Author Topic: Evolution Explained  (Read 35755 times)

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Online wright

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2011, 02:05:27 PM »
Had you asked in different manner I may have continued the discussion. Clearly, you are getting combative. Respectfully, while we all stand behind what we believe in, being confrontational ends all discussions. Again, thank you for your input and yes, I do intend to examine the links provided. Regards.

Perhaps I was too quick to judge you unfairly; if so I apologize. We get a lot of drive-by Christian posters who, at the slightest hint of being actually challenged, preach at us and flee, never to return.

I'll try to be less twitchy in future... What do you know; maybe I managed to learn something ;).
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2011, 02:26:54 PM »
We can't have a discussion about evolution if what you characterize evolution as being doesn't reflect actual science.

Why would you expect us to do otherwise?

A question you ignored here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,6317.msg436177.html#msg436177
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2011, 02:45:00 PM »
Evolution can not be proven.
What's your criteria for proven or not proven?  Scientific theories are proven by testing them repeatedly and seeing if any of the results contradict the theory.  If any do, the theory is revised in light of the new information.  This applies to all scientific theories, including evolution, universal gravity, and atomic theory.  If your criteria for proving something is different than that, then I say that it cannot reasonably apply to a scientific theory.

Where are the missing links, those being fossils showing any living creature transforming from one to the next. Even one.  They don't exist.
What do you mean by 'transforming'?  Are you talking about a chimera, where you have a creature that is part one animal and part another?  That's not what a transitional form (a "missing link") is.  A transitional form is a form that falls between one life form and another, that shows a general line of descent.

To me, it's is considerably easier to believe in God and that He created all of life than it is to believe in evolution.
Science is not about ease of belief.  "God did it" is the simplest possible explanation, but it is also the most worthless one for purposes of actually discovering anything meaningful about anything.

But we believe in faith, not because of science
I should hope not.  Science isn't really intended to teach people to take things on faith.

however, contrary to what you teach, science has not disproved Gods existence.
And it may never disprove the existence of God.  So what?  Science isn't about God, it's about figuring out the natural world on its own terms.

I invite your correction if I am wrong but doesn't the theory of evolution teach that all life came from a single cell organism?
Consider yourself corrected; the theory of evolution teaches that organisms that are well-adapted to their environment will be likely to survive and reproduce (this is known colloquially as "survival of the fittest").  Evolution, in and of itself, suggests nothing about the origins of life on Earth.  What suggests those origins are the lines of descent traced back through the history of the Earth, but that is not really part of any discussion about evolution.

You can accept that but not God?
If you had evidence which could be independently observed and verified which demonstrated the existence of a being which fit the attributes of God, then this might be a worthwhile question.  As it is, it begs the question.

If believers in the Holy bible are wrong then we lose nothing. We just die. But if the bible is true, and the saved burn in hell for eternity then I caution you to carefully consider what you are preaching.
Pascal's wager, which to be frank, is kind of worthless.  I submit that if God exists, and has the attributes of being just and benevolent as Christians claim, then he would not need to punish nonbelievers (the unsaved, I think you mean) with eternal hellfire, because that serves neither justice nor benevolence.  Therefore, there is no reason at all to believe out of fear of eternal punishment.

If you see a painting there must be a painter. See a building there must be a builder. See a creation there must be a creator. There was a beginning. If I am correct in my faith, then I prey "May God bless you and open you heart and eyes to the truth. Amen".
This presumes that the universe was created, which is by no means proven.  So your examples of a painter needing a painting, a building needing a builder, and a creation needing a creator, are moot.  You cannot prove that the universe was created merely by stating that something that was created needs a creator.

Offline jetson

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2011, 09:11:52 PM »
This presumes that the universe was created, which is by no means proven.  So your examples of a painter needing a painting, a building needing a builder, and a creation needing a creator, are moot.  You cannot prove that the universe was created merely by stating that something that was created needs a creator.

Not to mention, who created the creator!

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2011, 10:03:22 PM »
Oh dear monkey jesus.....this is what this person actually thinks.

Unreal. Just...wow.

Ok, the OP pretty much gave Iamabeliever everything he needs to get started, I wonder why he/she did not pursue that evidence before posting....looks like he/she just looked at the pictures.

Maybe a pop-up book?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Online Graybeard

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2011, 11:34:41 AM »
Without that proof I have two choices (at least to me).

#1 There is God and He created all of life, trees, elephants, people, cows, bugs etc.
1. Do you accept that since the Creation, animals, plants, etc, have undergone change? Or do you believe that the animals, plants, etc, that we see today are exactly the same as those that inhabited the earth at the time of creation - does a tiger, as it was created, look exactly like a tiger today? Does a man look the same as he did at creation?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2011, 01:23:57 PM »
1. Do you accept that since the Creation, animals, plants, etc, have undergone change? Or do you believe that the animals, plants, etc, that we see today are exactly the same as those that inhabited the earth at the time of creation - does a tiger, as it was created, look exactly like a tiger today? Does a man look the same as he did at creation?
The sad irony is that it appears many literal creationists actually do believe this, because of their belief that the Earth is only about 6,000 years old.  Never mind the fact that this belief is based on the ridiculous proposition that one can come up with the age of the Earth by adding up all the "begats" in the Bible.

Offline lbaker318

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2011, 10:13:37 PM »
Ok you are right that chocolate chips were made by accident. I said that accidents don't make anything perfect. You can't compare this universe to chocolate chips. And how were those chocolate chips made? From nothing? No, they were made from chocolate. What was chocolate made from? Was it made from nothing? No! Everything is made from something so God clearly made the world because he is God. And if you want to ask how was God created? Well I'm not going to lie. God is not a thing or person. God is God! He's always been here.

Offline jetson

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2011, 10:21:05 PM »
Ok you are right that chocolate chips were made by accident. I said that accidents don't make anything perfect. You can't compare this universe to chocolate chips. And how were those chocolate chips made? From nothing? No, they were made from chocolate. What was chocolate made from? Was it made from nothing? No! Everything is made from something so God clearly made the world because he is God. And if you want to ask how was God created? Well I'm not going to lie. God is not a thing or person. God is God! He's always been here.

That's simply not good enough for many of us.  All you are doing is making an assertion that God was not created, but everything else was created.  You are making it up, because you have no evidence that it is true.  In your mind, everything base to be created, therefore, you are not interested in ideas that challenge that assertion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation

Offline lbaker318

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2011, 10:25:06 PM »
Quote
Well, if you want to see fossils and other proof, might I suggest you go and actually look for them?  Right now, you're in the position of complaining about a lack of proof about something you haven't even researched to see what proof there is.

Evolution has nothing to do with something coming from nothing.  It has everything to do with how organisms develop over time.  Kindly make sure you at least understand what you're protesting against before you do so, it'll save you a lot of time and trouble.

Oh, and the universe is perfect?  News to me.

I believe is fossils. I never said I didn't! I want to see fosslis of the apes or other creatures that have "Changed" into another creature. Can you tell me this too, why are there still monkeys around?
 

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2011, 10:26:59 PM »
I believe is fossils. I never said I didn't! I want to see fosslis of the apes or other creatures that have "Changed" into another creature. Can you tell me this too, why are there still monkeys around?

If we tell you, will you honestly listen? 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline jetson

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2011, 10:33:39 PM »
Quote
Well, if you want to see fossils and other proof, might I suggest you go and actually look for them?  Right now, you're in the position of complaining about a lack of proof about something you haven't even researched to see what proof there is.

Evolution has nothing to do with something coming from nothing.  It has everything to do with how organisms develop over time.  Kindly make sure you at least understand what you're protesting against before you do so, it'll save you a lot of time and trouble.

Oh, and the universe is perfect?  News to me.

I believe is fossils. I never said I didn't! I want to see fosslis of the apes or other creatures that have "Changed" into another creature. Can you tell me this too, why are there still monkeys around?

Seriously?  The "why are there still monkeys question."?  Seriously?

Offline jetson

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2011, 10:35:02 PM »
I believe is fossils. I never said I didn't! I want to see fosslis of the apes or other creatures that have "Changed" into another creature. Can you tell me this too, why are there still monkeys around?

If we tell you, will you honestly listen?

 :o

Offline lbaker318

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2011, 10:40:41 PM »
Quote
Our apologies. All we have is information. You are apparently unaware of the concept, so we can't help you.
You can't give me any proof and not facts?

Offline lbaker318

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2011, 10:43:50 PM »
Quote
how could God be created from nothing?

Ever since Sin came into the world, the earth is not perfect. The earth will never be perfect. God uses people like me to go on mission trips and give these kids food and water and love. I have honestly helped more people than you can imagine. I never said society is perfect. I said the universe is perfect. We can breathe, have water, food, shelter. ect.!

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2011, 10:45:21 PM »
Quote
how could God be created from nothing?

Ever since Sin came into the world, the earth is not perfect. The earth will never be perfect. God uses people like me to go on mission trips and give these kids food and water and love. I have honestly helped more people than you can imagine. I never said society is perfect. I said the universe is perfect. We can breathe, have water, food, shelter. ect.!

Fixed the quote for you.  What does what you're saying have to do with the text you quoted?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2011, 10:47:47 PM »
I believe is fossils. I never said I didn't! I want to see fosslis of the apes or other creatures that have "Changed" into another creature. Can you tell me this too, why are there still monkeys around?

Why wouldn't there be?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline lbaker318

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2011, 10:50:49 PM »
Evolution can not be proven. Where are the missing links, those being fossils showing any living creature transforming from one to the next. Even one.  They don't exist. To me, it's is considerably easier to believe in God and that He created all of life than it is to believe in evolution. But we believe in faith, not because of science - however, contrary to what you teach, science has not disproved Gods existence. I invite your correction if I am wrong but doesn't the theory of evolution teach that all life came from a single cell organism? You can accept that but not God? If believers in the Holy bible are wrong then we lose nothing. We just die. But if the bible is true, and the saved burn in hell for eternity then I caution you to carefully consider what you are preaching. If you see a painting there must be a painter. See a building there must be a builder. See a creation there must be a creator. There was a beginning. If I am correct in my faith, then I prey "May God bless you and open you heart and eyes to the truth. Amen".

I am so with you all the way!

Offline lbaker318

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2011, 10:51:52 PM »
Quote
Why wouldn't there be?

Well if apes evolved to humans shouldn't that mean that there should be no apes around?

Offline lbaker318

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2011, 10:54:02 PM »
Quote
Fixed the quote for you.  What does what you're saying have to do with the text you quoted?

Sorry I had so much to say. Anyways God is God! That's it! God is not something or someone. God's always been there.

Offline lbaker318

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2011, 10:55:02 PM »
I believe is fossils. I never said I didn't! I want to see fosslis of the apes or other creatures that have "Changed" into another creature. Can you tell me this too, why are there still monkeys around?

If we tell you, will you honestly listen?

I'm listening

Online Aaron123

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2011, 10:57:19 PM »
Well if apes evolved to humans shouldn't that mean that there should be no apes around?

When was the last time you went to science class?  Did you ever read a book on evolution?  Did it actually say "humans came from apes"?  Was it from a christian apologetic?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2011, 11:03:59 PM »
I'm listening

If you are serious about it, I will go over this step by step with you while I watch every other atheist on this website poking fun at me for trying this with you.  I wouldn't blame them for thinking I'm a fool for trying, but the urge to try is winning out right now.  Tomorrow may be different, who knows?   

I'm not going to do it if you're going to start with the mindset that I couldn't possibly be right. Are you willing to set down your belief that evolution is false and adopt a neutral stance to the evidence we can present to you for consideration?  I'm not going to ask you to start with the belief that evolution is true.  I'm going to start by asking you to assume it is neither true or false, and that the best way to determine whether or not it's true is by looking at the facts. 

BTW, to everyone else, AP predicted the 'why are there still monkeys' line very early on in the conversation.  This could still be a POE.
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2011, 11:05:45 PM »
Quote
Why wouldn't there be?

Well if apes evolved to humans shouldn't that mean that there should be no apes around?

But, you understand that there are many many different types of apes correct? We are just one.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2011, 11:33:57 PM »
Quote
Why wouldn't there be?

Well if apes evolved to humans shouldn't that mean that there should be no apes around?

As JeffPT has said, there have been lots of different types of apes.

Consider:  Where do modern breeds of dogs come from?  Modern huskies evolved from ancient wolves.  So why are there still wolves?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 11:41:08 PM by Azdgari »
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2011, 11:39:39 PM »
Sorry I had so much to say. Anyways God is God! That's it! God is not something or someone. God's always been there.

You can understand the confusion, though, right?  After all, you said:

... Everything is made from something ...

There's an unfortunate consequence of what you've just stated, though.  Consider:

1. Everything is made from something.
2. God is not made from something.
3. (from 1 + 2) God is not a part of everything.

The only thing that is not a part of everything, is nothing.  So you have claimed that God is nothing.  You were the one who said that, not me.  You said it by way of the words you chose to write.  If you did not mean to claim that God is nothing, then why did your words require it?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2011, 11:58:59 PM »
As JeffPT has said, there have been lots of different types of apes.

I thought I said that  :o
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2011, 04:38:35 AM »
Quote
BTW, to everyone else, AP predicted the 'why are there still monkeys' line very early on in the conversation.  This could still be a POE.


It's clear as day to me.

Around here we know such ignorance and lack of education is possible, the knowledge makes us a much easier mark for POE. We are willing to entertain that someone really can be that low on the scale. Your average Joe wouldn't buy it for a second, thinking "you've got to be shitting me, no one is that stupid!" or words to that effect.


^ still valid, but, I am man enough to admit when I am wrong. She's the genuine article.


   
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 04:44:17 AM by Ambassador Pony »
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2011, 04:50:09 AM »
lbaker318, please let JeffPT know how old your are before he proceeds.

I understand that you wouldn't want anyone to talk down to you, just because you are younger, but I feel it is important for the adults here to know your age (at least ball-park). This is out of respect for you as a person.

It also might help JeffPT determine a starting point for helping you understand what he is going to try to explain to you.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 09:41:51 AM by Ambassador Pony »
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.