Author Topic: god exits [#968]  (Read 517 times)

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Offline DL

god exits [#968]
« on: January 28, 2009, 12:00:36 AM »

Not because of your stupid videos, people are going to stop believing in god, you keep your comments to yourself. I do believe in god and if you don't, please answer these questions:

Where did life come from?

Where did monkeys come from?

Why do we have something that makes us feel, we all call soul?

If god invented all the nice nature things, you think the first thing he would create was a hairy man, dumb, animal we call monkey?

Depends on what you answer, he will be very sad if you just keep not believing in god, he has feelings too, he created such a nice planet for us and we are destroying it and polluting it and over THAT we don't believe in him? that's totally not fair, and you know that

Offline Hermes

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 12:49:21 AM »
Lots of questions.  Best thing is if you come to the forums if you want a complete answer.

Not because of your stupid videos, people are going to stop believing in god, you keep your comments to yourself.

As soon as Christians stop preaching to non-Christians and bringing Christianity into the public sphere, then you have a deal.  Till then, the answer is NO.

For what it's worth, the videos have lead to quite a few deconversions, and so far the only complaints that have been voiced by the former Christians is that they now have to deal with Christians who aren't willing to accept them for who they are.  Otherwise, the main comment we hear is 'thank you!'

I do believe in god and if you don't, please answer these questions:

I'll give it a try.

Where did life come from?

Other life.

Where did monkeys come from?

Other monkeys.

Why do we have something that makes us feel, we all call soul?

That's a trick question.  There are no souls!

If god invented all the nice nature things, you think the first thing he would create was a hairy man, dumb, animal we call monkey?

I don't have a deity of any kind, let alone more than one.  To me, your question doesn't seem to make much sense.

Depends on what you answer, he will be very sad if you just keep not believing in god, he has feelings too, he created such a nice planet for us and we are destroying it and polluting it and over THAT we don't believe in him? that's totally not fair, and you know that

Why not the Hindu gods?  There are more of them, so don't you think they would collectively feel worse about you not believing in them?

Now that I've answered your questions, here's a comment and a question for you;

I have noticed, as you may have as well, that there are Christians that do things in the name of Christianity that are negative.  Christians that promote bigotry and ignorance.  Christians that advocate actions that lead to harm and even death.  Christians that advocate not caring about this world and who want it to be destroyed in a polluted and fiery apocalypse.

If there were enough Christians that effectively dealt with those problems, I would not have any concerns.  Believe as you want.  As far as I would be concerned, the real world problems would be solved.

Unfortunately, that is not the world we are in.  Most Christians aren't doing nearly enough.   Many unfortunately are actively promoting these negative goals -- from paying money passively to going out and doing these negative actions themselves.  Some of the strongest advocates for those negative actions are the leaders and congregants of the larger Christian churches and organizations; this is not a problem with a few fringe groups or eccentric cult leaders.

Too many Christians not only do not take responsibility, they are leading the charge for these negative actions.  They justify bigotry and ignorance, they justify actions that result in the deaths of others that could be easily avoided.

As a responsible person, someone who cares about the world and the future of humanity, I have to act.  Even if it is not my fault that these Christians are doing harm, it is my responsibility to do something positive.  You can consider it a moral obligation.  If that means that I have to hold up a mirror so that my fellow humans look at what they believe, then I'll take that modest step.  Maybe that will be enough to drain the air out of some of those bad ideas?

My question to you is not what you believe, but what are you doing about the acts your fellow Christians perform in the name of Christianity that spread hate, bigotry, ignorance, pain, and death?








Edit: Corrected spelling error.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 08:38:03 AM by Hermes »
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Tails_155

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2009, 02:33:40 AM »
normally I wouldn't remark, but Hermes, did you mean deconversions, not deconversations?
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Offline gold_digging_ants

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2009, 03:48:07 AM »

Not because of your stupid videos, people are going to stop believing in god, you keep your comments to yourself.

Psst, buddy, it's called freedom of speech.  I can say whatever I like and you can't do anything about it.  Let's try this.  "The Bible is bullshit."  "Christianity is for adults who need someone to tuck them in at night".  "Religion is fucking up our planet".  "Theists should keep their mouths shut and their pathetic opinions to themselves."  "I deny the Holy Spirit".  "Even if the Christian god existed, I wouldn't worship that sadistic fucker."

Now, I live in a country where the internet is monitored.  *checks*  No, the police haven't come to get me yet.  I'll be sure to let you know if they do, though.

I do believe in god and if you don't, please answer these questions:

Where did life come from?

I don't know, I'm not a scientist.  But I don't think I need to have the answers to all the questions.  The answers that science have, or are working on, are based on evidence and what we can observe, which to me seems like a much more intellectually honest way to go about things.  It's a childish instinct to feel the need to know everything.

And let's presume a god had to have made the world- let's say the Christian god, for the sake of it.  If everything had to be created (which is the usual way this argument is constructed), then who or what created the Christian god?  Let's say Allah.  Then who created Allah?  Let's say Buddah.  Then who created Buddah?  Let's say Zeus.  Who created Zeus?  Let's say the wad of hair I should really pull out from my hairbrush. Who or what created that?

... I could go on forever, and there'd never be a solution to this problem. 

Where did monkeys come from?

Evolutionary theory would seem to suggest that monkeys (whatever primate you mean by that) came from some simpler primate, which came from (spanning back an inordinately long period) the common ancestor to primates, which came from the common ancestor to mammals.

Why do we have something that makes us feel, we all call soul?

We "all" call it a soul?  I don't.  I call it my brain- that's where emotions originate.  Some people, (mostly) speaking metaphorically, say emotions come from the heart.  Some civilisations believed that emotions came from the stomach.

Your consensus falls away without a great deal of thought.

If god invented all the nice nature things, you think the first thing he would create was a hairy man, dumb, animal we call monkey?

How should I know?  The "god" notion is bullshit and I don't subscribe to it.  I can't speak for crazy people and their stupid ideas.

And besides, doesn't your stupid idea book say that the first thing created was the heavens and the earth?

Depends on what you answer, he will be very sad if you just keep not believing in god, he has feelings too, he created such a nice planet for us and we are destroying it and polluting it and over THAT we don't believe in him? that's totally not fair, and you know that

And the invisible leprechaun under my bed will cry himself to sleep every night because you don't capitalise the "g" on your god's name, even though you think your god is holy. 

Objectively demonstrate that your god is real, that it has feelings, that it cares about us, and that your god is the god you are making claims for (supports the claims of your holy book and the doctrine you subscribe to). Then I'll think about considering the feelings of your god.  Until then, I'll just continue to mock people who try to make claims for their imaginary friend.

If you don't like the fact that we're destroying and polluting the earth, then do something about it.  Don't waste your time trying to defend your imaginary sky-daddy, do something that will actually make a difference (in a way that can be objectively perceived).  Besides, if your precious god is so powerful, why would he need you to defend him?
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Online Airyaman

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2009, 05:00:10 AM »
Did anyone notice the title of the thread?

"god exits [#968]"

I think that is better than the content of the OP.
If you are following God why can I still see you?

Offline gold_digging_ants

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2009, 05:07:31 AM »
 :D Oh, classic.  I wish I'd spotted that.
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But the Bible has so many uses! After all, that very thin paper is perfect for origami, for starting fires, for using as a replacement coffee filter...
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Offline StPatrick

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 07:16:06 AM »
Indeed, Airyaman, if God exists, he left the building long ago.
If we come together and do not fight over religion, class and borders then we hold the key to a peaceful world. There are two possible futures in store; either a March of power and greed or a March of a unified human race.

Offline Hermes

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 08:38:47 AM »
normally I wouldn't remark, but Hermes, did you mean deconversions, not deconversations?

Damn.  Corrected.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Tails_155

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 09:00:46 AM »
Did anyone notice the title of the thread?

"god exits [#968]"

I think that is better than the content of the OP.

I was going to ask "from where exactly does your god exit? or is to somewhere that he is exiting?"
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Offline Cycle4Fun

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2009, 01:09:36 PM »
I assume you are speaking about the Abrahamic god.  If so, then the title of your email was correct.  God did indeed exit the world.

The god you most likely believe in hasn't been seen since he showed his butt to an ancient goat herder on top of a mountain in a backwater part of the world.  Strangely, god has left no evidence that it even exists.
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Offline DL

Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 07:35:42 PM »
OP responds via email:

---

You don't know that.

I don't know it either, we can't go back billions of years to see what happened so please just stop ok.

Here is what I am sure of:

All living things start with a cell, to form a mountain you need to start with one cell, earth is a living thing, it started with one cell, cells come from somewhere, in this case, someone or something bigger and smarter placed the first cell, from then on, it all went by itself.

Life does not come from nowhere, something had to place the first cell, and that something is what we all know as god and you might be asking yourself:

Where did god come from?

God came from nowhere, he always existed, I know it sounds impossible but it sounds impossible because we (humans) believe in time, we believe in months, years, weeks and all that, for god there is no time, humans invented time and we are soooo used to it, that now we cannot say something always existed but that is not a reason to not believe in god.

Offline Hermes

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 08:50:09 PM »
You don't know that.

I don't know it either, we can't go back billions of years to see what happened so please just stop ok.

Yet, you do know it.  You titled your original message;

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"God exists"

So, to say now that you are somehow not judging what you know of reality is disingenuous.

I also judge, but I am honest enough to admit it and to be willing to talk about where I am right or wrong.  Meanwhile, you ignored my entire response to you and decided instead to preach at me as if I were a little child.  If that is your way of talking, I can do the same.  Correct?

Here is what I am sure of:

All living things start with a cell, to form a mountain you need to start with one cell, earth is a living thing, it started with one cell, cells come from somewhere, in this case, someone or something bigger and smarter placed the first cell, from then on, it all went by itself.

Life does not come from nowhere, something had to place the first cell,

The universe.

and that something is what we all know as god

Nope.  You assert a deity exists.  I say to you bluntly and humbly; show me.

If you can not, your claims mean nothing and you are just being a hypocrite in painting us with a brush earlier when it would have been more suited to use that brush on yourself.

and you might be asking yourself:

Where did god come from?

People who built on animism.

God came from nowhere, he always existed, I know it sounds impossible but it sounds impossible because we (humans) believe in time, we believe in months, years, weeks and all that, for god there is no time, humans invented time and we are soooo used to it, that now we cannot say something always existed but that is not a reason to not believe in god.

Where did the universe come from? 

It always existed.

Can you do better?  If you can -- if you can toss out your false humility and admit what you know for sure and actually admit what you do not know yet -- come to the forums.  Ignorance is not a blemish on you.  Willful ignorance, though, is.

If you can not do better, if you insist on asserting you know the truth of reality and then coming up with nothing but an assertion of your opinion, then do not come.  We already have people who spread willful ignorance thickly.  People who don't think we landed on the moon, or that they can cite a verse out of a book and dismiss the rest of human knowledge.   Can you do better?  Could you have more intellectual integrity than them?
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Astreja

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 11:51:55 PM »
All living things start with a cell...

Not exactly.  To the best of my knowledge, living things actually start with carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen in the form of self-replicating organic molecules.  Eventually we get DNA and RNA, and then we get the cells.

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Life does not come from nowhere, something had to place the first cell...
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Where did god come from?  God came from nowhere, he always existed.

Congratulations!  You have just committed the logical fallacy of special pleading.  You cannot assert something and then make exceptions to your own assertion.

You must now provide testable scientific evidence that your god actually exists and that it "always existed", or you must retract the claim "Life does not come from nowhere".
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Offline Tails_155

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Re: god exits [#968]
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2009, 12:38:37 AM »
all this aside... since when are mountains made of cells?
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