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Offline Cynic

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Evolution Explained
« on: May 07, 2009, 12:00:11 AM »
What is evolution?

“Evolution is change in the genetic material of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. “ – Wikipedia. The changes are small between generations however the amount of changes builds up over the course of several generations and can lead to substantial changes or the creation of a new species. Similarities between organisms (more on this later) have led the scientific community that all known species are descended from a common ancestor.

NOTE: EVOLUTION IS USED TO EXPLAIN THE DIVERSITY OF LIFE RATHER THAN THE ORIGINS OF LIFE (ABIOGENESIS )

NOTE 2: THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS A COMPLETELY SEPARATE THEORY TO THE BIG BANG THEORY (added by Petey)

Terms and definitions-
•   Common Ancestor-“A group of organisms is said to have common descent if they have a common ancestor. In modern biology, it is generally accepted that all living organisms on earth are descended from a common ancestor or ancestral gene pool.” – Wikipedia.
•   Species- A group of organisms which may reproduce and produce fertile viable offspring.
•   Organism- Anything which is alive.
•   Genome- The total genetic information within an organism.
•   Natural selection -the process where heritable traits that make it more likely for an organism to survive long enough to reproduce become more common over successive generations of a population.- Wikipedia
•   Phenotype- Any observable trait in an organism E.g. Male/female
•   Genotype- An organism’s genetic information for a trait. E.g. XY/XX
•   Mutations- Changes in the sequence of genetic material.
•   Recessive gene- a gene which is masked by a dominant gene, it is not weaker or worse
•   Dominant gene- a gene which masks a recessive gene, it is not stronger or better

How evolution works

How natural selection works

There is a misconception that evolution is random process, although mutation is random it is guided through the process of natural selection.  Within a species there is a certain extent of variation, these variations affect the chances of an organism from surviving long enough to reproduce. Say for example you have a group of locusts some of the locusts have a resistance to pesticides. Under normal conditions this locusts with resistance have no survival advantage however once the insects are exposed to the pesticides the resistant locusts have a selective advantage over the normal locusts and a greater proportion of the resistant locusts are able to reproduce than the locusts without the resistance. Eventually the resistant locusts make up the entirety of the population.

Nature of DNA+RNA
Before I go into mutations and how they affect the organism you need a basic understanding of DNA:
•   DNA is made up of 4 nucleotides Thymine (T), Adenine (A), Guanine (G), Cytosine (C)
•   DNA is coded in a series of triplets such as AAA TAG ACA
•   Each of these triplets codes for one amino acid (see graph below)
•   The nucleotide sequences for stop mean start a new protein.



Mutations

There are several types of mutations:
•   Deletion- The removal of one or more nucleotides
•   Insertion- The addition of one or more nucleotides
•   Substitutions- The replacement of a nucleotide for another
•   Translocation- swapping of the position of nucleotides
•   Frame shift Mutations- An insertion or deletion of nucleotides that is not divisible by three which disrupts the triplet sequence. This can cause major changes in the entire sequence. E.G :  
AGT  TGA  GAT GTC  CCG  GCA  ACG  CTG ATC
Ser   Stop Asp  Val   Pro   Ala    Thr   Leu  Ile
Now remove the first Adenine
           GTT   GAG  ATG  TCC  CGG  CAA  CGC TGA TC
           Val     Glu    Met   Ser  Gly    Gin   Arg  STOP X

There are also large scale chromosomal mutations:
•   Duplications- additional copy/copies of a chromosomal regions leading to an increased dosage of the genes.
•   Deletions of large chromosomal regions can lead to the removal  of genes
•   Translocations- swapping parts of a chromosomes with other chromosomes
•   Inversions- reversing the way the chromosome is orientated.

The effect of mutations:
•   Silent mutations- mutations which have no effect because the mutation changes the code to an alternative code for the same amino acid.
•   Lethal mutations- Mutations which kill the organism
•   Loss of function Mutations- Mutations which impair the function or stop the gene working entirely. This is often a recessive gene as a result.
•   Gain of function- change in the structure so that it gains new abnormal function. Usually a dominant mutation.
•   Back mutation- a mutation which undoes another mutation

Types of Mutations by inheritance-
•   Somatic mutations- Non Inheritable mutations
•   Germ line Mutation- mutations which may be passed on to the next generation.

Causes of Mutations
•   Spontaneous Mutations- mutations without a cause, usually a mistake in translation.
•   Induced mutation- mutations caused by a mutagenic agent such as radiation and certain chemical substances.

Evidence for evolution:
•   Comparative Genomics- The similarities in genomes suggest a common ancestor, for example humans share 94% of our genome with chimpanzees. It is not simply sharing dna; its sharing the same retroviruses, chromosomal fusions, and even molecular biological relationships that represent occurences or changes in dna itself.  Virtually all of which just happens to occur along the same dna chains amongst countless thousands of places it could have appeared. Each one of these findings in themselves represent INDIVIDUAL points of comparative data, they are separately arrived volumes of data that when compared with each other..overlap and match. Chromosomes, Dna, Retroviruses, Mitochondrial dna, molecular biology, fossil record ... all form a web of information that simply doesn't contradict itself. (Odin)

•   "The simplest and most powerful evidence is provided by phylogenetic reconstruction. Such reconstructions, especially when done using slowly-evolving protein sequences, are often quite robust and can be used to reconstruct a great deal of the evolutionary history of modern organisms.This evidence does not support the rival hypothesis that genetic similarity of two species is the product of common functional or structural requirements, and not common descent (for example, if there is one best way to produce a hoof, all hoofed creatures will share a genetic basis even if they are not related). However, phylogenetic relationships also extend to a wide variety of nonfunctional sequence elements, including repeats, transposons, pseudogenes, and mutations in protein-coding sequences that do not result in changes in amino-acid sequence. While a minority of these elements might later be found to harbor function, in aggregate they demonstrate that identity must be the product of common descent rather than common function." -Wikipedia.
•   The Fossil record- "It is possible to find out how a particular group of organisms evolved by arranging its fossil records in a chronological sequence. Such a sequence can be determined because fossils are mainly found in sedimentary rock. Sedimentary rock is formed by layers of silt or mud on top of each other; thus, the resulting rock contains a series of horizontal layers, or strata. Each layer contains fossils which are typical for a specific time period during which they were made. The lowest strata contain the oldest rock and the earliest fossils, while the highest strata contain the youngest rock and more recent fossils."- Wikipedia A great example of the fossil record is the horse which has an almost complete fossil record

•   Comparative anatomy- Similar bone structure can be used to show the divergent evolutionary paths

•   Vestigial organs and structures- Many species have a vestigial structures such as the human appendix and tail bone which indicate that a common ancestor made use of these structures
•   Antibiotic and pesticide resistance- This is evidence of natural selection taking place, and it is an undeniable fact. Currently bacteria are becoming more and more resistant to antibiotics such as penicillin. A perfect example of this is golden staph where there have been reported cases of golden staph which is resistant to even the most potent antibiotics.
•   Observed speciation- Speciation has been observed on a significant number of occasions which may be found here under section 5.1
•   Hybrids- Hybrids such as ligers and mules provides evidence of a common ancestor between two species.

Acceptance of evolution in the scientific community

In 2007 the Discovery Institute (the main "scientific body against evolution) claimed that 700 scientists had expressed support for intelligent design, although this may sound like a large number this actually means that roughly 99% of scientists support evolution. "And of the 700 'scientists' who have signed the Discovery Institute's letter, a vanishingly small number are biologists---most of them are physicists, engineers, computer scientists and the like. " Spetznatz

[youtube]Ty1Bo6GmPqM[/youtube]

"Additionally, the scientific community considers intelligent design, a neo-creationist offshoot, to be unscientific,[25] pseudoscience,or junk science.The U.S. National Academy of Sciences has stated that intelligent design "and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life" are not science because they cannot be tested by experiment, do not generate any predictions, and propose no new hypotheses of their own."- Wikipedia

If I have made any mistakes or anybody sees improvements could be made to this thread please post suggestions or PM me.

Bibliography:

Observed Instances of Speciation- sourced from www.talkorigins.org
Support for evolution wikipedia- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution#cite_note-61
Wikipedia evolution page- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
Simplified explanation of evolution wikipedia page- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_evolution
Jacaranda Biology 2008 Textbook- Nature of Biology by Judith Kinnear and Marjory Martin
Evidence of common decent wikipedia page- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent

Further Reading/ Viewing -
Donexodus2's series "How evolution works" * props to Cycle4Fun for finding these fantastic resources which do a far better job than this thread
University of Berkley's Evolution 101 *props to Cycle4Fun for finding these fantastic resources which do a far better job than this thread
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 04:52:44 AM by Moderator 11 »
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Offline Cynic

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 03:15:10 AM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FauGMaKTCRs[/youtube]
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At least two thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity, idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religious or political idols.
Aldous Huxley

Offline Cynic

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2009, 05:48:23 PM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ksdV9HPwBY[/youtube]

Don Exodus does an excellent 2 minute explanation of evolution
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At least two thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity, idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religious or political idols.
Aldous Huxley

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 07:16:26 PM »
The first post was lifted wholesale from here: http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-279059.0.html

Cynic,
(a) a link to nairaland.com would have been sufficient without the need to copy acres of text and pictures. Please do not do this again, I am sorely tempted to delete everything except the link.
(b) all major quotes should be accompanied by an attribution - otherwise it looks like plagiarism.
(c )if you want to show a youtube video, use [url]youtube addressl[x/url] (omit the x) One youtube vid per post is allowed

For the rest of you, if you want to see the whole set of pictures in the first post, use the horizontal slider at the bottom of the first post.
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline lbaker318

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 03:07:22 PM »
If evolution is real, I would like to see proof now and not just pictures. I would like to see fossils and other proof. Evolution has absolutely no proof. How could EVERYTHING in this universe be created from NOTHING! Nothing +Nothing= Nothing! It does not create a universe! I know God made this wonderful, perfect place because God is perfect! How else would everything be perfect because evolution was an accident. Accidents don't make anything perfect.

Offline albeto

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 03:12:58 PM »
Accidents don't make anything perfect.

Chocolate chips were made by accident.  Homemade chocolate chip cookies are pretty damned perfect if you as me. 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 03:26:06 PM by albeto »

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 03:33:49 PM »
If evolution is real, I would like to see proof now and not just pictures. I would like to see fossils and other proof. Evolution has absolutely no proof. How could EVERYTHING in this universe be created from NOTHING! Nothing +Nothing= Nothing! It does not create a universe! I know God made this wonderful, perfect place because God is perfect! How else would everything be perfect because evolution was an accident. Accidents don't make anything perfect.
Well, if you want to see fossils and other proof, might I suggest you go and actually look for them?  Right now, you're in the position of complaining about a lack of proof about something you haven't even researched to see what proof there is.

Evolution has nothing to do with something coming from nothing.  It has everything to do with how organisms develop over time.  Kindly make sure you at least understand what you're protesting against before you do so, it'll save you a lot of time and trouble.

Oh, and the universe is perfect?  News to me.
Worldviews:  Everyone has one, everyone believes them to be an accurate view of the world, and everyone ends up at least partially wrong.  However, some worldviews are stronger and well-supported, while others are so bizarre that they make no sense to anyone else.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 09:44:52 PM »
If evolution is real, I would like to see proof now and not just pictures. I would like to see fossils and other proof.

I have no idea what you meant by "now".  Was that, for instance, one second after you clicked the "Post" button?

I grew up in Cleveland.  At times I visited the Cleveland Museum of Natural History.  I saw dinosaur skeletons:

http://www.cmnh.org/site/AtTheMuseum/OnExhibit/Trex.aspx

http://www.cmnh.org/site/AtTheMuseum/OnExhibit/PermanentExhibits.aspx

Unless it is too great a violation of your requirement of "now" you could go to a museum and look at the fossils.

Is that what you meant?

Or didn't you really mean anything at all?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 09:46:31 PM by Historicity »

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 10:12:43 PM »
If evolution is real, I would like to see proof now and not just pictures. I would like to see fossils and other proof. Evolution has absolutely no proof. How could EVERYTHING in this universe be created from NOTHING! Nothing +Nothing= Nothing! It does not create a universe! I know God made this wonderful, perfect place because God is perfect! How else would everything be perfect because evolution was an accident. Accidents don't make anything perfect.

You're obviously faking. You need to up your game if you want to convince folk here that you are a creationist. No one is this ignorant. You layed it on too heavy. I am surprised you didn't include, "if we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?". It's the only thing missing from your overblown caricature. 
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 02:34:18 PM by Ambassador Pony »
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 10:24:40 PM »
If evolution is real, I would like to see proof now and not just pictures. I would like to see fossils and other proof. Evolution has absolutely no proof. How could EVERYTHING in this universe be created from NOTHING! Nothing +Nothing= Nothing! It does not create a universe! I know God made this wonderful, perfect place because God is perfect! How else would everything be perfect because evolution was an accident. Accidents don't make anything perfect.

Our apologies. All we have is information. You are apparently unaware of the concept, so we can't help you.
Never trust an atom. They make up everything!

Offline velkyn

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2011, 01:48:47 PM »
If evolution is real, I would like to see proof now and not just pictures. I would like to see fossils and other proof. Evolution has absolutely no proof. How could EVERYTHING in this universe be created from NOTHING! Nothing +Nothing= Nothing! It does not create a universe! I know God made this wonderful, perfect place because God is perfect! How else would everything be perfect because evolution was an accident. Accidents don't make anything perfect.
how could God be created from nothing?

Unfortunately, I think this one is this ignorant for real. 

and please do tell the child in this picture that the earth is a wonderful perfect place.  Unfortunately, we always have more pictures like this:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/08/02/world/africa/SOMALIA.html

"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Omen

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2011, 03:34:00 PM »
If evolution is real,

The entirety of biological sciences that explains how life evolved.

Quote
I would like to see proof now and not just pictures. I would like to see fossils and other proof. Evolution has absolutely no proof.

Ok.

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How could EVERYTHING in this universe be created from NOTHING!

Wait a minute, what does that have to do with evolution?

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How else would everything be perfect because evolution was an accident.

I have no idea what this 'evolution by accident' thing is.  I was under the impression you wanted to discuss biological evolution in the sciences.
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Offline Iamabeliever

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2011, 01:03:24 PM »
Evolution can not be proven. Where are the missing links, those being fossils showing any living creature transforming from one to the next. Even one.  They don't exist. To me, it's is considerably easier to believe in God and that He created all of life than it is to believe in evolution. But we believe in faith, not because of science - however, contrary to what you teach, science has not disproved Gods existence. I invite your correction if I am wrong but doesn't the theory of evolution teach that all life came from a single cell organism? You can accept that but not God? If believers in the Holy bible are wrong then we lose nothing. We just die. But if the bible is true, and the saved burn in hell for eternity then I caution you to carefully consider what you are preaching. If you see a painting there must be a painter. See a building there must be a builder. See a creation there must be a creator. There was a beginning. If I am correct in my faith, then I prey "May God bless you and open you heart and eyes to the truth. Amen".

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2011, 01:10:03 PM »
^^ Crude caricature of a creationist.  But, probably genuine.

Iamabeliever, I get the sense from your post that you are repeating what you have been told by others, perhaps authority figures in your personal life.  It is understandable to give credit to their opinions.  But, what have you done to verify whether all the things you're saying in that paragraph are true?

Have you even considered doing so?
Unless you are Scarlett Johansason or something.  lol  i'd like to punish her with  my baby.  lol

Offline Iamabeliever

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2011, 01:16:11 PM »
I have done my homework and have yet to find any information "proving" the theory of evolution to be true. Considering that this is part of my research, I invite you to prove it to me with indisputable evidence. I am not trying to be combative and I am open to all facts. Thank you for your reply.

Offline albeto

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2011, 01:18:28 PM »
I have done my homework and have yet to find any information "proving" the theory of evolution to be true. Considering that this is part of my research, I invite you to prove it to me with indisputable evidence. I am not trying to be combative and I am open to all facts. Thank you for your reply.

May I ask, from what sources are you conducting this research?

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2011, 01:29:59 PM »
Hatter23 hasn't been around for a little bit, so let me take a stab at this...

Evolution can not be proven. Where are the missing links, those being fossils showing any living creature transforming from one to the next. Even one.  They don't exist.

Argument from ignorance.

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To me, it's is considerably easier to believe in God and that He created all of life than it is to believe in evolution.

Argument from incredulity.

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But we believe in faith, not because of science - however, contrary to what you teach, science has not disproved Gods existence.

Strawman.

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I invite your correction if I am wrong but doesn't the theory of evolution teach that all life came from a single cell organism?

This would count as a strawman, except that you asked whether you are wrong -- bonus points for that.  (And by the way, no, that is not what the ToE says.)

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You can accept that but not God?

Argument from incredulity.

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If believers in the Holy bible are wrong then we lose nothing. We just die. But if the bible is true, and the saved burn in hell for eternity then I caution you to carefully consider what you are preaching.

Pascal's Wager.

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If you see a painting there must be a painter. See a building there must be a builder. See a creation there must be a creator.

Begging the question.

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There was a beginning.

Irrelevant.

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If I am correct in my faith, then I prey "May God bless you and open you heart and eyes to the truth. Amen".

Appeal to emotion.
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Offline Iamabeliever

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2011, 01:30:50 PM »
You can ask, but I could not point you to it without looking back - but regardless, the fact is I have not seen proof of evolution, only theory. Its seems that when I ask for proof everyone has it but noone can show me the evidence. May I kindly ask you where you found the proof?

Without that proof I have two choices (at least to me).

#1 There is God and He created all of life, trees, elephants, people, cows, bugs etc.

#2 Everything evolved from a single cell organism - trees, elephants, people, bugs etc.

Until I see proof of Evolution, I chose God. I find it so hard to understand why it's easier to believe the world just happened as opposed to God creating it.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2011, 01:32:48 PM »
If you see a painting there must be a painter. See a building there must be a builder. See a creation there must be a creator. There was a beginning. If I am correct in my faith, then I prey "May God bless you and open you heart and eyes to the truth. Amen".

Ray Comfort, is that you?

Next, you'll be telling us about that banana you like so much...
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Offline Iamabeliever

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2011, 01:36:01 PM »
Yes, it was a quote from Comfort. Not sure if that offended you but it should't. I heard it, it made sence and I shared it. Still seeking the evidence.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2011, 01:38:21 PM »
I have done my homework and have yet to find any information "proving" the theory of evolution to be true.

The problem with this is that others have also done their homework, and they have found evidence for evolution having occurred.  From this, there are several possibilities:

1. You are not using the same definition of the word "evolution" as others have used when claiming it to have occurred.
2. They are mistaken or lying about what they have discovered.
3. You have not done enough 'homework' in the right areas.

Which option do you think is the case, and why?  Or, pick another option that fits the facts, if you can think of one.

(As an aside, "proof for" propositions is impossible outside of mathematics and abstract logic; science operates on evidence for propositions and proof against them)

Considering that this is part of my research, I invite you to prove it to me with indisputable evidence. I am not trying to be combative and I am open to all facts. Thank you for your reply.

You're welcome.  There are a few first-steps before your reply can be met.  The first of which is, what is it exactly that you are asking for indisputable evidence of?  "Evolution" is rather vague.  The word is, at its most bare-bones meaning, a synonym for "change".  Obviously "change" happens; that's not really what you're asking about, though, is it?  So it would be helpful if you articulated just what you'd like to see the evidence of, so that meaningful communication can take place.
Unless you are Scarlett Johansason or something.  lol  i'd like to punish her with  my baby.  lol

Offline wright

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2011, 01:40:55 PM »
Welcome to the forums, Iamabeliever.

Where to start... evolution has been proven. It is accepted as the best explanation of how living organisms got to their present state because the facts bear it out. Your personal incredulity is irrelevant, and your ignorance is easily corrected-- if you really want to do so.

Here's a couple of sites to get you started...
http://transitionalfossils.com/
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/outline.html

As to science disproving god, I really doubt anyone on this site has said that. If they did, they were wrong. It's not up to science to disprove deities. Rather, it is for believers in a particular deity to prove its existence. You're the one saying your god exists. Prove it, using the scientific method.

If believers in the Holy bible are wrong then we lose nothing. We just die. But if the bible is true, and the saved burn in hell for eternity then I caution you to carefully consider what you are preaching.

Pascal's Wager is not a persuasive argument here. How do you know your god is the right one? What if the Hindu myths are real, or the Hopi, or the Hellenistic deities? Then you're just as screwed as an atheist.

And the only one I see preaching here is you. That's against forum rules, and far more likely to irritate the regulars here than convert us.

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There was a beginning.

Depends on what you mean as a beginning. The best information we have right now shows a very rapid expansion of space / time some billions of years ago. Was it the first? The only? We don't know... yet. But there is no evidence, so far, that justifies saying a god was responsible.

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If I am correct in my faith, then I prey "May God bless you and open you heart and eyes to the truth. Amen".

Bolds mine. Big if there. Again, preaching is not the way to reach folks here, as well as being forbidden.

Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline albeto

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2011, 01:41:46 PM »
You can ask, but I could not point you to it without looking back

I'm sorry, I don't know what this means.  Do you get your information from Answers in Genesis or another Christian source?  From a non Christian source?  Where did you learn about evolution? 

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- but regardless, the fact is I have not seen proof of evolution, only theory. Its seems that when I ask for proof everyone has it but noone can show me the evidence. May I kindly ask you where you found the proof?

Perhaps you're misunderstanding what a scientific theory means.  It does not mean a theory in the vernacular sense, like if I have a theory that my dog will start barking when the mailman comes.  A scientific theory explains a natural observation and as such an explanation, the facts supporting evolution have been some 150 years in the making and the theory is further understood in increasing detail.  I suggest this site as an introduction to the mechanics of evolution. 

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Without that proof I have two choices (at least to me).

I'm not convinced you will look at the evidence objectively, but okay...

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#1 There is God and He created all of life, trees, elephants, people, cows, bugs etc.

Considering there is zero evidence to support this, it's as likely as the Flying Spaghetti Monster hypothesis. The only difference is your hypothesis is really common so it's quite easy to find like minded people.

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#2 Everything evolved from a single cell organism - trees, elephants, people, bugs etc.

You misrepresent the mechanics of evolution which leads me to believe you do not understand it.  That's why I asked from where you've learned this.  It would help to focus the attention on pertinent misconceptions and misunderstandings.

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Until I see proof of Evolution, I chose God. I find it so hard to understand why it's easier to believe the world just happened as opposed to God creating it.

I don't think it's so hard at all. I think believing a story that presents a simple visual image (Adam, Eve, serpent, fruit) is far more easy to comprehend than hundreds of thousands of scientific reports. 

Offline Omen

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2011, 01:43:24 PM »
We can't have a discussion about evolution if what you characterize evolution as being doesn't reflect actual science.

Why would you expect us to do otherwise?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline Iamabeliever

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2011, 01:48:24 PM »
Respectfully, you seem intelligent and I am certain that you know what I meant when I asked for proof. I don't guess I will that here. You appear to be avoiding the question. No problem. At the end of it all, who's right about evolution really is all that important. Being correct about God is. Thank you all for your comments.

PS - God created to moon.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2011, 01:51:06 PM »
Yes, it was a quote from Comfort. Not sure if that offended you but it should't.

Not offended, but Comfort doesn't come off as particularly intellence.


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I heard it, it made sence and I shared it.

Sense.

The quote from Comfort begs the question.  If everything was created by a being, what created the creator?


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Still seeking the evidence.

Funny you should say that.  I have yet to see evidence for you god, or any other gods.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline wright

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2011, 01:53:18 PM »
Respectfully, you seem intelligent and I am certain that you know what I meant when I asked for proof. I don't guess I will that here. You appear to be avoiding the question. No problem. At the end of it all, who's right about evolution really is all that important. Being correct about God is. Thank you all for your comments.

PS - God created to moon.

Translation: "I actually got called on my ignorance! These people actually expect me to back up my baseless claims! Runaway, runaway, runaway!!!"

Or, prove me wrong. Grow a spine, some thick skin and stick around. You, and possibly some of us, may actually learn something from each other. Up to you.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Iamabeliever

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2011, 01:57:34 PM »
Had you asked in different manner I may have continued the discussion. Clearly, you are getting combative. Respectfully, while we all stand behind what we believe in, being confrontational ends all discussions. Again, thank you for your input and yes, I do intend to examine the links provided. Regards.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Evolution Explained
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2011, 01:57:49 PM »
Respectfully, you seem intelligent and I am certain that you know what I meant when I asked for proof.

Yes, I know what you meant by "proof" - you meant "evidence".  I acknowledged as much in my post.

What I don't know is what exactly you want proof of.  Lots of people have pretty warped ideas about what "evolution" supposedly means.  If you mean X by it, and I mean Y by it, and I offer proof of Y, then you won't be convinced, will you?  Nor should you be.

I am trying to have an honest, genuine exchange of ideas.

I don't guess I will that here. You appear to be avoiding the question. No problem.

I am not.  So far, your question is meaningless to me.  What do you mean by "evolution"?  Even within accepted science, the word can mean many different things, depending on context.  You have so far offered none.

At the end of it all, who's right about evolution really is all that important. Being correct about God is.

Why did your first post on this forum focus on "evolution" if it wasn't important to you?

Thank you all for your comments.

This is very clearly not a genuine thank-you.  Not a big deal, that; I wasn't expecting a thank-you.

PS - God created to moon.

Through what process?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 01:59:49 PM by Azdgari »
Unless you are Scarlett Johansason or something.  lol  i'd like to punish her with  my baby.  lol