Please don't disregard this ha :) [#1082]

[Deus ex Machina]

But that wasn't what I was driving at. The sacrifices were to "wash away" transgressions, just as Jesus' sacrifice - supposedly the sacrifice to end all sacrifices - is supposed to have been. It's still cut from the same cloth, though: blood-magic, put simply.

Yes to have a relationship with God.
You cannot have a relationship with God and still be full of unforgiven sin.
Sacrifices were used so one could be forgiven thus enabling them to have a relationship with God.
Jesus was the sacrifice to end all sacrifices...it's because of him we are able to have eternal life (if God exists)

Why do I feel that you're evading the point?

[Max Kodan]

Let's stick to the analogy for now, and not go into a discussion on God's nature.

So we've concluded that:

I chose beef, if and only if you didn't know that I would choose chicken.

That can logically go the other way:

If and only if you didn't know that I would choose chicken, I would have been able to choose beef.

Which translates to:

If you knew I would choose chicken, I wouldn't have been able to choose beef.

Which part of my deduction do you disagree with?

_______________

And go do your homework

...I'm hungry all of a sudden.

[Ambassador Pony]

Before Jesus' crucifixion other sacrifices had to be made.

How does anything "have" to be made in a system created by an omnipotent deity?

In order for God to forgive us of our sins we had to seek that forgiveness through alternate means before the life and death of Jesus Christ.

No, you don't understand. how could "had to" and "have to" exist in a world created by an omnipotent deity?

He made sins, he knew exactly how they would manifest, when, where, and how they would interact with the universe, in your worldview (not mine). When you use the words "have to", even when refering to what humans "have to" do, you are either saying that god is imperfect, or that predestination exists (no free choice) and god is a sadistic monster (which contradicts the premise of your inculcated belief set).

[Ambassador Pony]

But God gives us choice.  It's us who chose to deny God..God doesn't decide for us.
It's us who decide to do terrible things.
God wants us to pick him he doesn't want , in a sense, a bunch of robots worshipping him.

That you simply re-state an illogical assertion doesn't make I any more valid.

Free choice cannot exist in the world you say exists. An omnipotent, omniscient creator deity contradicts it, fo rthe reasons already stated ad nauseum.

And, good for you for following French.

[Ambassador Pony]

So if i offered you an apple or a banana knowing you would chose the banana because i know you simply hate apples...you wouldn't have made the choice in taking the banana?
Thats how it is with God...He knows what we're going to chose but we still have to chose.

No. God is omnipotent, and created everything, according to your worldview. Those two elements are missing from your analogy.

You can't know perfectly, like god does, that I will eat the banana, when you make the prediction it only a possibility, no matter how probable.

And, you did not have perfect knowledge before creating me either.

God, in your worldview, knew everything you would ever do before he created you, then he created you. As I said, that means he created you with the intention that you would do those things that he knew perfectly well you would do for all eternity. It is creation with intention. No free choice, just the choice that god always knew you would make, exactly as he designed you to make it.

Do you follow?   

aa oh i know..the grade 12 French class at my school is only 5 people.
our grade 10 class was 20.

Woo Ontario... I live in Winnipeg
I probably should practice up haha
I seem to have the most trouble with remembering grammar rules and when to use them etc.

So many peggers here too now. You are the third, second this month.

[Ambassador Pony]

T, one more thing. If you want to re-state, yet again, that free-choice exists, you can actually demonstrate it if you use an analogy with beings that match the one you worship, not ones that don't have the qualities essential to what we are discussing.

In your analogy, use omniscient deities that created everything and everybody. I contend you can't do it, without compartmentalizing away a blatant contradiction.

 

[hickdive]

I'd appreciate if you'd stop bothering me for the evidence
it will be posted i promise
patience please

I appreciate you're being bombarded with questions and are busy at home but is there any chance of seeing this evidence?

[Cycle4Fun]

3 pages and she still doesn't seem to grasp that you can't be Omnipotent and have there be any free choice.

[hickdive]

I'd appreciate if you'd stop bothering me for the evidence
it will be posted i promise
patience please

Well, I guess that promise wasn't worth much. How typically christian.

[Hermes]

Now that's unfair.  It hasn't even been a month yet.   

[Sebine]

Faith is believing in something you know is not true.

I'm sorry that's what you believe but that's not true

I know God is real because of my relationship with him

"god" is goin to jail because you're under age

[Noumenon]

Woo Ontario... I live in Winnipeg

Canadian...figures!

 

[xTigerx]

Still no evidence?  You got my hopes up.  Oh well, hopefully the next Christian to stop by can pick up where you left off.