Author Topic: Please help [#1014]  (Read 241 times)

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Offline DL

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Please help [#1014]
« on: February 01, 2009, 07:22:36 PM »
I am having trouble understanding my own religious views. First, I believe  
that God exists, or at least did at one point. However, for much the same  
reason as your skepticism, I believe there to be four possible states of  
God's existence. 1. He is willing to help mankind, but unable: meaning he  
is powerless. 2. He is able to help mankind but is unwilling: meaning he is  
malevolent. 3. He is both willing and able to help mankind but obviously  
doesn't: meaning he is evil (by the bible definition anyway). 4. He is  
unwilling and unable to help mankind: meaning he is for all intents and  
purposes, not here.

My question is simply what does this make me? I am not an atheist, as I  
believe that god must have existed at some point. I am not an agnostic  
because I do believe that the listed states of his existence can be proven  
over the benevolent theory. And I am not belonging to any religion I have  
been able to find as I don't believe god is good.

I have researched this extensively and haven't even found proof that others  
share my beliefs, much less who they might be. Any help you may be able to  
offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
[name]
[email]

Offline Tails_155

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Re: Please help [#1014]
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2009, 07:25:43 PM »
there's a thread about this, Hermes? Link? -multitasking-

There are titles for it... it may just be a Deist in some forms
Live! Learn! Laugh! Love! Lead!

I'm not all analysis, I like art, too: See?

Offline Hermes

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Re: Please help [#1014]
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2009, 08:23:14 PM »
I am having trouble understanding my own religious views. First, I believe  
that God exists, or at least did at one point. However, for much the same  
reason as your skepticism, I believe there to be four possible states of  
God's existence. 1. He is willing to help mankind, but unable: meaning he  
is powerless. 2. He is able to help mankind but is unwilling: meaning he is  
malevolent. 3. He is both willing and able to help mankind but obviously  
doesn't: meaning he is evil (by the bible definition anyway). 4. He is  
unwilling and unable to help mankind: meaning he is for all intents and  
purposes, not here.

Basically what you've discussed is the Problem of Evil;



Details: http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/arguments-for-atheism/the-problem-of-evil

Summary: There is no such thing as a deity that is all good, all knowing, and all powerful.  If there are any god(s), they lack one or more of those attributes.  The Christian god God is usually described as all good and all knowing and all powerful so either those who describe it like that are mistaken or it doesn't exist at all.

My question is simply what does this make me? I am not an atheist, as I  
believe that god must have existed at some point. I am not an agnostic  
because I do believe that the listed states of his existence can be proven  
over the benevolent theory. And I am not belonging to any religion I have  
been able to find as I don't believe god is good.

I run a poll on religious positions that covers both beliefs as well as claims of knowledge;

----------
What is your religious position?
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=833.0
----------

Theisms of various kinds are beliefs (or lack of belief in the case of atheism).

Gnostic and agnostic as well as other categories are are knowledge claims.

So, in my case I'm an agnostic atheist; I do not claim knowledge of deities existing or not, only that I believe there are none.

In your case, you seem to claim certainty (knowledge) that 'a god must have existed at some point ... can be proven'.  That would make you a gnostic.  Now, what kind of *gnostic* theist you are is the question.

The general categories that I track in my poll in the forums are;

Monotheist - One deity only.
Polytheist - More than one deity.
Pantheist - Everything is the deity.
Deist - A currently uninvolved deity existed or exists.
Henotheist - Worship one deity, but may acknowledge other deities.

You could be any one of those.

The Zoroastrians have two gods -- one good one evil -- that struggled with each other.  The Christians took up that concept along with quite a few others when that religion was created.

I have researched this extensively and haven't even found proof that others  
share my beliefs, much less who they might be. Any help you may be able to  
offer would be greatly appreciated.

Hope that was helpful.

Drop by the forums if you want to talk about this more.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer