Author Topic: Religion [#1158]  (Read 1521 times)

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Offline Helper52

Re: Religion [#1158]
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2009, 09:49:33 PM »
Question 1: Well, first off God has a reason for them being an amputee whether it be to bring them closer to the family or make him realize all of the things that he was missing.

Then why have prayer if your deity's will will be done in the first place?  Why add passages in the Bible that say prayer of any kind is effective at all -- if you are right and that is not true?

Because humans are not perfect and so god's will is already done but we still want that ipod or raise or etc. So he likes to reward us every now and then. Also, prayer is not just to ask for something. I try to pray for others who need help (like you) and put myself last. I pray for mercy and forgiveness also. So you see prayer is not really intended to ask for that ipod or raise, it's to ask for mercy, ask for help, ask for the others to get well.

Consider the following;

Quote
You can see that the amputee experiment reframes our conversation. No longer are we talking about "religion" or "faith" or "God's existence". What we are talking about here is the basic human ability to process factual information. Jesus makes a number of promises about prayer in the Bible:

    * If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. [Matthew 21:21]

    * If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. [John 14:14]

    * Ask, and it will be given you. [Matthew 7:7]

    * Nothing will be impossible to you. [Matthew 17:20]

    * Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. [Mark 11:24]


Are Jesus' promises true or false? By looking at amputees we can see that they are false. Jesus/God never answer prayers to spontaneously restore lost limbs, despite the promises in the Bible.


More: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/rationalizations.htm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o[/youtube]

You can check the passages in a few dozen translations of the Bible for yourself to see that none of this is taken out of context;


http://biblegateway.com

So ask for not something that is selfish, but something good for others or forgiveness and it WILL be answered. And not something silly like appear next to me where I can see you even though I already believe you are here with me.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Religion [#1158]
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2009, 11:08:56 PM »
Because humans are not perfect and so god's will is already done but we still want that ipod or raise or etc. So he likes to reward us every now and then. Also, prayer is not just to ask for something. I try to pray for others who need help (like you) and put myself last. I pray for mercy and forgiveness also. So you see prayer is not really intended to ask for that ipod or raise, it's to ask for mercy, ask for help, ask for the others to get well.

The passages are in context and clear.

They can't be right as they don't match reality as it is.  That's why you have to offer an alternative explanation.  Either the book is wrong, or reality itself is.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Hermes

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Re: Religion [#1158]
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2009, 11:21:54 PM »
So ask for not something that is selfish, but something good for others or forgiveness and it WILL be answered. And not something silly like appear next to me where I can see you even though I already believe you are here with me.

It comes back to reality vs. the book.  Is there no incidence ever where an amputee ever was prayed for?  Cancer sufferers seem to get prayers answered -- or so they or their loved ones assert -- so why not something unambiguous like an amputee?  Do only amphibians get those prayers answered?

Like the passage I quoted says; Are Jesus' promises true or false? By looking at amputees we can see that they are false.  Making excuses for an entity that is supposedly capable and willing and promised to answer prayers, yet can not deliver on a self-less and earnest plea seems strange.  If I were capable of making someone whole again at no cost to me, I would do it.  Does that make me more moral than your deity or just more tangible?

For what it's worth;

German Doing Well After Double Arm Transplant
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GATCiaeuK0E[/youtube]

Regeneration of cells (like an amphibian)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxhi4Q8EDTU[/youtube]
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Helper52

Re: Religion [#1158]
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2009, 05:00:34 PM »
... I have a question for you though, do you believe in ghosts??
which ghost?
Any.

Ghosts in the normal context refer to disembodied spirits.  That is; the spirit existed in a body at one time but no longer does.

Do you include in your definition of ghosts any entities that did not exist in a body previously?

I'm am not quite sure actually. No, I don't think I did

Offline Hermes

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Re: Religion [#1158]
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2009, 08:54:57 PM »
... I have a question for you though, do you believe in ghosts??
which ghost?
Any.

Ghosts in the normal context refer to disembodied spirits.  That is; the spirit existed in a body at one time but no longer does.

Do you include in your definition of ghosts any entities that did not exist in a body previously?

I'm am not quite sure actually. No, I don't think I did

Did you have a response for None, or were you just curious about None's answer? ;

I would appreciate a real ghost if there was one.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer