Author Topic: NT & Jesus' Family Values  (Read 2023 times)

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Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: NT & Jesus' Family Values
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2009, 02:06:54 PM »
Crocoduck,

Good follow-up support for the op, thanks!
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Offline Airyaman

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Re: NT & Jesus' Family Values
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2009, 02:24:25 PM »
Notice that Tbright did a whole lot of ranting and raving, yet never addressed a single point in the OP?

What else does a guy like him have but to rant and rave and never answer a question posed to him that even he knows he can't answer?

Guys, are you blind or just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative?

I've stated I'm not wasting my time in this thread. It doesn't warrant any attention.

I addressed ONE POINT to make my point, so your character assassination above is completely unfounded and UNTRUE! See my post HERE.

And I pointed out that you plagiarized that.
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Offline Count Iblis

Re: NT & Jesus' Family Values
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2009, 02:44:10 PM »
19.   Jesus tells polygamy parable without censure when he compares the kingdom of heaven to ten virgins who went to meet their bridegroom. 25:1  10 wives for 1 man is not a modern Christian family value.

Putting aside the question of whether this is about polygamy, I can't understand this parable at all. First Jesus says the Kingdom of Heaven is like 10 virgins and then wastes no time forgetting that he was drawing a parallel between the Kingdom of Heaven and the 10 virgins. Instead, half of the virgins get shut out of the Kingdom of Heaven. The virgins apparently represent the Jews. But what the heck is the oil representative of? Good works? If so, then Paul seems to get the whole thing wrong because he preaches about salvation through grace and that good works can't get you salvation. Further, if it is good works, then what's the message? You'll get shut out of Heaven if you're busy doing good works when Jesus returns. So that doesn't make any sense at all. Or maybe the oil is faith. But how does one go and  buy faith from those who sell it?

It's no wonder why Luke and John didn't include this story in their gospels.
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Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: NT & Jesus' Family Values
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2009, 07:47:25 PM »
I seriously doubt you'll get an answer from any of the holy-rollers here because they don't know themselves either.
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Offline Crocoduck

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Re: NT & Jesus' Family Values
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2009, 05:48:27 AM »
if im not mistaken its supposed to mean you should have you ducks in a row at all times because jesus could return at any time, so be prepared (if you believe in that sort of thing).
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Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: NT & Jesus' Family Values
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2009, 11:28:09 AM »
but what does the "oil" signify?
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Offline ThePhilosopher

Re: NT & Jesus' Family Values
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2009, 12:31:39 PM »
NT & Jesus' Family Values

Contrary to current popular Christian belief, the NT and Jesus are/were not supporters of family values.  Where do Christians get their exalted view of the "Christian" family?  The NT contains numerous acts of anti-family values.  Within the NT, Jesus treats his mother and siblings with such disrespect and a total lack of affection that it should be deemed immoral.  We can also assume that he never married or had any children, (thank goodness!)  Jesus instructs those who wish to be his followers to abandon and hate their own families. 

The attitude of Jesus toward women in general is ambiguous in the extreme.  At times, he seems to regard them as they exist under the Mosaic Law.  Jesus upholds the law.  Sexism on his part cannot be condoned.  He supposedly came to earth as the moral example for all time to come.  Although mistreatment of women might have been the custom of the day, Jesus' behavior standards should surely have been timeless and they were anything but.

In Matthew alone, there are nineteen instances of anti-family values.  (redacted from the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, Woes to the Women the Bible Tells Me So by Annie Laurie Gaylor, and The Born Again Skeptic's Guide to the Bible by Ruth Hurmence Green)

In Matthew:

1.   The Holy Ghost knocks up a young woman, Mary. 1:18

2.   Jesus called out to two fishermen to be his disciples and they actually left their father mending the fishing nets without even a 'good-bye'.  4:21,22

3.   Jesus came to uphold the OT law, not reform it. 5:17-18. So Jesus supports all the anti-family and misogynistic laws in the OT.

4.   Mutilate yourself if you "lust in your heart."  5:28-29.  So if you lust after any woman you must pluck out your eyes so you won't go to hell.  Another misogynistic passage making women (wife, sister, daughter, mother, etc. look bad to men).

5.   Divorce double standard 5:32.  You can divorce your wife but you can't marry a divorced women.

6.   Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

7.   Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

8.   Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.  And a man's foes shall be they of his own household" 10:34-36

9.   Jesus warns us not to love our parents or children too much. We have to make sure that we always love him (who we don't even know existed) more than our family. 10:37

10.   Jesus was very uncivil when his mother and his brothers waited at the edge of a crowd to speak to him, posing a question to his disciples: 'Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?"  and indicating that the disciples were now his family.  Then he added that all who do the will of God, "the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." 12:47-49

11.   Jesus and his followers are criticized by the Pharisees and scribes for not washing their hands before eating. Instead of addressing their concern, Jesus goes on the attack, "And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?  For God said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and , 'Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.'"  (Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) He then calls them names, "You hypocrites!"  He attacks them for not killing disobedient children when all they quizzed him on was their dirty hands when they eat. 15:4-7

12.   Gentile woman and daughter called "dogs" by Jesus. 15:22-26.  Again, Jesus, the women hater.

13.   In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much. 18:25

14.   "One flesh" marriage, implying no divorce allowed. 19:6

15.   Eunuchs be praised!  If you can be one then go for it!  This is a sure guarantee of no-fatherhood. 19:12

16.   "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters of father or mother or children or fields, for my name's sake, will receive a hundred fold and will inherit eternal life."  Moral here is abandon your family and your children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 19:29

17.   Jesus tells us to "call no man your father upon the earth." Not even dear old dad? How can we "honor our father" if we refuse to call him our father? 23:9

18.   "Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days." Why? Does God especially hate pregnant and nursing women? 24:19

19.   Jesus tells polygamy parable without censure when he compares the kingdom of heaven to ten virgins who went to meet their bridegroom. 25:1  10 wives for 1 man is not a modern Christian family value.

Shall I go on to Mark?  Luke?  John?  Acts?  Romans? And so forth?

My point is that Jesus is no role model and that he was anti-family.  So why do Christians push this crap about "Christian family values" when these "values" are non-existent in the bible but are really innate values within them?



you are dumb.
keep looking for holes in a whole.

Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: NT & Jesus' Family Values
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2009, 05:50:25 PM »
But what is the whole? ... it is the sum of its parts!  Your god can not fill these holes left by Jesus (except with man-concocted dogma). If you are in support of families and given this info in the scriptures then Jesus is a not a man worthy of following.  To say Jesus was pro-family is not only dumb, but it is dim-witted, obtuse, ridiculous, and foolish!
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Offline Hermes

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Re: NT & Jesus' Family Values
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2009, 06:40:14 PM »
Why does timeless truth need to be explained in the context of the times?

Did you ever read about the parable Jesus taught regarding the nuclear explosion? Hmmmm...

The parables and examples were based on local times and culture. The truth of those parables/examples is timeless.

Yet, they generally had a subset of what we know now.  So, as Erasmus asked;

Why does timeless truth need to be explained in the context of the times?

The question is not invalidated by automobiles or atom bombs.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 06:41:55 PM by Hermes »
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