Milk illusion [#126]

[PostalGirl]

To the presenter of the "milk illusion" demonstration:

Let me begin by saying "thank you" for your incredible revelation regarding God and
prayer as it relates to a milk jug.  For years I have always though it was real.  I have
done it all my life.  I have grown up with it.  It has almost been a daily routine in my
life.  It has influenced my life, I thought I felt it.  I was convinced even that it was
good for me and that I could even taste it.  Even with all the commercials that says it
does the body good.  Yes!  I was convinced that milk existed.  But as you stated that
because God, even though He has greatly impacted my life, I have experienced His presence
and He has tremendously effected my life;  because He doesn't answer my prayers ALWAYS
the way I expect He must not exist.  Just because milk doesn't answer my prayers the way
I expect, I guess there is no such thing as milk. .... Oh! No!  I just realized,  I don't
always answer my children the way they would like either, therefore I must be an illusion
and not exist (according to your great argument!)  Just a little side note from someone
who doesn't exist regarding studies on prayer. A survey was done in 1997 by the "American
Academy of Family Physicians" it showed 99% of doctors believe a relationship exists
between faith and physical healing.  It was bolstered by a California study on the
effects of prayer on recovery from heart problems.  About 200 patients were assigned to
Christians who prayed for them, while an equal number had no known prayers.  Neither
group was aware of the prayers (or lack of prayer).  Those who received no prayer
developed twice as many complications as those with prayer.  Please help me understand
those results in light of your comments regarding "every valid scientific study"  showing
prayer is ineffective.

I know I am a Christian, and I sure hope your opinion of me still stands ... "I am
intelligent!"

Thank you and God bless you!

[StPatrick]

Here is an actual study on the effects of prayer on medical patients:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

Please link us to yours.

[Ashe]

Can you show us the study in which the results for prayer held up through repeated trials?

[DL]

A survey was done in 1997 by the "American Academy of Family Physicians" it showed 99% of doctors believe a relationship exists between faith and physical healing.  It was bolstered by a California study on the effects of prayer on recovery from heart problems.  About 200 patients were assigned to Christians who prayed for them, while an equal number had no known prayers.  Neither group was aware of the prayers (or lack of prayer).  Those who received no prayer developed twice as many complications as those with prayer.  Please help me understand those results in light of your comments regarding "every valid scientific study"  showing prayer is ineffective.

Here is a report on the study by Harris et al that you are referencing:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000201/tips/13.html

The problem is that, on closer analysis of the study, the methodology is flawed. Therefore, the results are not valid. This article will help you to understand the problems in the study:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_2_24/ai_60302608/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1

What we find is that in every case where an effect is claimed, subsequent analysis shows no effect. Here is another example of the problem:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.12/prayer.html

Any claim of a beneficial effect of prayer is later found to be invalid.

This page will provide you with more information:

http://godisimaginary.com/i2.htm

Does this help you to understand?

Faced with reality, what is your reaction? Do you accept that praying to a God is no different than praying to a milk jug, and therefore that God is imaginary? Why or why not?

[Ambassador Pony]

bm even though I suspect you will never hear from him/her again