Author Topic: Evolution Explained  (Read 30639 times)

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #261 on: February 13, 2012, 12:49:10 AM »
My turn, my turn.
EVOLUTION EXPLAINED

ignoring the obvious (there is design therefore a Designer)
through exploring the frivolous (these bones mean I am right)
to defend the ludicrous (I can do what I want, there is not God)
 
*applause*
thank you

Don't worry rhocam, I'm note jumping all over you. But your allegation that I, as an atheist, can do anything I want because there is no god ignores two facts: One, I'm over 60 and I've never done whatever I want and that is because of Two, which is that I live on a planet with family and friends, in a social group, in a neighborhood, near a small down, in a state that is part of a country which is part of a global family and my actions, if poorly or selfishly chosen, could negatively affect others. I have moral standards too, as do most atheists. Atheists that don't will get just as much distain from me as christians acting against christian moral standards.

Just didn't want you to think you were right with that claim. You think there is a designer, and we can discuss that all you want, each of us expressing our opinions. But I will argue in a very different way any allegation that I am an irresponsible assh*le because I am a atheist. As will others here. You might stick to your ID thesis.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline jetson

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #262 on: February 13, 2012, 07:00:23 AM »
My turn, my turn.
EVOLUTION EXPLAINED

ignoring the obvious (there is design therefore a Designer)
through exploring the frivolous (these bones mean I am right)
to defend the ludicrous (I can do what I want, there is not God)
 
*applause*
thank you

I'm not sure if I should start with a welcome, or a smite?  But, welcome to the forum anyway.  It's not often we get new members who applaud themselves for completely unsupported assertions....wait?

Offline velkyn

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #263 on: February 13, 2012, 10:41:19 AM »
My turn, my turn.
EVOLUTION EXPLAINED

ignoring the obvious (there is design therefore a Designer)
through exploring the frivolous (these bones mean I am right)
to defend the ludicrous (I can do what I want, there is not God)
 
*applause*
thank you

wow, a Christian who is using the same old lies as always. How "impressive".  It could simply be from these antics that one gets to know that there is no God, or at least that it's an idiot, if these are the best it has to defend itself.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #264 on: February 13, 2012, 10:50:08 AM »
My turn, my turn.
EVOLUTION EXPLAINED

ignoring the obvious (there is design therefore a Designer)
through exploring the frivolous (these bones mean I am right)
to defend the ludicrous (I can do what I want, there is not God)
 
*applause*
thank you
And here I was expecting something that was reasonably serious, rather than a blatant attempt at a joke, and a sad one at that.

Come now, you can do better than a lame attempt at a rhyme if you want to demonstrate that you're correct.  Surely you can show that the appearance of design actually means something?  Surely you can demonstrate why the existence of bones mean you're right?  Surely you can show what a statement about "I can do what I want if there is no God" morality has to do with the actual process of scientific discovery.

Or perhaps you can't.  But in that case, you've lost before you even begin.

Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #265 on: February 13, 2012, 01:45:27 PM »
My turn, my turn.
EVOLUTION EXPLAINED

ignoring the obvious (there is design therefore a Designer)
through exploring the frivolous (these bones mean I am right)
to defend the ludicrous (I can do what I want, there is not God)
 
*applause*
thank you

wow, a Christian who is using the same old lies as always. How "impressive".  It could simply be from these antics that one gets to know that there is no God, or at least that it's an idiot, if these are the best it has to defend itself.

Does my little explaination bother you?  The whole point behind it was to illustrate the lies you cling to in order to fight the truth I profess. I have no reason to believe evolution. to argue that because I am an idiot there is no God is petty and baseless.  These antics are based not on "scientific" evaluation true. Does that mean they are wrong? The evidence is more slanted towards design rather that chaos. Because I claim there is design and therefore a designer does not disqualify my point. You are actually enhancing my point. so I say thank you

Offline One Above All

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #266 on: February 13, 2012, 01:48:36 PM »
Does my little explaination bother you?

What "explaination"? :S
All I saw was a bunch of false assertions.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #267 on: February 13, 2012, 01:49:19 PM »
Yeah.  Anything can be made to sound ridiculous if you're willing to lie about it.  Which is what rhocam has done.  Kinda lame, that.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #268 on: February 13, 2012, 02:23:36 PM »
Does my little explaination bother you?  The whole point behind it was to illustrate the lies you cling to in order to fight the truth I profess. I have no reason to believe evolution. to argue that because I am an idiot there is no God is petty and baseless.  These antics are based not on "scientific" evaluation true. Does that mean they are wrong? The evidence is more slanted towards design rather that chaos. Because I claim there is design and therefore a designer does not disqualify my point. You are actually enhancing my point. so I say thank you
So, we "cling to lies" while you "profess truth".  Can you prove it, or is this like those statements you just made in your "explanation", which are based on nothing except your lack of understanding?

You say you have no reason to believe evolution.  So, you've never gotten any immunizations?  You've never been treated with an antibiotic for an illness?  You've never eaten products from a domestic animal raised on a farm that produces food?  You've never eaten domestic crops grown on a farm?  All of those, and more, are evidence for evolution, so the only way you can say that you have no reason to "believe" (more accurately, accept) it is if you have never done any of these things.  Otherwise, you have reasons to accept evolution that you are not aware of.

You also need to work on your reading comprehension.  Velkyn did not call you an idiot; she said that your antics demonstrate that either there is no God at all, or that such a God is an idiot.

You say that the evidence is slanted towards design, yet you say that you are not using science (scientific methodology) to evaluate it.  So, what are you using instead, then?  You cannot just point to something and say, "that's designed, therefore someone designed it."  You have to show that it did not happen because of natural processes (explained by things like fractals or chaos theory) which seem to mimic design but actually do not.  The fact that you claim there is design and therefore a designer does not have anything to do with anything unless you can clearly show that there is actual design in the first place.

Can you rebut my arguments?  Staying silent instead of answering will not make a difference here.  If you cannot rebut my arguments, then your own hold no weight.

Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #269 on: February 13, 2012, 02:30:23 PM »
My turn, my turn.
EVOLUTION EXPLAINED

ignoring the obvious (there is design therefore a Designer)
through exploring the frivolous (these bones mean I am right)
to defend the ludicrous (I can do what I want, there is not God)
 
*applause*
thank you

I'm not sure if I should start with a welcome, or a smite?  But, welcome to the forum anyway.  It's not often we get new members who applaud themselves for completely unsupported assertions....wait?

I do not think that my assertations being a rhyme make them less true. I wanted to make a verse to help you remember it. I do however take offence to my assertations being unsupported. please allow me to illustrate how.

1 ignoring the obvious.

because it has been prefaced with the claim "there is no God". Scientist are having to explain nature without appealing to a higher power. Not even evolution is allowed to be called any more than chance and happenstance. You have no explaination for why life arose, I in the belief of a God do.

2 exploring the frivolous

how do bones show any bearing on my life now? even IF evolution is true, what is it to me? How does it help me pay the bills? What can it give to me in trying to teach my children morals and kindness? why would i care about what you have to say regarding where I came from? I in the belief of a God have answers to all those questions

3 to defend the ludicrous
 The claim that there is no God, I can do what I want. I look at the REAL world. Being people and how they interact with each other and ask you. Is that not the very statement being made throughout our culture? Nobody appeals to a higher power for accountability. Those of us who do are mocked and ridiculed, all the while society falls apart around us.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #270 on: February 13, 2012, 02:34:11 PM »
Someone doesn't know what "supported" means.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #271 on: February 13, 2012, 02:44:21 PM »
Does my little explaination bother you?  The whole point behind it was to illustrate the lies you cling to in order to fight the truth I profess. I have no reason to believe evolution. to argue that because I am an idiot there is no God is petty and baseless.  These antics are based not on "scientific" evaluation true. Does that mean they are wrong? The evidence is more slanted towards design rather that chaos. Because I claim there is design and therefore a designer does not disqualify my point. You are actually enhancing my point. so I say thank you
So, we "cling to lies" while you "profess truth".  Can you prove it, or is this like those statements you just made in your "explanation", which are based on nothing except your lack of understanding?

You say you have no reason to believe evolution.  So, you've never gotten any immunizations?  You've never been treated with an antibiotic for an illness?  You've never eaten products from a domestic animal raised on a farm that produces food?  You've never eaten domestic crops grown on a farm?  All of those, and more, are evidence for evolution, so the only way you can say that you have no reason to "believe" (more accurately, accept) it is if you have never done any of these things.  Otherwise, you have reasons to accept evolution that you are not aware of.

You also need to work on your reading comprehension.  Velkyn did not call you an idiot; she said that your antics demonstrate that either there is no God at all, or that such a God is an idiot.

You say that the evidence is slanted towards design, yet you say that you are not using science (scientific methodology) to evaluate it.  So, what are you using instead, then?  You cannot just point to something and say, "that's designed, therefore someone designed it."  You have to show that it did not happen because of natural processes (explained by things like fractals or chaos theory) which seem to mimic design but actually do not.  The fact that you claim there is design and therefore a designer does not have anything to do with anything unless you can clearly show that there is actual design in the first place.

Can you rebut my arguments?  Staying silent instead of answering will not make a difference here.  If you cannot rebut my arguments, then your own hold no weight.

Science has NOT shown how it could happen without a designer. Scientists have looked at the evidence and tried to explain what "might" and I stress might have happened. There is no empiricle evidence to support their assertations. I know I know, i can read and when I read their assertations I ask the same thing you are asking me. They are no longer conducting science they are thinking Hypothetically, regarding how it might have happened.

How do the presence of vaccinations demonstrate the need to believe in evolution, exactly? To take a small amount of a disease and use it to avoid a large amount of the disease is not "evolution".

I am not a scientist. true, and I may not know all the ins and out of scientific mythology sorry method. But I am able to observe, and the world I see, the world I live in has design. I can expect gravity to work, the same every day. I can expect the sun to come up, every day. You can ignore the obvious in pursiut of your "science". But I ask you, wouldn't time be better spend enjoying the design instead of trying to ignore it?



 

Offline One Above All

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #272 on: February 13, 2012, 02:46:17 PM »
<snip>

Clearly, rhocam has a point. My design is clear all throughout My creation. After all, I created it to be that way. Just because you guys refuse to accept My divine gift to you doesn't mean it's false.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #273 on: February 13, 2012, 02:47:21 PM »
Does my little explaination bother you?

What "explaination"? :S
All I saw was a bunch of false assertions.

You are quite willing to believe we came from nothing to return to nothing, why?

Offline One Above All

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #274 on: February 13, 2012, 02:51:08 PM »
You are quite willing to believe we came from nothing to return to nothing, why?

What is your basis for assuming this?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #275 on: February 13, 2012, 02:51:48 PM »
<snip>

Clearly, rhocam has a point. My design is clear all throughout My creation. After all, I created it to be that way. Just because you guys refuse to accept My divine gift to you doesn't mean it's false.

So you prove you understand God and the rammifications of believing in Him. You are also demonstrating a clear dislike for it. So I ask, is your position based on evidence or a dislike of religion?

Offline One Above All

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #276 on: February 13, 2012, 02:53:30 PM »
So you prove you understand God and the rammifications of believing in Him. You are also demonstrating a clear dislike for it. So I ask, is your position based on evidence or a dislike of religion?

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You will bow down and profess your love unto Me, your Lord. Or I shall destroy you.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 03:00:00 PM by Lucifer »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Brad the Bold

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #277 on: February 13, 2012, 03:15:37 PM »

EDIT: Post 5555. Further proof of My perfection.


The theological implications are staggering...

Offline One Above All

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #278 on: February 13, 2012, 03:15:57 PM »

EDIT: Post 5555. Further proof of My perfection.


The theological implications are staggering...

IKR
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #279 on: February 13, 2012, 03:18:04 PM »
rhocam, had you been born in India you would be applying all of this design stuff to your hindu gods. Had you been born in Addis Ababa you would be all hot for allah. You were born here, you're hot for your version of the christian god.

You see design where others do not. Each of us could look at an iPod or a Chrysler and see design, but lots of people look at nature and don't see it. We have differing opinions, and each of us thinks we are right, or at least closer to being right. Those of us in who see scientific evidence for non-design are able to give a list of reasons why we think that to be the case. ID'ers tend to just point and say "Look, it had to be designed!". We get little in the way of reasoning from those of you to appear unclear on the concept.

And by the way, nobody in science is saying that we came from nothing. It turns out that there is no such thing as nothing. Even in the deep dark recesses of space energy is being converted to matter and back billions of times per second in any give cubic foot of that space, and sometimes the matter sticks around instead of being reconverted to energy. This is good. That's one of the reasons we are here.

Again on  your allegations of morality via your god. Claiming that you christians are standing there being really really nice while the world falls apart around you ignores a lot of things. Like how much you are oversimplifying the problem. And how christians like Jim and Tammy Fae Baker, Kent Hovind, Warren Jeffs and others have had their own fallings out with the law. Not to mention that catholic preist thing. I know you're  not catholic but you guys all use the same book, so you can't wash your hands of them completely. Anyway, christians don't have a monopoly on anything, good or bad.

Your first post, in another thread, was nice and long though it didn't go into any detail. You are keeping your posts very short here and hence saying very little. We are all running around reading between the lines because you are offering little other than rejection and incredulity. You won't accomplish much, for your cause or any other, unless you put a bit more energy into your posts and give us your thinking behind your assumptions. Surely there is some.

Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #280 on: February 13, 2012, 03:19:00 PM »
Does my little explaination bother you?  The whole point behind it was to illustrate the lies you cling to in order to fight the truth I profess. I have no reason to believe evolution. to argue that because I am an idiot there is no God is petty and baseless.  These antics are based not on "scientific" evaluation true. Does that mean they are wrong? The evidence is more slanted towards design rather that chaos. Because I claim there is design and therefore a designer does not disqualify my point. You are actually enhancing my point. so I say thank you

It's not an explanation. It's just wishful thinking with no evidence to support it, Rho, and evidence you don't even understand what you try to attack.  The same science that supports evolutionary theory is the same science you benefit from.  You are just too willfully ignorant to know that you are quite a hypocrite.   

I did not call you an idiot, I called your god one.   If you wish to claim that nature is "intelligently designed", then your god is quite inept at designing *anything*.  I could design better. 

And no I have not "enhanced" your point.  Your claim is baseless and you have no evidence to support it so, yes, there is a reason to disreguard such mythological nonsense.  It's just as silly as a Hindu claiming that Vishnu was the creator.   

oh and I do like your false witnessing, Rho.  I have come to expect that from a Christian.
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Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #281 on: February 13, 2012, 03:42:39 PM »
Please call me rhocam, or cam.

To claim that had I been born in India I would be a Hindu is false. There are Hindu's in Canada, and Christians in India.

Does my little explanation bother you?  The whole point behind it was to illustrate the lies you cling to in order to fight the truth I profess. I have no reason to believe evolution. to argue that because I am an idiot there is no God is petty and baseless.  These antics are based not on "scientific" evaluation true. Does that mean they are wrong? The evidence is more slanted towards design rather that chaos. Because I claim there is design and therefore a designer does not disqualify my point. You are actually enhancing my point. so I say thank you

It's not an explanation. It's just wishful thinking with no evidence to support it, Rho, and evidence you don't even understand what you try to attack.  The same science that supports evolutionary theory is the same science you benefit from.  You are just too willfully ignorant to know that you are quite a hypocrite.   

I did not call you an idiot, I called your god one.   If you wish to claim that nature is "intelligently designed", then your god is quite inept at designing *anything*.  I could design better. 

And no I have not "enhanced" your point.  Your claim is baseless and you have no evidence to support it so, yes, there is a reason to disregard such mythological nonsense.  It's just as silly as a Hindu claiming that Vishnu was the creator.   

oh and I do like your false witnessing, Rho.  I have come to expect that from a Christian.


I am a christian not by birth, nor by indoctrination. I was not a Christian until I was in my early 20's. I did not stumble into Christianity, but rather sought out truth. I realize that I am talking to the wrong people about this, but will continue none the less. I believe that I am the sum of more than just my parts. I have parts (soul, mind, will) that are unexplained by science. There are questions I had that were unanswerable through evolution. Such as the basics in journalism, who what when where and why. If we can't apply those questions to evolution and answer them, how can we claim evolution is true? Or is evolution above answering for itself?
Now to be clear I have little use for religion. I agree that It can be too easily used to control people. But that Did Not cause me to doubt the possibility of a designer nor of a desire to know how to do something that mattered. To state that my claim is baseless is to deny me my freedom to think. I am allowed to think, and to express those thoughts. You don't have to agree with them, but you have no right to dismiss them, especially since you only dismiss them because they don't agree with yours. 
cam
ps To call ones God an idiot is actually more offensive than to call them one.


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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #282 on: February 13, 2012, 03:48:01 PM »
You don't have to agree with them, but you have no right to dismiss them, especially since you only dismiss them because they don't agree with yours. 

I think we're dismissing each other in pretty much the same way. If you think your posts aren't dismissing our position but ours are dismissing yours you might re-read a few of the things you said.

I'd get over the personal aspects of this discussion and get on to telling us why you feel this way. Again, just saying that it looks like design doesn't satisfy anyone around here. Give us reasons. Give us something that no other ID'er has ever managed to do. Explain something.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #283 on: February 13, 2012, 03:49:17 PM »
Does my little explaination bother you?

I found it...disappointing.  It does bother me when people have such a horrible misunderstanding of me and reality in general.  Plus, you were a real asshole in the way you went about it.  Admit it, you were trying to be offensive.

You said:

ignoring the obvious (there is design therefore a Designer)
through exploring the frivolous (these bones mean I am right)
to defend the ludicrous (I can do what I want, there is not God)

I don't find design to be obvious and not because I ignore it.  I just honestly do not see design or the need for a designer.  Plus, even if I saw design, it explains nothing.  It just moves the question one step farther away - where did the designer come from? 

And your trollish triplet implies that ToE was invented to aleviate guilty minds.  How on earth does that make sense? You are saying that the most scrutinized theory in science has survived 150 years in the science world just because it makes scientists feel better about their shabby ethics.  Earth to rhocam, scientists are not a pack of crazed, murderous hedonists. They don't need the ToE for that.  They keep it around for its explanatory power.


The whole point behind it was to illustrate the lies you cling to in order to fight the truth I profess.

What lies?  Be specific.  And show how you know they are lies.


I am not a scientist. true, and I may not know all the ins and out of scientific mythology sorry method.

So, maybe you should not be shouting your stupid, completely unqualified opinion from the rooftops?

"science".

What's with the quotes around science?  That and the snotty mythology barb make it look like you have a problem with science in general.

 
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Offline rhocam

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #284 on: February 13, 2012, 04:00:12 PM »
Intelligent Design

The rules governing life are and have been the same as long as life has been.
Our lack of understanding regarding the rules does not change them.
Our understanding of the rules has changed, and continues to do so, the rules do not change.
The rules are immutable. We do not question that they are there, we only question why they are there.
Without the rules there would be no life on this planet.
How did the rules get here and why do they not change?
 I claim it is because there is a Designer. The very fact that the rules don't change suggests there is something Keeping them from changing. You live your life in the belief that Gravity will hold you to the surface of the earth. why, if chaos and randomness created this, how can you be sure they wont change at any moment? It is because you believe there is "something" keeping them this way. Allow me to introduce to to that "something" I call Him God

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #285 on: February 13, 2012, 04:04:56 PM »
Science has NOT shown how it could happen without a designer. Scientists have looked at the evidence and tried to explain what "might" and I stress might have happened. There is no empiricle evidence to support their assertations. I know I know, i can read and when I read their assertations I ask the same thing you are asking me. They are no longer conducting science they are thinking Hypothetically, regarding how it might have happened.
I'm guessing you don't really understand scientific methodology, from your response.  That is the only way that you could say there was no empirical evidence to support what scientists have come up without knowingly lying about it.  You see, the scientific method starts with an observation - the empirical evidence you say that scientists don't have.  They then come up with an explanation for it, and test that explanation against the observation, modifying the explanation if they don't match.  So as you can see, the whole point is that scientists do indeed have empirical and objective evidence to back up their explanations, contrary to what you might think.

Quote from: rhocam
How do the presence of vaccinations demonstrate the need to believe in evolution, exactly? To take a small amount of a disease and use it to avoid a large amount of the disease is not "evolution".
The microorganisms that cause diseases constantly evolve to adapt to our defensive measures (both the natural ones produced by the body and the artificial ones we use in vaccines and medicines).  Therefore, an understanding of how that evolution happens is essential to being able to stay ahead of the disease organisms and keep large numbers of people from dying.

Quote from: rhocam
I am not a scientist. true, and I may not know all the ins and out of scientific mythology sorry method.
That much is obvious.  In fact, the real question is whether you knew anything about scientific methodology in the first place.  If you did, you've done an exceptionally good job of keeping it hidden.

Quote from: rhocam
But I am able to observe, and the world I see, the world I live in has design. I can expect gravity to work, the same every day. I can expect the sun to come up, every day. You can ignore the obvious in pursiut of your "science". But I ask you, wouldn't time be better spend enjoying the design instead of trying to ignore it?
Observations don't demonstrate design, arguments do, and to be blunt, your arguments in favor of design are so severely lacking as to be nonexistent.  The only reason you think there is design is because it's obvious to you?  Well, to many cultures, lightning was "obviously" an expression of divine wrath.  Yet we've demonstrated that lightning has a perfectly natural and understandable cause that doesn't require a deity to make it happen.  We've even successfully harnessed it to power the computer you type your messages on and many other things.

That is the reason we have science and the scientific method.  You can say that our time would be better spent "enjoying the design", but without the people who you claim are "ignoring the obvious", most of the conveniences that you use as part of your daily life would not exist.  At all.  Imagine having no computer, no automobile, no cell phone, just for starters.  No refrigerator.  No electric oven.  No central air conditioning.  No airplanes.  All of these things came about because of the scientists you're busy badmouthing because you dislike the idea of evolution.

Again, can you rebut my arguments?  Especially, can you prove that modern technology would have come about without science?  If you cannot, then your own arguments hold no weight.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #286 on: February 13, 2012, 04:05:48 PM »
Intelligent Design

The rules governing life are and have been the same as long as life has been.
Our lack of understanding regarding the rules does not change them.
Our understanding of the rules has changed, and continues to do so, the rules do not change.
The rules are immutable. We do not question that they are there, we only question why they are there.
Without the rules there would be no life on this planet.
How did the rules get here and why do they not change?
we don't know doesn't mean "goddidit". 

Quote
I claim it is because there is a Designer. The very fact that the rules don't change suggests there is something Keeping them from changing. You live your life in the belief that Gravity will hold you to the surface of the earth. why, if chaos and randomness created this, how can you be sure they wont change at any moment? It is because you believe there is "something" keeping them this way. Allow me to introduce to to that "something" I call Him God

why does rules not changing mean that there is something keeping them from changing?  Why is it not simply "they can't change"?   As much evidence for that as for your boogeyman.     And no, rho, I don't beleive that there is something "keeping" them in any way.   

So, do you claim tht your god is the one described in the bible?   Why?  What evidence do you have that you are magically "right"? 
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #287 on: February 13, 2012, 04:06:20 PM »
I claim it is because there is a Designer.

that would require you demonstrate a designer.  And explain where the designer came from.  And explain why if not an infinite regression of designers, the designer does not need a designer.

The very fact that the rules don't change suggests there is something Keeping them from changing.

?  Why?  Do rules just change unless tended to?  Holy shit!  Who's keeping the rules to Monopoly from changing?  I've not played in years.  Are they the same?

You live your life in the belief that Gravity will hold you to the surface of the earth. why, if chaos and randomness created this, how can you be sure they wont change at any moment?

You are either misrepresenting ToE as "chaoes and randomness" or you are obnoxiously ignorant of it. 

It is because you believe there is "something" keeping them this way. Allow me to introduce to to that "something" I call Him God

Yeah yeah yeah.  One more unsupported claim.
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #288 on: February 13, 2012, 04:10:14 PM »
The very fact that the rules don't change suggests there is something Keeping them from changing. You live your life in the belief that Gravity will hold you to the surface of the earth. why, if chaos and randomness created this, how can you be sure they wont change at any moment? It is because you believe there is "something" keeping them this way.

I think you have this exactly backwards.  The fact that the rules never change is not an argument in favor of the existence of a deity, it's actually an argument against one.  If there were an omnipotent being somewhere that was concerned with events in the universe, we should be seeing the rules getting broken all the time, but we don't.[1]

Believers, for the most part, act as if they were atheists.[2]  When they walk across a bridge, they don't concern themselves with whether the bridge might suddenly vanish.  When planning a road trip, they don't entertain the possibility that the gas tank might get magically refilled by their deity at some point -- they make note on their maps or GPS devices of the locations of gas stations.  Believers get health insurance just like atheists do, even though believers should believe that they don't need any.  When their loved ones die, they are not overjoyed by the knowledge that their loved ones are now "with the angels" -- they cry and weep and wail, just as they would if the person were actually dead and gone.  One could go on for hours.
 1. This is, of course, only an argument against an interventionist deity, not a Deistic one.
 2. I'm not saying that they are atheists, only that they act like it.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #289 on: February 13, 2012, 04:14:40 PM »
I am a christian not by birth, nor by indoctrination. I was not a Christian until I was in my early 20's. I did not stumble into Christianity, but rather sought out truth. I realize that I am talking to the wrong people about this, but will continue none the less. I believe that I am the sum of more than just my parts. I have parts (soul, mind, will) that are unexplained by science. There are questions I had that were unanswerable through evolution. Such as the basics in journalism, who what when where and why. If we can't apply those questions to evolution and answer them, how can we claim evolution is true? Or is evolution above answering for itself?
  BS.  I'm guessing you are from the western world, most likely from the US.  You want to create a back story that says you only sought out truth, but strange on how you found the "truth" on your doorstep.  And ooh, talking to the "wrong people", how nice.   Your mind is a result of your brain and that is quite well explained by sciene.   As always, you are one more creationist Christian who is either too lazy or too fearful to actually know about what you try to so ineptly attack.  Evolution doesn't need to answer your little questions, and hate to tell you, your religion doesn't answer them at all.  It only gives baseless claims like any other set of myths.   I like the Egyptian pantheon so why not claim that it's true becuase I like it best; it's the same as your nonsense.
Quote
Now to be clear I have little use for religion. I agree that It can be too easily used to control people. But that Did Not cause me to doubt the possibility of a designer nor of a desire to know how to do something that mattered. To state that my claim is baseless is to deny me my freedom to think. I am allowed to think, and to express those thoughts. You don't have to agree with them, but you have no right to dismiss them, especially since you only dismiss them because they don't agree with yours. 
cam
ps To call ones God an idiot is actually more offensive than to call them one.
Oh and here we go with the theist being all sure that they don’t like religion too.  Sorry, but you follow a religion, just like those other theists who you look down your nose at.  And sorry, your baseless claim isn’t equal to a fact based claim.  You can think all of the stupid things you want but as soon as you claim them as real, then you are going to be asked for evidence.  I’d ask the same of someone who claimed fairies were real too.  You can express your thoughts too but again, I’m going to ask you to prove tht your little fantasies are true.  I can dismiss them as much as I would dismiss any idiot who would claim that the Nazis didn’t kill millions of people.  I dismiss them because they have nothting to support them. They are fantasies until proven otherwise. 

And yep, I’m calling your god an idiot, rhocam.  Yep, that’ means that I am indeed implying that you are also an idiot for worshipping something so inept.  So prove me wrong, show me evidence that your claims are correct and not one more bunch of myths to add to the dungheap of history.
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