Author Topic: A question for any theist.  (Read 8643 times)

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Offline Aaron123

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #87 on: April 09, 2009, 01:15:07 PM »
Yes I have evidence.........I have experienced God working in my life.

Name some.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline justaguy_1

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #88 on: April 09, 2009, 01:19:05 PM »
For once I was blind but now I see.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #89 on: April 09, 2009, 01:23:48 PM »
For once I was blind but now I see.

Are you actually going to provide evidence, or just obfuscate?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline justaguy_1

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #90 on: April 09, 2009, 01:28:38 PM »
You will never understand what that means.....until you are a believer.  You want tangible proof.  How do I provide you with tangible proof......other than telling you what my experience has been??

Offline Aaron123

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #91 on: April 09, 2009, 01:39:24 PM »
You will never understand what that means.....until you are a believer.  You want tangible proof.  How do I provide you with tangible proof......other than telling you what my experience has been??

Obfuscation at it's finest.  You've just proven you have nothing to contribute to this thread.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline justaguy_1

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #92 on: April 09, 2009, 01:41:27 PM »
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.  What have you contributed to this thread?  I answered what you asked .......all you have is more questions or trying to discredit what I have stated.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 01:43:05 PM by justaguy_1 »

Offline Aaron123

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2009, 01:47:56 PM »
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.  What have you contributed to this thread?  I answered what you asked .......all you have is more questions or trying to discredit what I have stated.

You said you have evidence for Jesus' existance and that you've "experienced God working" in your life.  I asked for the evidence.  You proved none and resorted to obfuscation.

All you had to do was provide evidence, but you didn't.  That suggests you have none.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline justaguy_1

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #94 on: April 09, 2009, 01:55:26 PM »
As I stated before.............once I was blind but now I see.  You will never understand that..... and that does answer your question.  Sounds like all you want to do is argue.  There is a difference between discussing and arguing.  Do you know the difference?  I thought the original topic in here was a question about what compells one to believe what they believe which I answered.

Why would I try to explain something that I believe with someone that is opposed to my viewpoint and clearly doesn't want to understand it?  That would be futile.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 02:24:45 PM by justaguy_1 »

Offline Aaron123

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #95 on: April 09, 2009, 02:28:47 PM »
Quote
As I stated before.............once I was blind but now I see.  You will never understand that..... and that does answer your question.

No, it does not answer the question.  You're just using vague, poetic-sounding words, which means nothing in actuality.  Try to give me some concrete evidence.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #96 on: April 09, 2009, 02:48:06 PM »
As I stated before.............once I was blind but now I see.  You will never understand that..... and that does answer your question.  Sounds like all you want to do is argue.  There is a difference between discussing and arguing.  Do you know the difference?  I thought the original topic in here was a question about what compells one to believe what they believe which I answered.

Why would I try to explain something that I believe with someone that is opposed to my viewpoint and clearly doesn't want to understand it?  That would be futile.

Do you mean you literally were blind and now have vision? 

I assume that you are using a metaphor that means you now have an understanding that you did not have before. All religions have believers who say that if you follow their way it will open your eyes and give you understanding that you did not have before. The ancient Mayans, Greeks, Egyptians and Romans thought that. Haitians who practice Vodun think that, too.

How is your way different from the Hindu way, the Native American way, the santeria way, etc? Why do you think you have gotten on the right path to a Supreme Being and the others are wrong? Is it a feeling you have or is it something concrete about your life that could not be explained in any other way?
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline Dkit

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #97 on: April 09, 2009, 02:54:15 PM »
Yes I have evidence.........I have experienced God working in my life.
What about the adherents of other religions who claim to have experienced their god in their lives?
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Offline velkyn

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #98 on: April 09, 2009, 03:03:07 PM »
I have only stated what I believe.  I don't try to force my views upon anyone.  I was just stating one of the tennants of my faith.  I didn't write it.........so don't blame me.

IF I am wrong...........what have I lost??  I am willing to take that gamble.

"don't blame me".  Oh, how that resonates with every peson who ever did something horrible because they thought someone in power told them to. 

You chose to beleieve it and yes I "blame" you for making that choice. 
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Offline ksm

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #99 on: April 10, 2009, 04:19:51 AM »
As I stated before.............once I was blind but now I see.  You will never understand that..... and that does answer your question.  Sounds like all you want to do is argue.  There is a difference between discussing and arguing.  Do you know the difference?  I thought the original topic in here was a question about what compells one to believe what they believe which I answered.

Why would I try to explain something that I believe with someone that is opposed to my viewpoint and clearly doesn't want to understand it?  That would be futile.

The problem is that people who follow other religions, and worship completely different gods will tell me exactly the same thing. Which of you am I supposed to believe?

Offline sam

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #100 on: April 13, 2009, 05:09:54 PM »
As I stated before.............once I was blind but now I see.  You will never understand that..... and that does answer your question.  Sounds like all you want to do is argue.  There is a difference between discussing and arguing.  Do you know the difference?  I thought the original topic in here was a question about what compells one to believe what they believe which I answered.

Why would I try to explain something that I believe with someone that is opposed to my viewpoint and clearly doesn't want to understand it?  That would be futile.

The problem is that people who follow other religions, and worship completely different gods will tell me exactly the same thing. Which of you am I supposed to believe?

Don't believe anyone investigate for yourself

Offline ksm

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #101 on: April 13, 2009, 07:59:08 PM »
I have and statistically there is no difference between any of you.

You can't all be right, but you can all be wrong. As long as the majority of you (theists) insist on magic as the key support for your beliefs I will reserve my judgment.

Offline God

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #102 on: April 13, 2009, 10:17:34 PM »
ksm, the "right one" is the answer you ask for.  You know that.  You have to decide.  You do not have forever to make up you mind.  What is most likely?  You are a rational person.  What do you think?

Offline ksm

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #103 on: April 13, 2009, 10:28:00 PM »
ksm, the "right one" is the answer you ask for.  You know that.  You have to decide.  You do not have forever to make up you mind.  What is most likely?  You are a rational person.  What do you think?

None of them is more likely. They're all equally based on wishful thinking, fallacies, and fear of death.

What is the "right one"?
How would I determine which one is the right one?
Why does every believer claim they have the right one?
Why can no believer actually provide any credible evidence that theirs is the right one?

Are trotting out poor old Pascal's corpse here? Do you not understand why it fails?

Offline God

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #104 on: April 13, 2009, 10:34:35 PM »
Ok, you have obviously thought this through.  I am older than you I would wager and I must get some rest.  The issues will be there for you tomorrow and you have to decide for yourself in any event.  I wish you well. 

Offline ksm

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #105 on: April 13, 2009, 10:46:03 PM »
Ok, you have obviously thought this through.  I am older than you I would wager and I must get some rest.  The issues will be there for you tomorrow and you have to decide for yourself in any event.  I wish you well. 

The issues have been there for me for the last 26 years.

Did you assume I was just some punk youth who jumped onto the bandwagon when atheism became cool?

Offline velkyn

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #106 on: April 14, 2009, 11:59:58 AM »
ksm, the "right one" is the answer you ask for.  You know that.  You have to decide.  You do not have forever to make up you mind.  What is most likely?  You are a rational person.  What do you think?

always love them god threats. 
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Offline God

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #107 on: April 14, 2009, 05:51:56 PM »
"atheism became cool"?  Is it?  In any event, you have to admit that your membership in this forum hardly suggests a nonconformist personality.

Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #108 on: April 14, 2009, 05:58:00 PM »
"atheism became cool"?  Is it?  In any event, you have to admit that your membership in this forum hardly suggests a nonconformist personality.

Very hard to organize us atheists, we are all independent thinkers, not a lemming among us.  Imagine trying to herd cats, yep, that's what it would be like trying to organize atheists.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #109 on: April 14, 2009, 05:59:42 PM »
Yeah, that's why we are atheists. Because we are trying to blend in and conform! All 5-15% of us on the planet....
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline ksm

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #110 on: April 14, 2009, 07:18:05 PM »
"atheism became cool"?  Is it?  In any event, you have to admit that your membership in this forum hardly suggests a nonconformist personality.

No I do not have to admit anything.

If I was a conformist I would have been in church for the last 26 years.

Offline God

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #111 on: April 14, 2009, 08:09:41 PM »
Ksm, I guess that depends on your community.  I am quite confident that some communities can be hostile to agnostics.   I have had my own experiences with intolerance and it can be really unpleasant.  I practice tolerance toward those I disagree with but I strongly assert my right to disagree as well as theirs, i.e., tolerance does not mean capitulation.

Offline ksm

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #112 on: April 14, 2009, 09:07:41 PM »
Not sure how we got from conformism to tolerance. I'm sure the two are related though.

I do agree with what you have written above.

Offline God

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #113 on: April 14, 2009, 09:44:30 PM »
When you said "church" in the context you did I drew conclusions.  No one can help what they think and believe.  You can blame someone for their conduct, but not their belief, no matter how mistaken you think they may be.  It's illogical.

Offline velkyn

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #114 on: April 15, 2009, 10:09:54 AM »
When you said "church" in the context you did I drew conclusions.  No one can help what they think and believe.  You can blame someone for their conduct, but not their belief, no matter how mistaken you think they may be.  It's illogical.

You have every right to blame someone for their belief if they keep themselves willfully ignorant. 
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Offline God

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Re: A question for any theist.
« Reply #115 on: April 15, 2009, 05:26:53 PM »
Quote
willfully ignorant.

All men/women by nature want to know.  That is why we value sight above all other senses - we can take in so much information through our sight.  I understand your sentiment.  In the case you describe the subject is dishonest not intentionally ignorant. 

Ignorance is actually a vast theological subject.  Consider this for example:
Quote
So far as fixing human responsibility, the most important division of ignorance is that designated by the terms invincible and vincible. Ignorance is said to be invincible when a person is unable to rid himself of it notwithstanding the employment of moral diligence, that is, such as under the circumstances is, morally speaking, possible and obligatory. This manifestly includes the states of inadvertence, forgetfulness, etc. Such ignorance is obviously involuntary and therefore not imputable. On the other hand, ignorance is termed vincible if it can be dispelled by the use of "moral diligence". This certainly does not mean all possible effort; otherwise, as Ballerini naively says, we should have to have recourse to the pope in every instance. We may say, however, that the diligence requisite must be commensurate with the importance of the affair in hand, and with the capacity of the agent, in a word such as a really sensible and prudent person would use under the circumstances. Furthermore, it must be remembered that the obligation mentioned above is to be interpreted strictly and exclusively as the duty incumbent on a man to do something, the precise object of which is the acquisition of the needed knowledge. In other words the mere fact that one is bound by some extrinsic title to do something the performance of which would have actually, though not necessarily, given the required information, is negligible. When ignorance is deliberately aimed at and fostered, it is said to be affected, not because it is pretended, but rather because it is sought for by the agent so that he may not have to relinquish his purpose. Ignorance which practically no effort is made to dispel is termed crass or supine.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm