Author Topic: GOOD NEWS [#1190]  (Read 626 times)

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Offline DL

GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« on: March 23, 2009, 09:34:24 PM »
Let first start by saying I AM NOT SAYING YOUR WRONG

As an intelligent person do you expect me to believe this world was
magically created from a bang. As an intelligent person i think there has to
be something to make a bang. I think an unintellgent person would agree. As
an intelligent person i don't believe all of the sudden planets just
appeared from nothing. Something cant come from nothing can it? Lets say
this big bang did happen and some how the planets magically did appear from
a bang of nothing, then how was the first living organism created?  Well as
a person who doesnt believe in god then life was created from a pool of goo
that was hit by lightning.  Does that sound liek something an intelligent
person shouuld believe? I think that sounds a hell of a lot more imaginary
and i dont know how people can handle creating that rationalization in there
head?????

If there isnt a God then what happens when we die?

well i hope i get written back because this video just pissed me off. Its
really annoying to ask intelligent quistions on such a sensitive subject all
your doing is pushing your beliefes on other people. ANd most importantantly
basically slapping religous people in the face, which is exactly why things
like 9/11 happen. Things like 9.11 dont happen because of there religion,
they happen because someone tried telling them they are wrong.

Please write back i would love to hear what you have to say.

thanks

Offline Hermes

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2009, 09:38:00 PM »
"If there isnt a God then what happens when we die?"

Actually, the existence of a deity, or many deities, has nothing to do with what happens after death.

If you have any questions, comments, or corrections on the description below, please feel free to contact me on the forums.



"Where will I go when I die?"

I know the answer to that.  When I'm alive, I am -- when I'm dead, I am not.

Here's the long version;

Summary: There is no such thing as a soul.  Because of that, there is no existence for us after our lives are over.  That's why it's called death.

How can I write that with any confidence?

Think about what we know -- what we can actually check and examine.  Think about what we do not need to speculate about -- on both life and death.

1. Death is not a clear line; on one side alive, on the other completely dead.

Death happens in stages as individual cells no longer retain integrity for a variety of reasons, often because of oxygen starvation from organ failure or trauma that prevents the blood from circulating.  Parts of us are dying and new cells are being made all the time.

2. Organ transplants.  Even when 'we' cease to be, parts of us are still coherent, allowing organ transplants.  There is even a method of blood extraction from corpses that is used occasionally.

3. All of our thoughts while we are alive are contained in a structure of neurons.  This can be seen in a variety of well documented cases from Phineas Gage through to the impacts of severing the corpus colosum and the impacts of traumas such as strokes and alzheimers as well as the structures found that map nerves to a variety of tasks and thoughts.

4. When people start to die, the brain is frequently one of the last organs to be starved of oxygen.

5. The 'tunnel of light' is caused by the visual cortex losing oxygen and the remaining parts of the brain attempting to deal with that.  The same 'tunnel' can be simulated.  Pilots experience this when they use a centrifuge under high G forces for training or to test new gear.  Both these are documented and can be duplicated with the proper equipment and/or circumstances.

6. People who live after being through this oxygen starvation tell stories based on their brain's attempt to deal with the stress.  They talk about 'flash backs', they talk about 'stepping outside' of themselves and seeing themselves.  The same thing the pilots in the centrifuges report.

7. The more time the brain or any organ is starved, the more damage.

8. People don't act any differently from more damage (that brings them closer to complete death and thus an 'afterlife') then other victims of brain damage.

9. When people 'come back' from 'the dead' their bodies have not suffered complete cell death; they weren't completely dead.

10. When cell death is complete, there is no place for 'us' to stand; there is no way to 'see the other side' and return to talk about it.

11. Think back to #3.  Now, with that in mind, where do 'we' go if our brains suffer a stroke or other damage?  Are there surpluses of souls hanging around, waiting for brain damage before they can be inserted into a live body?
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Hermes

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2009, 09:45:01 PM »
I will leave you other questions for other people, yet I do have one for you;

* What do you have to say to Christians that have no problem with biology (including evolution and the fledgling study of abiogenesis), cosmology (including studying the early universe), and other disciplines both scientific and otherwise?
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Irish

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 10:15:42 PM »
As an intelligent person do you expect me to believe this world wasmagically created from a bang. As an intelligent person i think there has to be something to make a bang.

No, I expect you to know a little more about that which you are mocking.  Not one credible scientist claims that anything at anytime "banged."

Let me guess... you got this bullshit from a Kent Hovind-esque character?

Quote
As an intelligent person i don't believe all of the sudden planets just appeared from nothing. Something cant come from nothing can it?

1.) Per our current findings and knowledge there never has been a "nothing" but there has always been mass-energy (a something).

2.) I don't think the planets formed "all of the sudden" either.  Billions of years was needed to form our planetary system.

Quote
Lets say this big bang did happen

All current data shows that the Big Bang did happen.  It is the Big Bang Theory because it best fits the available data collected. (I'm assuming you also know the scientific definition of "theory")

Quote
and some how the planets magically did appear from a bang of nothing

^ See above ^

Quote
then how was the first living organism created?

And here you are confusing The Big Bang Theory with planetary formation with abiogenesis.  I'll make it simple:  The terms are complimentary but not dependent on each other.  In essence:

The Big Bang Theory =/= Abiogenesis

Quote
Well as a person who doesnt believe in god then life was created from a pool of goo that was hit by lightning.  Does that sound liek something an intelligent person shouuld believe? I think that sounds a hell of a lot more imaginary and i dont know how people can handle creating that rationalization in there head?????

Is this Kent Hovind?!  Kent, I didn't know you had internet access in your prison cell.  Tell me, do they have wireless or are you connected by wire?

Quote
If there isnt a God then what happens when we die?

When we die we die.... I don't know what you want me to say.  We die, cease to exist, game over, the end, close the book, bury the hatchet, croak, no longer functioning, etc.

There is no soul that transcends to heaven or to hell or anywhere else.  The sooner you accept this reality the better.

Quote
well i hope i get written back because this video just pissed me off. Its really annoying to ask intelligent quistions on such a sensitive subject all your doing is pushing your beliefes on other people.

1.) Does the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution piss you off... you know... the Amendment guaranteeing those certain freedoms to all citizens... not just the religious majority.

2.) Please don't get started with the "atheism is a belief system" or "atheism is a religion" bullshit.... it just goes 'round and 'round and you look ignorant when you start it.

Quote
ANd most importantantly basically slapping religous people in the face, which is exactly why thing like 9/11 happen.

Wait... did you seriously just equate atheism to the events on 9/11!!!  What an ignorant statement.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 12:12:12 AM by Irish »
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline Tails_155

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 11:28:25 PM »
how many of these "what happens when we die?" messages are we gonna get in a row?
Live! Learn! Laugh! Love! Lead!

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Offline Persian

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2009, 04:20:37 AM »
Yea, stop with your dying argument...
When you die, nothing special happens, you'll feel the same way you felt before you were born.

Offline Dkit

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2009, 09:40:27 AM »
As an intelligent person do you expect me to believe this world was magically created from a bang. As an intelligent person i think there has to
be something to make a bang. I think an unintellgent person would agree. As an intelligent person i don't believe all of the sudden planets just
appeared from nothing. Something cant come from nothing can it? Lets say this big bang did happen and some how the planets magically did appear from
a bang of nothing, then how was the first living organism created?  Well as a person who doesnt believe in god then life was created from a pool of goo
that was hit by lightning.  Does that sound liek something an intelligent person shouuld believe? I think that sounds a hell of a lot more imaginary
and i dont know how people can handle creating that rationalization in there head?????
There are plenty of good science websites which address the Big Bang, how the planets developed and abiogenesis.  I don't think any of them will claim it happened by "magic".  Talkorigins.org and Livescience.com are good sites to start with.

If there isnt a God then what happens when we die?
The same thing that happens to animals when they die.  They cease to exist.

well i hope i get written back because this video just pissed me off. Its
really annoying to ask intelligent quistions on such a sensitive subject all
your doing is pushing your beliefes on other people. ANd most importantantly
basically slapping religous people in the face, which is exactly why things
like 9/11 happen. Things like 9.11 dont happen because of there religion,
they happen because someone tried telling them they are wrong.
What is wrong with questioning why people believe certain things which will ultimately inform the decisions they make?  Religion has had a "free pass" for too long.  There is no reason to elevate anyone's beliefs about reality unless such beliefs can be supported by evidence.  In other words, get over it.
"The Bible is a Banquet table not a snack tray!" - Anonymous Facebook User

Offline omniweasel

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2009, 12:09:18 PM »
Quote
well i hope i get written back because this video just pissed me off. Its
really annoying to ask intelligent quistions on such a sensitive subject all
your doing is pushing your beliefes on other people. ANd most importantantly
basically slapping religous people in the face, which is exactly why things
like 9/11 happen. Things like 9.11 dont happen because of there religion,
they happen because someone tried telling them they are wrong.
yes things like that do happen because of their religion. the 9/11 hijackers did what they did because thier religion told them that they would go directly to heaven if they did. the KKK empowers themselves to kill blacks because cain turned black after he killed abel. Hitler was able to start the holocaust because the jews hated and killed christ, the Thugee killed alot of people because they felt Kali gave them the power to do so, the spanish inquisition tortured people because it was thier religious duty to convert others and save thier souls, the crusades happened because the christians and muslims felt that it was thier divine right to own the holy land, Vikings went around from country to country slaughtering and raping because if they didn't die in battle/prove themselves warriors they would not be selected to goto Val halla.

Offline velkyn

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2009, 12:25:10 PM »
Quote
Let first start by saying I AM NOT SAYING YOUR WRONG
Yes, yes, you are.  Why lie about your intentions?
Quote
As an intelligent person do you expect me to believe this world was magically created from a bang.

YOu may be intelligent but you are willfully ignorant about cosmology.  No magic, no "bang" as I'm sure you think of that word.
Quote
As an intelligent person i think there has to be something to make a bang. I think an unintellgent person would agree. As an intelligent person i don't believe all of the sudden planets just appeared from nothing. Something cant come from nothing can it?
special pleading.  If something can't come from nothing, you are stuck with explaining where your God came from.
Quote
Lets say this big bang did happen and some how the planets magically did appear from a bang of nothing, then how was the first living organism created?  Well as a person who doesnt believe in god then life was created from a pool of goo that was hit by lightning.  Does that sound liek something an intelligent person shouuld believe?

No, becaue you keep invoking magic.  Science isn't magic and biology doesn't invoke magic.  And if you are too willfully ignorant to understand that, please cease using any modern conveniences that science helped invent.  The same science that you decry is the same that you use and accept when it *doesn't* say your myths are wrong.  You are a hypocrite.
Quote
I think that sounds a hell of a lot more imaginary and i dont know how people can handle creating that rationalization in there head?????
I agree, you keep invoking magic in the form of your God.  How imaginary is that?
Quote
If there isnt a God then what happens when we die?
we rot. 
Quote
well i hope i get written back because this video just pissed me off. Its really annoying to ask intelligent quistions on such a sensitive subject all your doing is pushing your beliefes on other people. ANd most importantantly basically slapping religous people in the face, which is exactly why things like 9/11 happen. Things like 9.11 dont happen because of there religion, they happen because someone tried telling them they are wrong. Please write back i would love to hear what you have to say.thanks
Considering your ignorance, I find it amusing that you can be "pissed off" at anything since you don't understand it.  It sounds like you are threatening violence if people tell you your religion is wrong.  Are you? 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline GotMooo

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2009, 07:13:13 PM »
Quote
If there isnt a God then what happens when we die?

When you die, you no longer exist.  (Except your physical remains of course)

Offline 13UnderTheGun

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2009, 01:25:41 PM »
9/11 happened because we told people they were wrong?

"Tell me Cliff, What color is the sky in your world?"
The more we learn about the heavens, the more we realize that Heaven is imaginary.


LOOK GOD DOES EXIST AND IF U CANT SEE THAT THEN YOUR A STUPID RETARDED IDIOT WHO IS AN ATHIEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2009, 04:44:39 PM »
As an intelligent person i don't believe all of the sudden planets just
appeared from nothing. Something cant come from nothing can it?...how was the first living organism created? 


I agree with you here. Something does not just come from nothing. Especially something as massive as a planet. So, keeping with this line of thinking, where did God come from? Wasn't God the first living organism? :-\
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Hermes

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2009, 11:01:26 PM »
Quote
Please write back i would love to hear what you have to say.

I wrote a reply to you.

Are you not going to return the favor?

I'm especially interested in any holes you find in my message about the afterlife and souls.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Irish

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Re: GOOD NEWS [#1190]
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2009, 11:32:41 PM »
Please write back i would love to hear what you have to say.

We did.  What do you have to say?
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.