea how many times creationists have claimed that there are no such things as transitional fossils, yet either don't define what a transitional fossil is or define it so ambiguously that it's useless for any reasonable purpose (and then drag the goalposts all around the field, changing the rules to suit their whims)?  It isn't just tiresome, it's petty and childish, especially since every single one who uses it apparently thinks that it's a perfectly valid and appropriate strategy despite the fact that it's anything but.

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #336 on: February 14, 2012, 02:16:35 PM »
<snip>

I just wish to point out that shifting goalposts is simply a dishonest way of admitting that one was wrong about something, whilst trying to make it seem as if one already knew what they were talking about.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #337 on: February 14, 2012, 02:20:57 PM »
Where are the transitional fossils?

I gave you a link with them. I'm so glad that you were too afraid to even look.  Hilarious.  So much for strength in your faith from some god.   And golly, I see the usual lies and moved goalposts used by Christians.  YOu don't even know what a transitional fossil is.   ;D  Wow, the amazing willful ignorance.  You just puke up the words becasue your creationist friends said the same thing.  They're wrong too.   It's a shame that you so little actual faith in your god that you are so desperate to listen to any lie and appear like quite a lazy and gullible person.  That can be fixed, no one knows everything about everything, but you have to be honest in your supposed quest for the truth.  AS it stands, you aren't.  You want to belief in a god that agrees with you and offers you magic presents, just like any Muslim or Hindu, Wicca or Shintoist, and you have the same lack of evidence.

also funny to see one more lie that Christians often feel the need to tell, that the world is getting worse.  Sorry, but that's not true either.  Tsk. 
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #338 on: February 14, 2012, 02:21:42 PM »
You can't demand transitional fossils or forms, and then when someone shows you some, say that they're not transitional at all, without even bothering to explain how or why that's the case. ...

He didn't even go that far.  I hadn't even presented them to him yet, and he pre-emtively declared that they wouldn't count.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #339 on: February 14, 2012, 02:25:40 PM »
Eh, they don't admit anything.  What they do is pretend to themselves that this is what their position always was, and if someone is so crass to bring up the old arguments, well...look a demon duck!  *runs*  (old webcomic joke)

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #340 on: February 14, 2012, 02:29:17 PM »
Eh, they don't admit anything.  What they do is pretend to themselves that this is what their position always was, and if someone is so crass to bring up the old arguments, well...look a demon duck!  *runs*  (old webcomic joke)

Like I said, they're (indirectly) admitting that they were wrong whilst trying to make it seem that they already had the position that was proven to be correct. Pathetic, but then again these are creationists we're talking about.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #341 on: February 14, 2012, 02:35:43 PM »
We keep getting theists who claim that there are no transitional fossils. They are obviously parroting other theists who make the same claim. Yet none of them seem to know what a transitional fossil is or is not, and none of them want to hear otherwise. I guess they do think one would look like a crocoduck and anything less doesn't count. Does Maytag make a brainwashing machine or something? How do so many get it so wrong?

I assume that if we had an fossilized example of every generation of living thing from the very beginning until today, except except for one, say from 32, 453,7222 years ago, the theists would claim our record is incomplete and hence can't prove anything.

We have to dig to find this stuff. We haven't dug everywhere and never will be able to. So we will never have a complete fossil record. But we've found lots of stuff and nothing we've found has caused us to think we should toss the whole thing out.

Accusations that there is some frickin' conspiracy out there to disprove a god or something via evolution are outrageous. Science goes where the facts go, wherever that is. It would be wonderful to claim "Hey, there is no bird flu. Never happened" and have the danger of a worldwide epidemic immediately go away. But reality is seldom that nice to us. And it's even less nice when we lie to ourselves about it.

Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Tykster

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #342 on: February 14, 2012, 04:08:40 PM »
You said: "So in my lifetime I should have seen two evolutionary changes."

Happy?

Actually virtually everything he said shows his utter ignorance of... well, everything.

I was being an obliging poster, what can I say ??? ;)
rhocam ~ I guess there are several trillion cells in a man, and one in an amoeba, so to be generous, lets say that there were a billion. That is one every fifteen years. So in my lifetime I should have seen two evolutionary changes.

Offline Brad the Bold

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #343 on: February 14, 2012, 04:14:15 PM »
We keep getting theists who claim that there are no transitional fossils. They are obviously parroting other theists who make the same claim. Yet none of them seem to know what a transitional fossil is or is not, and none of them want to hear otherwise. I guess they do think one would look like a crocoduck and anything less doesn't count. Does Maytag make a brainwashing machine or something? How do so many get it so wrong?

I assume that if we had an fossilized example of every generation of living thing from the very beginning until today, except except for one, say from 32, 453,7222 years ago, the theists would claim our record is incomplete and hence can't prove anything.

It's almost impossible to argue, even when it seems like it should be easier. Like Rhocams insistence that ammonites are just all different forms rather than slowly changing over eons.

And don't you dare think you win by filling in the gaps they pointed to previously.

Take the recent advances in the fossil history of whales. It's gone something like this...

1970's paleontologist: "Well whales must have evolved from land-dwelling mammals but we have no aquatic mammal fossils from most of the Eocene. I guess we keep digging because evolutionary theory predicts we will discover early Eocene semi aquatic protowhales with legs."

1970 creationist: "HaHa you godless moron there are no transitional fossils because God made whales as whales and cow as cows. It's obvious they are not related. Bossies to blowholes! LOLZ"

1990's paleontologist: "Look here's "Ambulocetus natans" a newly discovered protowhale with legs. And actually the teeth look like it was a descendant of mesonychids"

1990's creationist: "That's not a whale or a cow, that's just a another form. And now you have two gaps, you're loosing ground. AAAND you said cows before and mesonych-i-thingys now so you don't know what your talking about. God did it. HA!"

1990's paleontologist: "Well we never said cows, you said that. That's called a straw man. Anyway, we say mesonychids now because we found new evidence. And look we just found Pakicetus and Rhodocetus and Hapalodectes that fill in the early Eocene, like we predicted, and nicely bridge to those late Eocene Basilosaurus fossils we've had since the 1800's. Convinced now?"

1990's creationist: "Nope, there's even more gaps now than you had in the 70s. Losers! I could do this all day."

2000's paleontologist: "Phylogenetic analysis suggests that whales may be more closely related to hippopotamids than mesonychids."

2000's creationists: "You said cows and mesonychywhatever before and hippos now. You can't make up your minds, so God did it. Teach the controversy! Teach the controversy!"

2000's paleontologist: "Sigh..."

edit: Mispelled Basilosaurus
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 05:39:14 PM by Brad the Bold »

Offline screwtape

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #344 on: February 14, 2012, 04:31:09 PM »
Yes the death for all sins is spiritual. And the punishment - separation from God for eternity...

How do you equate separation with death?  In what way were Eve and Adam spiritually killed?  Their spirits were not said to have died.  I don't get it.  Please explain.

Physical death came about through spiritual death. When man chose to elevate himself to where God previously stated He belonged, We removed ourselves from His sustaining power.

?  wtf?  First of all, we didn't do anything of the sort.  You are alleging two primordial people did this.  And you are alleging we still suffer the punishment for this several thousand generations later. And xians have the gall to talk about a "just god".  Right.

Secondly, they did not remove themselves from his power.  They were thrown out and the door was blocked by armed guards. 

Thirdly, it was not yhwh's sustaining power they were removed from.  It was the tree of life, from which they were not forbidden to eat.

I hope that clears up your misunderstanding.

As a christian I have belief that what Jesus did on the Cross paid for my sin, but my sin is still here.

So... jesus now owns your sin?  How does that help you?  Does that mean jesus H died spiritually?  You xians really need to work on communicating more clearly.  Nothing you are saying makes any sense to me.

I have just been declared clean through my faith is His work. I am still sinful and will still die. But on the ressurection day, I will get a new body, one that is sinless. This is the one that I will spend eternity in.

Wait wait wait.  You'll get a sinless body?  Wtf, again?  If your soul is really you, then why would the body matter?  Why would sin stick to a body?  Is it like a sin-filter that keeps the sin from getting on your soul?  Then when you died, your sin would stay behind on the body and your sinless soul could go be with baby jesus.  Right? 

What you are saying sounds, well, crazy.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #345 on: February 14, 2012, 04:33:34 PM »
Well Brad, for theists, evidence is always inadequate when it's inconvenient.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #346 on: February 14, 2012, 05:42:51 PM »
You are not giving me illustrations of transitional fossils. you are giving me different ammonites. That is not a transitional form.
Can you say, "moving the goalposts"?

You can't demand transitional fossils or forms, and then when someone shows you some, say that they're not transitional at all, without even bothering to explain how or why that's the case.  Not without making it obvious that you weren't really interested in any kind of honest discussion in the first place.

Do you have any idea how many times creationists have claimed that there are no such things as transitional fossils, yet either don't define what a transitional fossil is or define it so ambiguously that it's useless for any reasonable purpose (and then drag the goalposts all around the field, changing the rules to suit their whims)?  It isn't just tiresome, it's petty and childish, especially since every single one who uses it apparently thinks that it's a perfectly valid and appropriate strategy despite the fact that it's anything but.

No you are not showing transitional forms. you are showing ammonites and telling me they are transitional forms.
Speculation based on presumption that is ALL EVOLUTION IS

Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #347 on: February 14, 2012, 05:48:05 PM »
I am waiting. evolution is built by you. so defend it now. Where are your transitional forms, The gradual transition needed by darwinism? I didn't make the theory of evolution. I am challenging it. So take me beyond speculation and presumption then.
Where is the "crocoduc" as you mock me with. Or give me good reason to beleive that amoeba to men is possible!!

If science is observable, where is your evidence?

I will respond to this and only this