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Offline pjohneyp

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2009, 09:32:41 AM »
Dkit,

I like the word Magic man in the sky.

The prophecy about America, can not be about Rome.  Rome exists till today.
 REV 18:9"When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. 10Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry:
   " 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
      O Babylon, city of power!
   In one hour your doom has come!

Only nuclear bomb can doom a country with in one hour.

Rev.18:11"The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more—

The world's largest consumer is America not Rome.

 Rev. 18:21Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said:
   "With such violence
      the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
      never to be found again.

Rome not under the sea but America will.

Because the morale of America is in ditches now, Economy is in crisis, what is next????

Do not think that I am anti American. What I see in the bible, I said, thats all.

When Noah preached 120 years about the flood, people in his time shouted at him and said the things what you are saying today.



Offline Omen

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2009, 09:36:45 AM »
Pjohneyp, why should we believe anything you claim?

How is your claim any different from a lunatic in an asylum talking about fairies and leprechauns?
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Offline Dkit

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2009, 10:05:17 AM »
Dkit,

I like the word Magic man in the sky.

<snipped prophecy and interpretation>

Rome may exist today, but the Roman Empire does not.  You are still not putting the verses in context/time period in which there were written.  America has had it's ups and downs, along with other countries.  We will recover.

There is no evidence for a worldwide flood, a man named Noah or his boat.  It's just a story.

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Asserting without evidence will get you exactly nowhere.


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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2009, 10:11:43 AM »
Dkit, I think it's nice that you have a pet project for your spare time.

I'd advise you not to assume this individual has much education about much of the subject matter being discussed. Just some inculcation any kid can pick up at a madrassa-type building.

Start at the bottom.

Something, like: "Do you understand that an empire called the Roman empire existed?"
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Dkit

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2009, 10:15:03 AM »
Quote
Dkit, I think it's nice that you have a pet project for your spare time.
I'm a glutton for punishment, I guess.   ;D

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Offline screwtape

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2009, 11:29:57 AM »
It is interesting and maybe important to bring that up.  When I read pjohneyp's posts I thought, "I'm not wasting my time."  He struck me as too far gone, too ignorant and incapable of a conversation.  He is fucked at the fundamental level.  But ultimately, he is a sterling example of the kind of hammerhead that needs to be brought around.  I am glad that at least someone has the patience for it, because I do not.
What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline pjohneyp

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2009, 11:46:35 AM »
Noah was a moron to the public in his time. That's why he couldn't get any body from the public other than his own family in the ship. His family believed in him and got saved. Some times, being a  moron is safer than being self proclaimed intelligent atheist.

Offline Dkit

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2009, 11:51:26 AM »
And that thought supports your claims how?
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Offline screwtape

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2009, 11:56:02 AM »
Noah was a moron to the public in his time. That's why he couldn't get any body from the public other than his own family in the ship. His family believed in him and got saved. Some times, being a  moron is safer than being self proclaimed intelligent atheist.

So you are striving to be the best moron you can be?  I can see you have been working very hard at it and it has really been paying off.  If there was a moron competition, I am sure you would get a medal. 



What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline pjohneyp

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2009, 11:59:46 AM »
Thank you.  But God is listening you.  By insulting me, you are insulting Him in reality.

Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2009, 12:05:24 PM »
Blasphemy is a victimless crime.
Faith is nice but doubt will get you an education!
Theism: the virus that infects then disables the brain's bullshit detector
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Offline dmnemaine

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2009, 12:09:40 PM »
Thank you.  But God is listening you.  By insulting me, you are insulting Him in reality.

This is called SPAG.

Offline Omen

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2009, 01:28:11 PM »
Noah was a moron to the public in his time. That's why he couldn't get any body from the public other than his own family in the ship. His family believed in him and got saved. Some times, being a  moron is safer than being self proclaimed intelligent atheist.

There has never been a time period in which the earth was covered in its entirety by a body of water while humans have been around, evidence for such a thing simply does not exist and is contradicted by every single thing we know about physics and geology.
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Offline pjohneyp

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2009, 01:38:53 PM »
I do not know how true it is, but once I read in a magazine that Archaeologists found sea shells at the top of mount everest in India. If it is true, then it is the proof of the world flood. If there is any archaeologists in your group, let them find out with their department. I have no access to such department.

Offline Omen

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2009, 02:15:12 PM »
I do not know how true it is, but once I read in a magazine that Archaeologists found sea shells at the top of mount everest in India.

It is not a rare event or 'once' kind of thing, its normal to find rock formations on top of mountains that used to be below sea level.  It is what we know about geology, in that mountains form from the rising of the ground itself.  The mountains split the crust revealing the layers of rock underneath.

Quote
If it is true, then it is the proof of the world flood.

False.  If it is true, it is only relevant to that patch of earth having once been underwater for thousands of years.  The layers of deposits found in such cases are the results from thousands upon thousands of years of fossilization and layering that has been happening all over the world for hundreds of millions of years.

What that means is that the layering of despositing occured BEFORE the mountains rose themselves.  We know this because the mountain range is broken crust, the deposited layers are not uniform and are simply one or two layers amongst many others.  The layers themselves are seperated individually by such identifying features as gently lapping shore lines, foot prints of animals living in individual time periods, and even the fact that individual layers contain species solely isolated to those layers.

That distribution could have only occurred over a great span of time, seperated by the rise of the land and the depositing of individual layers of sediment.  An all encompassing flood would find it impossible to create multiple layers of sediment, each with its own significantly individualist features.

This is something most creationist forget to tell you or carefully 'omit'.

The sad reality here is that regardless if there is a god or not, this isn't evidence for your claim and whoever told you this in effect lied to you.

Quote
If there is any archaeologists in your group, let them find out with their department. I have no access to such department.

You don't need access to their departments, their are dozens of freely accessible libraries of knowledge all over the internet.  Not to mention in you're local library.  This knowledge isn't held in secret anywhere and it is easily studied/research for yourself.  It simply begs the question of why you didn't bother to do so?
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Offline Cycle4Fun

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2009, 02:23:10 PM »
I do not know how true it is, but once I read in a magazine that Archaeologists found sea shells at the top of mount everest in India. If it is true, then it is the proof of the world flood. If there is any archaeologists in your group, let them find out with their department. I have no access to such department.

Such ignorance!  This is introductory geology here.  Stuff you should learn in junior high school or freshman year.  There are sea shells on top of mountains and in deserts because at some point in the past they used to be covered by water.  The Himalayan Mountains were formed when the Indian subcontinent collided with Asia.  This collision of tectonic plates caused the seabed to rise.  The collision is still occurring causing the Himalayan Mountains to continue to rise.

Quote
What ultimately formed Mt. Everest, about 60 million years ago, was the rapid movement of India northward toward the continent of EuroAsia; Click here for a present-day map of the Indian subcontinent. India charged across the equator at rates of up to 15 cm/year, in the process closing an ocean named Tethys that had separated fragments of Pangea. This ocean is entirely gone today, although the sedimentary rocks that settled on its ocean floor and the volcanoes that fringed its edges remain to tell the tale of its existence.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/everest/earth/birth.html

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Offline Hermes

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2009, 03:00:55 PM »
I do not know how true it is, but once I read in a magazine that Archaeologists found sea shells at the top of mount everest in India. If it is true, then it is the proof of the world flood. If there is any archaeologists in your group, let them find out with their department. I have no access to such department.



Plate tectonics facepalm.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 03:02:33 PM by Hermes »
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Offline Jeeves

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2009, 11:20:15 PM »
When we are dreaming (especially lucidly) we can fly and we can make money appear or alleviate the need for money.  A dream can also feel very real.

Well one of the revelations of theism/Christianity is that life is like a dream.  The physical world is a dream world created by our consciousness.  Our consciousness on the other hand has no 'place' and no physical limitation.
<<SNIPPED BALANCE FOR BREVITY>>




Speaking of drugs, the true spiritual experience is exactly what drug takers are after.  Unfortunately any positive drug experience is temporary and can involve violent and unpleasant shifts between various states of consciousness.

Drug takers would do well to instead seek the spiritual path which can provide the joy they are seeking without the unpredictability, the briefness and the loss of control.




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Offline Jeeves

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2009, 12:01:30 AM »
I do not know how true it is, but once I read in a magazine that Archaeologists found sea shells at the top of mount everest in India. If it is true, then it is the proof of the world flood. If there is any archaeologists in your group, let them find out with their department. I have no access to such department.



Plate tectonics facepalm.

I've heard something like this. I've also heard that chariots were found in the bottom of the red sea formed in a line like they were convoyed. Interesting. There are also 2 cities that Archaeologists found that appeared to have evidence of being burned, supposedly around where Sodom and Gomorah were. 
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Offline Jeeves

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2009, 12:13:58 AM »
It's true, found in 1953.  A quick Google search pulled up all kinds of information. But, now it's debated as far as "how old is the earth"  If the millions of years old deal is true, then Mt. Everest started at the bottom of the ocean, then with plate tectonics "grew" into a mountain, that could explain the sea shells.

If it's caused by "the Great Flood" then that explains the shells too.

Consequently, when the earth was created could've been millions of years ago.

"And God separated the waters...."

Either way, with sea shells lasting through the massive earthquake that would've formed the mountains, it's odd that the shells would just be sitting around like that.
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2009, 07:35:37 AM »
No, the flood doesn't explain the shells at the top of mount everest.

The shells and other underwater sediments are layered. That happens underwater over long periods of time. Floods don't do that.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Hermes

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2009, 12:41:24 PM »
I do not know how true it is, but once I read in a magazine that Archaeologists found sea shells at the top of mount everest in India. If it is true, then it is the proof of the world flood. If there is any archaeologists in your group, let them find out with their department. I have no access to such department.



Plate tectonics facepalm.

I've heard something like this. I've also heard that chariots were found in the bottom of the red sea formed in a line like they were convoyed. Interesting. There are also 2 cities that Archaeologists found that appeared to have evidence of being burned, supposedly around where Sodom and Gomorah were.

First off, Pony is right about the shells.

As for your comment on the Red Sea parting, it is not based on facts -- just as Jewish slaves in Egypt were not based on facts.  (Unless you want to say that the existence of Jews, Egypt, slaves, and the Red Sea are sufficient.)

I suggest that you look into your chariot wheels, and see what the current level headed assessment is.  History and archeology can be quite enlightening when they are based on serious investigations as opposed to wishful thinking.

Now, back to the flood.

As I've mentioned elsewhere...

The Noah story is a great way to demonstrate how, given the right conditions, you can get a human being to believe anything.

Along those lines, a Noah's Ark summary;

1. It's a rip-off of The Epic of Gilgamesh;

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/

2. No world wide flood ... thus, no Noah and family surviving a world wide flood.  Why?  Civilizations that were supposedly wiped out by the flood ... didn't notice!

3. Maybe it's a local flood?  If that substantial change was OK, then why treat the story seriously at all?

4. Maybe it's metaphorical?  Really?  I'm all ears.  Make it make sense as metaphor.  What does it teach?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 12:46:14 PM by Hermes »
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Offline KNOX

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #80 on: March 22, 2009, 10:18:58 PM »
bm
I argue that Maths works because God invented it to keep everything in order.

Offline ksm

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2009, 12:34:59 AM »
It's true, found in 1953.  A quick Google search pulled up all kinds of information. But, now it's debated as far as "how old is the earth"  If the millions of years old deal is true, then Mt. Everest started at the bottom of the ocean, then with plate tectonics "grew" into a mountain, that could explain the sea shells.

If it's caused by "the Great Flood" then that explains the shells too.

Consequently, when the earth was created could've been millions of years ago.

"And God separated the waters...."

Either way, with sea shells lasting through the massive earthquake that would've formed the mountains, it's odd that the shells would just be sitting around like that.

I take it you did not bother to read Omen's quality post?

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=4317.msg107938#msg107938

If you had you would have failed to make errors such those you have written above.

Offline velkyn

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2009, 01:29:47 PM »
It's true, found in 1953.  A quick Google search pulled up all kinds of information. But, now it's debated as far as "how old is the earth"  If the millions of years old deal is true, then Mt. Everest started at the bottom of the ocean, then with plate tectonics "grew" into a mountain, that could explain the sea shells.
If it's caused by "the Great Flood" then that explains the shells too.
Consequently, when the earth was created could've been millions of years ago.
"And God separated the waters...."
Either way, with sea shells lasting through the massive earthquake that would've formed the mountains, it's odd that the shells would just be sitting around like that.

I do hope you don't randomly believe everything you read on the internet.  If you do, you are making a very grave mistake. 

Earthquakes don't form mountains.  They are a symptom of the process.  You should also read up on how fossils form.  Why would it be "odd" that the shells were part of the mountains?  The shells were in place as the area was uplifted.  There was water for a while but then it became higher than the sources that fed it.  The animals inside the shells died and the shells remained in place because there were few catastrophic events to dislodge them.  They were eventually covered in other sediment and that protected them even further.   

If there was a flood, we should find anything but shells on top of mountains, right?  There should be remains of humans and animals trying to get away from your genocidal God.  Those aren't there. 

EDIT: for clarity
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 09:02:42 AM by velkyn »
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Offline Jeeves

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2009, 11:29:53 PM »
It's true, found in 1953.  A quick Google search pulled up all kinds of information. But, now it's debated as far as "how old is the earth"  If the millions of years old deal is true, then Mt. Everest started at the bottom of the ocean, then with plate tectonics "grew" into a mountain, that could explain the sea shells.
If it's caused by "the Great Flood" then that explains the shells too.
Consequently, when the earth was created could've been millions of years ago.
"And God separated the waters...."
Either way, with sea shells lasting through the massive earthquake that would've formed the mountains, it's odd that the shells would just be sitting around like that.

I do hope you don't randomly believe everything you read on the internet.  If you do, you are making a very grave mistake. 

Earthquakes don't form mountains.  They are a symptom of the process.  You should also read up on how fossils form.  Why would it be "odd" that the shells were part of the mountains?  The shells were in place as the area was uplifted.  There was water for a while but then it became higher than the sources that fed it.  The animals inside the shells died and the shells remained in place because there was little catastrophic event to dislodge them.  They were eventually covered in other sediment and that protected them even further.   

If there was a flood, we should find anything but shells on top of mountains, right?  There should be remains of humans and animals trying to get away from your genocidal God.  Those aren't there. 


Don't presume I don't know anything about anything. Must I spell every single detail of every single thought I have out for you?  It's already known that they would be fossils, and earthquakes do form moutains. It is odd that the shells would be sitting around like that. Any of them surviving a massive earthquake that would've even begun to develop the tectonic plates into a mountain is strange to me.
If you'd care to pay any amout of attention to anyone you would've noticed I didn't state anything for or against the "Great Flood".

No I didn't read Omens post, sorry I didn't know he had one.


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Offline Crocoduck

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #84 on: March 24, 2009, 05:50:31 AM »
three words to dispell the flood story....


three toed sloth.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #85 on: March 24, 2009, 09:19:17 AM »
It's true, found in 1953.  A quick Google search pulled up all kinds of information. But, now it's debated as far as "how old is the earth"  If the millions of years old deal is true, then Mt. Everest started at the bottom of the ocean, then with plate tectonics "grew" into a mountain, that could explain the sea shells.
If it's caused by "the Great Flood" then that explains the shells too.
Consequently, when the earth was created could've been millions of years ago.
"And God separated the waters...."
Either way, with sea shells lasting through the massive earthquake that would've formed the mountains, it's odd that the shells would just be sitting around like that.
I do hope you don't randomly believe everything you read on the internet.  If you do, you are making a very grave mistake. 
Earthquakes don't form mountains.  They are a symptom of the process.  You should also read up on how fossils form.  Why would it be "odd" that the shells were part of the mountains?  The shells were in place as the area was uplifted.  There was water for a while but then it became higher than the sources that fed it.  The animals inside the shells died and the shells remained in place because there was little catastrophic event to dislodge them.  They were eventually covered in other sediment and that protected them even further.   
If there was a flood, we should find anything but shells on top of mountains, right?  There should be remains of humans and animals trying to get away from your genocidal God.  Those aren't there. 
Don't presume I don't know anything about anything. Must I spell every single detail of every single thought I have out for you?  It's already known that they would be fossils, and earthquakes do form moutains. It is odd that the shells would be sitting around like that. Any of them surviving a massive earthquake that would've even begun to develop the tectonic plates into a mountain is strange to me.
If you'd care to pay any amout of attention to anyone you would've noticed I didn't state anything for or against the "Great Flood".

No I didn't read Omens post, sorry I didn't know he had one.

I presume nothing.  You have presented me with all the facts I need to know that you understand little about geology.  Earthquakes don't form mountains.  Never have, never will.  They are symptomatic of the forces that do create mountains.  Mountains are caused to form by more than one mechanism.  There is collision, subduction, thermal uplift, etc.  They all can cause earthquakes but they are not the same process.  Earthquakes can create scarps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fault_scarp  These are not mountains. 

The Himalayas are being formed by the collision of the Indian sub-continent with the Asian continent.  It is still going on.  There was a sea between the colliding plates called the Tethys Sea by modern geologists.  This sea was trapped by the collision and as it was being uplifted, sediment from other parts uplifted filled the sea.  This covered the sea life and formed fossils. This is also why salt deposits are found in the Himalayas.  This sea was cut off and dried up so we have the salt left over.  Salt deposits are also another great reason not to believe in some mythical flood.  Salt deposits are interlain with other sedimentary deposits which would be impossible if all sedimentary layers were lain down by one massive flood. There were no catastrophic earthquakes to disturb this so the fossils were uplifted with the rest of the colliding area into fold mountains.  This is why there are fossils in the Himalayas and other mountains. 

You may not have said anything directly about the Noachian Flood but you are parroting the claims of theists who claim that "great fountains" of water broke up the land and caused great earthquakes.  Earthquakes that we have no evidence for. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Hermes

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Re: An exchange with a Theologist ...
« Reply #86 on: March 24, 2009, 10:04:41 AM »
three words to dispell the flood story....

three toed sloth.

Well, duh, the kangaroos transported the slower animals and then became tired.  The last trek across the ocean really was a doozy -- hopping on the waves doesn't provide much support -- that's why there are only kangaroos in Australia.

[ leaps behind flame proof barrier ]
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer