Author Topic: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)  (Read 6293 times)

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Offline blue_spiral

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The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« on: April 17, 2009, 10:02:31 PM »

When I was 18 I officially told my parents I was bisexual. I had known it for years before and finally felt it was the right time to tell them. They put it out of mind for a long time and I kept my personal life separate until very recently.

My mother joined my facebook page where I was a member of a GLBT group. She still acted in denial when questioning me about it but then later admitted she knew what it meant.

Just tonight I was on the phone with my mother and mentioned a relationship I had that she wasn't aware of and she immediately knew it was a homosexual one. As the conversation continued she told me that me being in a homosexual relationship was as heartbreaking as the other sins I'd committed and no worse. I had assumed it would be more devastating than the others and so had kept it from her.

She said that me having sex before marriage with a man, drinking alcohol (which is a sin in mormonism) and doing drugs was on the exact same level as homosexuality.

As non-mormon Christians, do you find homosexuality to be a greater sin than others?

In the same way that murder is a greater sin than lying?

On what level is the sin of homosexuality?

(Please don't tell me by default that mormonism isn't Christian. You guys have said this to me when I didn't even claim mormonism was Christian, so PLEASE LAY OFF. Just answer the question!)





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Offline Nick

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2009, 10:19:44 PM »
I think it depends of the denomination.  In the Catholic church mortal sins are much worse than others.  Killing, homosexual acts, and eating meat on Fridays are all mortal sins...also, missing mass on Sundays.  It depends on how much they want to control you to the degree the sin is bad.  I would not worry about it.  Sin, like gods, does not exist.
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Offline blue_spiral

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2009, 10:29:22 PM »

Quote
It depends on how much they want to control you to the degree the sin is bad.  I would not worry about it.  Sin, like gods, does not exist.

Oh no, I am not WORRYING about it lol. I was just wondering how the Christians around here felt. I know sin exists as much as biblegod. :)

But yeah, it depends how and how much they want to control you. For sure. I wonder how many other Mormons feel the same as my mother... But since there are no other Mormons here I would like to know the stances of T and Val. Perhaps the Philosopher and any others that come around here.

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Offline bikerbabe

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2009, 10:38:36 PM »
I cannot speak for some so called "True Christians" (whatever that means) ( I am still between a rock and a hard place on some of my beliefs) because I know they will agree with what the Bible states.
For me I do not view it as a sin.
I feel those that are homosexual are born that way and don't have the choice in how they feel.
Some will disagree with me on that as well. So be it!
But if it is true that some are born with these tendancies than how can it be viewed as a sin?
If you are born with that trait than where have you commited the sin?

Offline Erasmus

Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2009, 10:45:30 PM »
"It depends" is the right answer. It depends on the denomination you belong to. It depends on where in the bible you are reading. It depends on whether or not you read the bible. It depends how well you can "translate" and rationalize absurdities. It depends on which of many contradictory verses you want to base it on. It depends on whether or not you think the bible needs to be taken in the context of its time. It depends on whether or not God has given you a personal revelation that lets you ignore certain bits in order to work for the greater good (looking at you, Eric Rudolph). It depends on whether or not you think you can just ask for forgiveness later.

So much for an absolute moral position, right?

It is a fascinating concept though, and it is one way in which "honest" Christians set themselves up for abuse. In the churches that I went to it was almost as if the worse the sins a person had committed and repented of (and by sin I mean crime, and serious ones), the better Christian they were. The more freely they confessed their really odious past to us, the more grateful the church seemed to be to have their testimony and their company. Now I do think that a lot of them simply made their sins up to gain credibility, but I assume some of them really did what they say they did. The pragmatic side of this is that the church gives a high status to people who have committed serious crimes, and this really shows, both statistically and anecdotally. The second highest indicator of child molestation in a family, after substance abuse, is traditional or fundamental religiosity. It really fascinates me how Christianity can simultaneously guilt trip some people into feeling like scum because they read Playboy, while giving acceptance and trust to a child molester. Simply telling people that you did something bad doesn't make you a better person.

The general position in the churches that I went to was that all sins were equal in that they equally separated you from Christ, and thus every sin damned you to hell in an equal manner.

A Methodist pastor told me when I was little that the worst sin was this:
Quote
Mark 3:29 - But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.

Code: [Select]
blas·phe·my
n. pl. blas·phe·mies
1.
   a. A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
   b. The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.
2. An irreverent or impious act, attitude, or utterance in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct.

Therefore, I deny the Holy Spirit, I am the Holy Spirit and take on all the aspects of Holy Spiritness, and the Holy Spirit is a poo poo head.

Now I'm both smelly and bound for hell. Dearie me.
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Offline bikerbabe

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2009, 10:45:49 PM »
And btw the worst sins to commit... for me, murder and hatred and rape and child abuse and probably some I'm not thinking of at the moment, suppose the list could go on and on.

Offline blue_spiral

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2009, 10:48:53 PM »
Quote
But if it is true that some are born with these tendancies than how can it be viewed as a sin?
If you are born with that trait than where have you commited the sin?


That is the point of my signature. We are ALL born with the needs to orgasm (specifically) and enjoy our lives on earth (generally).

When I was a child I assumed that you wanted sex once you were married. I assumed that once you were married that was when those feelings came on because God knew it was time for you to make babies.

So, why would God make you horny at 12 years old if our culture doesn't believe in marriage that young?

 
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Offline bahramthered

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2009, 11:23:15 PM »
Wanna talk screwed up? More of your brain is designed for sex than hunger or breathing.

What kinda creator designs his subjects like that and hates sex so much?



But to the OP I've heard several fractions all say that suicide is the worst sin and the only that can't be forgiven.

Offline bikerbabe

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2009, 11:28:01 PM »
Wanna talk screwed up? More of your brain is designed for sex than hunger or breathing.

What kinda creator designs his subjects like that and hates sex so much?



But to the OP I've heard several fractions all say that suicide is the worst sin and the only that can't be forgiven.
I don't believe that God hates sex it is a natural thing, that He supposedly instilled in each of us. Why would God hate what He put there Himself?

Offline blue_spiral

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2009, 12:06:10 AM »

Quote

But to the OP I've heard several fractions all say that suicide is the worst sin and the only that can't be forgiven.

I didn't say I thought it was the WORST sin. I understood as a Mormon that the WORST sin was denying the holy spirit. Murder and suicide were second in line.


Quote
I don't believe that God hates sex it is a natural thing, that He supposedly instilled in each of us. Why would God hate what He put there Himself?

When I was a young Mormon I had an epiphany one day that I believed was put in my mind by God. "Sex is nothing but a temptation and only the MOST valiant can overcome it. Otherwise its sole purpose is for creating life."

That is the only way to justify god putting it in us. Ultimately it seems kind of cruel if that is his reasoning for making it the number one need we have, doesn't it?




"i dont delete them becAUSE IT PROVES ME WRONG I DELETE THEM BECAUSE IT MAKES U LOOK LIKE AN DIOT AND? IM TRYING TO HELP YOU,THE ONLY THING U PROVED IS THAT UR GOING TO HELL " - A Christian on youtube who kept deleting my comments during a debate.

Offline bikerbabe

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2009, 12:10:24 AM »

Quote

But to the OP I've heard several fractions all say that suicide is the worst sin and the only that can't be forgiven.

I didn't say I thought it was the WORST sin. I understood as a Mormon that the WORST sin was denying the holy spirit. Murder and suicide were second in line.


Quote
I don't believe that God hates sex it is a natural thing, that He supposedly instilled in each of us. Why would God hate what He put there Himself?

When I was a young Mormon I had an epiphany one day that I believed was put in my mind by God. "Sex is nothing but a temptation and only the MOST valiant can overcome it. Otherwise its sole purpose is for creating life."

That is the only way to justify god putting it in us. Ultimately it seems kind of cruel if that is his reasoning for making it the number one need we have, doesn't it?





So that would mean that even as a married person you could only have sex with your mate if your intentions are to have a child? Find that logic very baffling and do not believe it at all.

Offline blue_spiral

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2009, 12:16:41 AM »


Quote
So that would mean that even as a married person you could only have sex with your mate if your intentions are to have a child? Find that logic very baffling and do not believe it at all.

Well, yeah. A lot of fundamentalists feel that way. That's the idea behind finding masturbation or sodomy or bestiality a sin. You are wasting your seed which denies those potential people life by not ejaculating into a female human.

And I have to say that no, Mormons don't generally feel that way, but as an 11 year old just discovering the joys and horrific guilt of masturbation that was the best I could do at reasoning out my guilt.

"i dont delete them becAUSE IT PROVES ME WRONG I DELETE THEM BECAUSE IT MAKES U LOOK LIKE AN DIOT AND? IM TRYING TO HELP YOU,THE ONLY THING U PROVED IS THAT UR GOING TO HELL " - A Christian on youtube who kept deleting my comments during a debate.

Offline bikerbabe

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2009, 12:28:01 AM »
You have nothing to feel guilty about!!

Offline blue_spiral

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2009, 01:19:09 AM »

Um, at the age of 11 I felt tremendous guilt. Today you might be happy to know that I have sex outside of marriage with males and females alike, and I also masturbate when I feel like!

LOL.

Don't worry. I am scarred by the feelings of guilt etc. etc etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. I had back then but today I am happy and healthy as I think most people are, give or take a few things

:)
"i dont delete them becAUSE IT PROVES ME WRONG I DELETE THEM BECAUSE IT MAKES U LOOK LIKE AN DIOT AND? IM TRYING TO HELP YOU,THE ONLY THING U PROVED IS THAT UR GOING TO HELL " - A Christian on youtube who kept deleting my comments during a debate.

Offline Erasmus

Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2009, 01:24:20 AM »
Male (and possibly female) atheists are probably unanimous in their approval of this discussion. The theists will just have to wallow in their self-imposed sexual awkwardness.
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Offline bikerbabe

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2009, 01:27:10 AM »

Um, at the age of 11 I felt tremendous guilt. Today you might be happy to know that I have sex outside of marriage with males and females alike, and I also masturbate when I feel like!

LOL.

Don't worry. I am scarred by the feelings of guilt etc. etc etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. I had back then but today I am happy and healthy as I think most people are, give or take a few things

:)
At the age 11 it was perfectly normal, but glad you are happy now. Heal them scars it was normal. My 21 yr. old started about that time as far as I know, I just ignored it and waited for Him to ask questions and never tried to make it something he would feel guilty about. Only answered the normal questions he asked on sex as he got older and of course had the birds and the bees talk with him in some form probably when he was a little younger than 11 when the questions first started surfacing.
As far as your sex outside of marriage my opinion is thats between you and your wife. Although you didn't ask my opinion.

Offline alihaymeg

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2009, 01:45:29 AM »
I made the mistake of entering into a conversation about homosexuality in a classroom setting at my private Church of Christ operated college. The conversation started over a gay couple who were trying to adopt a child through a local adoption center. Most of the class (which was comprised mostly of Bible majors) agreed that this couple should not be allowed to adopt a child. I strongly disagreed and asked them if it would be better for a heterosexual couple who constantly sleep around on each other to be allowed to adopt than a monogamous homosexual couple. Many of them struggled with the question but most came down on the side of the heterosexual couple. I then brought up the statistic that shows that children raised by homosexual adults are no more likely to become homosexual than those raised by heterosexual couples. I was lambasted of course. They could not accept this.

Most of the Christians I know believe that all sin is equal. They will quote scripture that supports this but they can't seem to overcome their biases in order to be honest about it.

Most have little or no social contact with a homosexual person.
Most are afraid to take a stand that is contradictory to the popular notion among their peer group.
Many are simply homophobic.

Offline superfly

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2009, 07:42:24 AM »
when i was a Xtian, i found that f*cking the Pastors wife was a big no-no. gets you thrown out of the congregation FAST.
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Offline tbright

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2009, 08:22:39 AM »
As non-mormon Christians, do you find homosexuality to be a greater sin than others?

In the same way that murder is a greater sin than lying?

On what level is the sin of homosexuality?

It's not up to me as a Christian to "judge" sin in a sense of the degree. Homosexuality is a sin, but so is any sexual activity outside of marriage, including fornication, adultery, etc. It's all sexual sin. God may judge one harsher than the other, but that degree isn't revealed in the Bible.

Hope that helps.

Offline snkiesch

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2009, 09:42:14 AM »
I think it depends of the denomination.  In the Catholic church mortal sins are much worse than others.  Killing, homosexual acts, and eating meat on Fridays are all mortal sins...also, missing mass on Sundays.  It depends on how much they want to control you to the degree the sin is bad.  I would not worry about it.  Sin, like gods, does not exist.

Do you rememner the A and B ratings for movies? A movies all could go to,  B movies were a mortal sin to see. The nun told us there had only been one B movie up to that time. "Gone with the Wind" because of that infamous line "Frankly my dear I don't give a damn".
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Offline snkiesch

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2009, 09:51:23 AM »
If you are born with that trait than where have you commited the sin?


The nuns told my brother writing with your left hand was a sin, They would rap his knuckles for doing his catachism assignment left-handed. His 1st grade teacher in public school tried getting him to write right-handed. This was back in the days of prayer in public schools.
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Offline Max Kodan

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2009, 10:35:46 AM »
As non-mormon Christians, do you find homosexuality to be a greater sin than others?

In the same way that murder is a greater sin than lying?

On what level is the sin of homosexuality?

It's not up to me as a Christian to "judge" sin in a sense of the degree. Homosexuality is a sin, but so is any sexual activity outside of marriage, including fornication, adultery, etc. It's all sexual sin. God may judge one harsher than the other, but that degree isn't revealed in the Bible.

Hope that helps.

Homosexuality is mentioned in passing as a sin.  Lots of stuff is mentioned as a sin, but modern Christians just ignore 90% of them.  The general consensus seems to be that so long as you follow the 10 commandments and aren't gay, then there's really no big offense.  I'm talking Christians at large, by the way.  I know that not all hold those views.
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Offline bikerbabe

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2009, 10:41:18 AM »
If you are born with that trait than where have you commited the sin?


The nuns told my brother writing with your left hand was a sin, They would rap his knuckles for doing his catachism assignment left-handed. His 1st grade teacher in public school tried getting him to write right-handed. This was back in the days of prayer in public schools.
This I find to be just totally ridiculous. Man, what some people think..

Offline Nick

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2009, 11:24:49 AM »
If you are born with that trait than where have you commited the sin?


The nuns told my brother writing with your left hand was a sin, They would rap his knuckles for doing his catachism assignment left-handed. His 1st grade teacher in public school tried getting him to write right-handed. This was back in the days of prayer in public schools.
This I find to be just totally ridiculous. Man, what some people think..
I don't know.  I think I heard once that the devil was left handed.
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Offline Crocoduck

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2009, 11:53:26 AM »
the left handed thing is true, and it is just another example of biblical interpretation gone wrong. it stems from jesus (and everything else supposedly good) being at the "right hand" of god.

matt 25 says-
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: And he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, 'Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.' ... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.'"

so it was thought that the way to spot a devil worshiper was to see if they were right or left handed.
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Offline tbright

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2009, 10:16:45 PM »
so it was thought that the way to spot a devil worshiper was to see if they were right or left handed.

Interesting.... hadn't heard that before.

Offline bikerbabe

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2009, 10:58:55 PM »
If you are born with that trait than where have you commited the sin?


The nuns told my brother writing with your left hand was a sin, They would rap his knuckles for doing his catachism assignment left-handed. His 1st grade teacher in public school tried getting him to write right-handed. This was back in the days of prayer in public schools.
This I find to be just totally ridiculous. Man, what some people think..
I don't know.  I think I heard once that the devil was left handed.
I've read the Bible a few times don't recall ever seeing this. Is he cross eyed to or just that big 666 in the middle of his forehead to give us some clue as to who he is?
Know a few left handed people if they worship the devil they are hiding it very well.

Offline Confused.com

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2009, 07:48:44 AM »
If you are born with that trait than where have you commited the sin?


The nuns told my brother writing with your left hand was a sin, They would rap his knuckles for doing his catachism assignment left-handed. His 1st grade teacher in public school tried getting him to write right-handed. This was back in the days of prayer in public schools.
This I find to be just totally ridiculous. Man, what some people think..
I don't know.  I think I heard once that the devil was left handed.
I heard this also from my mother. She's left handed and they forced her to write with her right hand in school. She writes with either hand these days.

Fortunately they don't impose the right handed rule in Britain's schools any longer.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 10:58:16 AM by Confused.com »

Offline Odin

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Re: The worst sin to commit (mainly for Christians)
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2009, 08:16:30 AM »
As non-mormon Christians, do you find homosexuality to be a greater sin than others?

As a former Christian, I believe being Mormon is a greater sin than premarital sex, drinking or homosexual/bisexual experiences.  Imagine living a life where you have to believe the inane mythology about Joseph Smith finding gold plates with a "new" testament of Jesus.

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