Evangelism

[Azdgari]

Mommykicksbutt, you say you disagree, but you didn't actually contradict what I said.  I get atheists knocking on my door all the time:  They're friends of mine.  Because they are not evangelizing, they are irrelevant to the topic of this thread, and to the current discussion.

Tbright only mentioned atheists knocking on doors.  I know he probably meant "to evangelize atheism", but there is no reason to give him that maneuvering room to dodge into later on.

[mommykicksbutt]

Oh, sorry, my fault, I should have used more colors from my crayon box.  I thought it was understood that the child in the OP was evangelising. My implication in my question is that people we may or may not know knocking at the front door to our home uninvited for the purpose of "evangelising" a brand or bend of atheism to us in a similarly like fashion of the door-to-door religious sales people do.  I contend that this doesn't happen.  But this was only used as an analogy for TB.  And yes, I do have people I know, who are atheists, knock on my door but they are not there for the purpose selling their brand of non-belief.

[Azdgari]

Mommykicksbutt, everyone here understands that the OP was about evangelizing.  I understand this.  You understand this.  Even tbright, although his language gave him wiggle-room out of it, understands this.  That's not what I was actually saying.

I would appreciate it if you read what I actually said (which was originally in your defence, against possible misrepresentation by tbright), rather than attacking what you wish I'd said.

[Nam]

I disagree. The OP has a snake oil salesmen, albeit only a child, knocking at his door and ask our opinion of what to do in this case.  Others here have had the same or similar experiences.  TB is questioning the validity of Nam's claim of young evangelists knocking at his door, yet some of us have experience this.  The "atheist knocking at the door" is a blatant comparison in opposition to TB claim of non validity.  (yes, atheist just don't do this).  So how is TB to recognize the disconsternation we share about door-to-door religious salesmen if he can not comprehend it, I just put in in terms he might be able to compare.  Yes, my point is absurd, I admit, but so is TB's comment that implies Nam's experience didn't happen.  TB seems not to understand the disquietness of the situation.

I did state it was my first time experiencing a child knocking on my door. So, perhaps that's where tbright gets the sense that I may be making the entire thing up, or the fact that I actually spoke to him where as all the others I didn't. I either ignored them or just said, "No thank you." and left it at that. But as I stated: it was the first time a child knocked on my door. There was no car on the street waiting for this kid, he was out there on his own doing it. It was new, therefore I was curious. But I can understand tbright's position. However, tbright, of all people, should know that people knock on doors to "bring the message of Jesus" so the possibility of a child doing it, though perhaps slim, is still possible.

-Nam

[tbright]

I disagree. The OP has a snake oil salesmen, albeit only a child, knocking at his door and ask our opinion of what to do in this case.  Others here have had the same or similar experiences.  TB is questioning the validity of Nam's claim of young evangelists knocking at his door, yet some of us have experience this.  The "atheist knocking at the door" is a blatant comparison in opposition to TB claim of non validity.  (yes, atheist just don't do this).  So how is TB to recognize the disconsternation we share about door-to-door religious salesmen if he can not comprehend it, I just put in in terms he might be able to compare.  Yes, my point is absurd, I admit, but so is TB's comment that implies Nam's experience didn't happen.  TB seems not to understand the disquietness of the situation.

I did state it was my first time experiencing a child knocking on my door. So, perhaps that's where tbright gets the sense that I may be making the entire thing up, or the fact that I actually spoke to him where as all the others I didn't. I either ignored them or just said, "No thank you." and left it at that. But as I stated: it was the first time a child knocked on my door. There was no car on the street waiting for this kid, he was out there on his own doing it. It was new, therefore I was curious. But I can understand tbright's position. However, tbright, of all people, should know that people knock on doors to "bring the message of Jesus" so the possibility of a child doing it, though perhaps slim, is still possible.

I'm still not buying your story. Why don't you tell us the whole truth?

[Star Stuff]

I'm still not buying your story.

There's that healthy skepticism again.  Too bad you cannot direct it towards the story of the fictional, virgin-born super-hero, written about by nobody during his alleged life, but rather decades later by saviour groupies.

It would be nice if you were consistent.

[mommykicksbutt]

I'm still not buying your story. Why don't you tell us the whole truth?

What are you "not buying" in the story?

[Crocoduck]

I'm still not buying your story. Why don't you tell us the whole truth?

im with tbright on this one. no talking animals, miracles,  disasters, or fire and brimstone, plus the people were real. how are we supposed to take his story seriously?

[Fridge]

I'm still not buying your story. Why don't you tell us the whole truth?

im with tbright on this one. no talking animals, miracles,  disasters, or fire and brimstone, plus the people were real. how are we supposed to take his story seriously?

It's written down, it must be true.

[Nam]

I'm still not buying your story. Why don't you tell us the whole truth?

How about you tell me what the truth is since you assume you know it more than I do.

-Nam

[valbernados]

So around 11am this morning I was...doing something, and I heard a knock on my door. I went to answer it and there was a 13 year old boy, all dressed up, Bible in hand, with a booklet and he asked me, "Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour?" Now, this was not normal for me. I do get Christians knocking on my door at least twice a month, and I usually look through my peephole on my door, and see them, and then go back to what I was doing, and just wait for them to go away. Sometimes they don't, and then I open the door and say, "No thank you." or something like that, and if they don't go away, I give them a reason to go away in a civil manner 'til they make me do something uncivil. I remember once a person came back the next day, and so I opened the door in my "Birthday Suit", and she never came back again. That'll do it. But what was not normal for me in this regard is that it was a child. This is the first time a child came knocking on my door to evangelize. So, I opened the door, after he asked me the question I replied with, "Shouldn't you be in school?" and he replied, "I got suspended." I asked for what reason, and he said, "For spreading the word of Christ in school." I asked him why is he going door-to-door, and he said, "'Cause I don't want to go to Hell." And then I said, "Who told you you're going to go to Hell if you don't evangelize?" And he said, "The preacher at my Church." So, I asked him what Church he went to, and he told me, and I know that Church, and I said, "Try going to this Church [Church name and address]" And then I bid him adieu. He left. Hopefully going home.

Has anyone ever experienced a child knocking on their door to "spread the word"? 'Cause this was a first for me.

And, if someone asks me why I gave him the name of another Church and didn't explain to him why he is believing in fairy-tales or what not is because 1. he's 13. He wouldn't understand, and even if he did, it's not something I should be explaining to him. 2. I really don't care if he's a Christian. That's his business, not mine. If it makes him happy, then fine. 3. I felt at the time, and still do, that the Church I told him to check out would be better for him because the Church I suggested he go to wouldn't tell him he'd go to Hell if he didn't evangelize. Not all churches are so fundamental.

-Nam

When someone becomes a Christian, he/she do not have to worry about hell….
For salvation can be attained through faith in Jesus…
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” Ephesians 2:8

If you accept Jesus as your Lord and Personal Savior, He actually removed you from the danger of Hell… You are totally forgiven…

If your acceptance is genuine, you will receive the Holy Spirit…
This Holy Spirit will change your whole being…

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the old has gone, the new has come. All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation” 2 Corinthians 5:17-18

That child has been told with a wrong interpretation of the Bible…
Or maybe what the child actually said is he is afraid for you to go to hell.

Evangelism should be done out of love and concern… And not out of fear…

What makes Christianity confusing are the way people misinterpret it… Specially the Old Testament… and Salvation.

=)

[Nam]

That child has been told with a wrong interpretation of the Bible…
Or maybe what the child actually said is he is afraid for you to go to hell.

No. He said "HE" was afraid to go to Hell. His preacher at his church (from what the boy said) is that if the people in his church doesn't evangelize then they will go to Hell. Since the boy was in the Church with everyone else, I assume he thought it also applied to him. So, he evangelized at school which garnered him a suspension. So, then he started going around the neighborhood to spread the word so he wouldn't go to Hell.

Is it not possible that some Churches do not preach the same way as other Churches? That they interpret the Bible one way, and teach that one way to those who are members of their Church? Is it not possible for a person of authority in a Church to use such devices by stepping away from the message a bit to "save" more people? Because, perhaps, they feel if they don't, they will go to Hell?

Evangelism should be done out of love and concern… And not out of fear…

Christianity, in my experience, has always been about FEAR.

"*Nam, Buddy, if you do not sign this petition to ban homosexuals from marching in the parade then I will spread a rumor that you both are not only homosexuals yourself but you are lovers." - Preacher of Mary Belle Baptist Church, Live Oak, Florida. 1996.

Now, how is fear not being applied here? Where is the love?

This is my experience of "love" at Churches I have attended. All but one Church, and that's the Church I told the kid that he should perhaps look into going.

I know more Church's that use devices of fear to spread the gospel, or the "truth" or whatever, than I do those who do not use fear as a tool.

These Churches are a good indication as to why there are so many former Christians. They spread hate, and contempt. And, when you don't do what they say they will belittle, berate, and mock you to you either leave their Church or you submit to their will.

Again: I know more Churches like this, than not.

-Nam


*in place of real name

[Erasmus]

I will 100% back up the fear sentiment. I've been to my parent's church, and the preacher has bragged several times about how he kicked his children out of the house and wouldn't recognize them as his children because they started to live an immoral life. The only immorality he mentioned was partying, but he waxed eloquent about it, and he told the church that it was their duty as Christians to do the same thing he did if their children rejected Christianity. He then tied on to this further "moral" obligation by insisting that apostate children were not only a threat to themselves, but that they would corrupt their siblings if allowed to stay in the household. He's preached this several times, and it's pretty unnerving to watch my parents say Amen to it.

[Star Stuff]

When someone becomes a Christian, he/she do not have to worry about hell….

Corrected:

When someone realizes that god is imaginary, he/she does not have to worry about hell.