Author Topic: The big bang theory is bs!  (Read 19704 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline LiL aNgEl

The big bang theory is bs!
« on: July 30, 2008, 10:49:18 PM »
Think about it, how can something be created out of nothing? It can't. There has to be some form of life or matter for something to be made. For me, God making the universe is easier to believe and think about rather than everything to be created one day just at random. It's mainly most of the scientists and athiests who believe this. God made science and he can just as well take it away too. I know there are going to be non-believers and others who are going to try to take pieces of what I just typed and turn it into something that makes me sound foolish. So please dont do that because it will make you look foolish as well.

Offline Ananukia

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1663
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • I wear no mask.
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 10:57:02 PM »
So something can't be made out of anything...except when god does it.

This is full of fail.
        Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
    Where flap the tatters of the King,
    Must die unheard in

        Dim Carcosa.

Offline xphobe

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5364
  • Darwins +12/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • the truth is out there
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 10:59:22 PM »
Foolish, no.  I would say Naive.

You've thought up a rule for yourself that "something can not be created out of nothing".  Don't know how you decided on this idea, but no matter.

Then you immediately turn around and postulate a God.  Well, was God created out of nothing?  If so, then who created God?  On the other hand, if God always existed, why is that easier to believe than a universe that always existed?

We can see the Universe.  We can't see God.  So it seems like you're adding at least one extra unnecessary unprovable step.  Maybe more.  Maybe an infinity of them.

By the way, welcome to the New Improved WWGHA Forum!
I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is gonna be so pissed when they find out...

Offline LiL aNgEl

Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 11:02:24 PM »
God wasnt created, he was always here. His mind is so much more complex than ours, therefore, its too hard to imagine him always being here. We just have to accept the fact that was and move on.

Offline StPatrick

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1273
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • The patron saint of WWGHA
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 11:05:07 PM »
1. Go read what the Big Bang Theory actually says.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang_theory

2. Bunk.  If you claim that God can exist without a cause, why then can't the universe?
If we come together and do not fight over religion, class and borders then we hold the key to a peaceful world. There are two possible futures in store; either a March of power and greed or a March of a unified human race.

Offline xphobe

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5364
  • Darwins +12/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • the truth is out there
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 11:05:53 PM »
The Universe wasnt created, it was always here. It is so much more complex than we are, therefore, its too hard to imagine it always being here. We just have to accept the fact that was and move on.

See, I can do that too.  But I've eliminated one unimaginable thing.  Your way has to deal with both a Universe AND a God.  My way is simpler.
I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is gonna be so pissed when they find out...

Offline LiL aNgEl

Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2008, 11:06:35 PM »
the universe has a purpose. its for us to live in it.

Offline xphobe

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5364
  • Darwins +12/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • the truth is out there
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2008, 11:07:58 PM »
I'd agree with that.  It would suck if its purpose were NOT for us to live in it.  Where would we go?
I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is gonna be so pissed when they find out...

Offline Codswallop

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1294
  • Darwins +1/-0
  • Cod helps those who help themselves.
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2008, 11:11:02 PM »
LiL Angel! You said BS! How vulgar. I hate to see such language in one so young. Do you actually take eucharist with that mouth?

Unless of course, you typically say that "BS" stands for "Ben Stein." That's what I do.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
             --Gene Wilder as The Waco Kid, Blazing Saddles

Offline Airyaman

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4149
  • Darwins +15/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Alignment: True Neutral
    • Moving Beyond Faith
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2008, 11:14:31 PM »
God wasnt created, he was always here (or he was created by man long ago). His mind is so much more complex than ours (although he was made by man), therefore, its too hard to imagine him always being here. We just have to accept pretend the fact that was it happened that way (cause thinking hurts my head) and move on.

There ya go.
If you are following God why can I still see you?

Offline Codswallop

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1294
  • Darwins +1/-0
  • Cod helps those who help themselves.
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2008, 11:19:59 PM »
Yeah, "created by man." Remember those words. The good sense is starting to poke through.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
             --Gene Wilder as The Waco Kid, Blazing Saddles

Offline Eschaton

Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2008, 11:20:55 PM »
Without much exertion, one rather suspects, could most forumners comprehensively refute your argument (if such it may be called), but how much more succinctly and tersely put by Jonathan Miller (from 2:30):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIxWcVXRxjU&feature=related[/youtube]

Addendum:

The concluding segments may be found below








« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 11:25:27 PM by Infidel Muhammad »
It is an absurdity to believe that the Deity has human passions, and one of the lowest of human passions, a restless appetite for applause.

David Hume

Offline Xia DeVinna

Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2008, 11:24:52 PM »
It's odd seeing a theist deny the big bang, because I'm so used to seeing them use it to support a creator.  

Offline Rainier22

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Now lies the Earth all Danae to the stars
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2008, 11:34:52 PM »
Lil Angel, I try not to spend much time in threads that will go nowhere.  However, for whatever reason, you seem like the kind of person that may have some curiosity or questioning.

StPatrick already has the basic argument I would provide, but it could be a bit more in depth.

We as humans like to form our theories on the universe on our own little perceptions.  We anthropomorphize everything.

The universe does not work like our brains say it should - like we're used to on Earth.  For example, we think of everything with a beginning and an end.  On the small scale, things occupy multiple places at the same time.  I can jump out of a plane before ever taking off.  Or, I can jump out of a plane and take off at the exact same time.  That's how things operate on the small scale.  The beginning of the universe was a singularity, a very, very small thing therefore operating on the laws of quantum physics. 

And history, I think we can agree that the you 10 seconds ago does not exist anymore.  Only the you now does.  But then where did the you 10 seconds ago go?  Where did the you now come from?  We generally operate on causation, but things don't need cause many times.  Imagine a massive computer program designed to do a certain thing when in contact with certain things.  When the program sees a dog, it will say "dog."  The ways the computer will react are already there, just not expressed at the given time.  Every expression the computer gives exists at the exact same time.  It just appears differently according to what it is in contact with.  That being said, the various stages of everything may very well exist all at the same time. 

When you think of "God," you insert a mysterious, confusing, ultra complex thing that goes past cause, effect, and anything observable.  Do you not?  We just have to accept the fact that something out there in the universe is mysterious, confusing, complex, and beyond our comprehension at least at the moment.  I completely agree with that last sentence.  You inserted the word God out of - I'm guessing here - Americana.  In America, God is the mystery behind the universe.  I don't think we need to name it though.  There is no reason to think it is "God."  There is no reason to think there is a magic tooth fairy.  Isn't it entirely reasonable to assume that there is more out there that we can't perceive - and that may include beings much more powerful than us - in the universe?  You said so.  I think so.  Then, if we can't perceive it, or know what it is, then I say we cut out the word "God."  I'll confess that it's probably not a tooth fairy if you'll confess it's not "God."  We don't know - we can't see it! 

All we know for sure is that the universe operates in funny, amazing, completely awesome ways that we don't understand - just like many natural things here on Earth.  No one understands tornadoes fully.  Why are there massive chunks of the inside of the planet spewing up in specific locations?  That's confusing!  But we don't say it's God.  We don't say it's the tooth fairy.  We say we don't know. 

Now, in our confession that we are ignorant, we can make guesses.  We need to test them though.  Your guess is God.  Well, we can go through so many different problems with that guess.  God is a loving, caring creature.  God created the universe, and his design is evident.  He created galaxies for example.  Galaxies are hundreds of billions of miles wide.  They are beyond comprehension in their scale.  God created them, put them in motion, and then...


And now many of them are colliding at millions of mph.  Then we just simply look at the animal kingdom and how it relates to a blissful, loving, caring God...  We have beautiful animals coexisting with each other peacefully, except we don't.  They murder each other just to have enough food to live!  In fact, many animals are designed to be extremely deadly.  I took care of tarantulas for quite a few years, and they are not designed to coexist peacefully with anything! 



The whole loving god as a designer thing just doesn't seem to work out.  Maybe we can try other guesses though, and see if they work.
22

Offline 7deadlysins

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Gummi envy
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2008, 12:18:05 AM »
Think about it, how can something be created out of nothing? It can't. There has to be some form of life or matter for something to be made.

Why doesn't god need to be made from something?

Quote
For me, God making the universe is easier to believe and think about rather than everything to be created one day just at random.

Easier eh ? Well we wouldn't want you to strain yourself by thinking rationally


Quote
It's mainly most of the scientists and athiests who believe this. God made science and he can just as well take it away too.


No, I don't see that happening somehow. The amount of things that would need to be taken away.

Quote
I know there are going to be non-believers and others who are going to try to take pieces of what I just typed and turn it into something that makes me sound foolish. So please dont do that because it will make you look foolish as well.

Well I don't feel very foolish. You are looking more ignorant than foolish to be honest.

Do you have a shred of evidence to back up anything you have said ? The bible doesn't count as evidence.
Don't take life so seriously, it's not permanent.

If your parents never had kids chances are neither will you.

Offline CosmicScherzo

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 411
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • What would Jesus brew?
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2008, 01:20:12 AM »
the universe has a purpose. its for us to live in it.

Given that 99.999999% of the universe would kill you instantly, it's remarkably ill appointed for that purpose.
"What claim has your piety on my deference?"

Offline Rainier22

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Now lies the Earth all Danae to the stars
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2008, 01:22:55 AM »
the universe has a purpose. its for us to live in it.

Given that 99.999999% of the universe would kill you instantly, it's remarkably ill appointed for that purpose.
Oh man.  That made me laugh.   ;D  Are you British?  You should be British.  Let's get this man English citizenship. 

I didn't realize your avatar has a picture of galaxies colliding.  If you would have shown up sooner I could have used your avatar as an example in my post.
22

Offline Omen

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5955
  • Darwins +105/-15
  • One of the fucking bad guys; not friendly, tiger!
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2008, 07:03:49 AM »
Think about it, how can something be created out of nothing? It can't.

False.  The big bang theory contains nothing that states,"Something came from nothing."

Before we can continue, you must either correct yourself or demonstrate otherwise.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline john

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • All hail Wilson
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2008, 08:37:55 AM »
I am sort of playing off the video IM posted rather than the OP:

Let us suppose that this God, composed entirely of that which is not of the observable universe, exists somewhere outside it, such that He escapes the requirement of cause.  The purpose and being of such a God would necessarily be in conflict.  By existing outside of things that exist, his purpose is, therefore, not to exist.  To recognize his being, therefore, is to violate this intention.

How do we resolve this conflict?  If we project onto this idea of ethereal otherness the character and person of the Abrahamic (Christian, Jewish, Islamic) God, the conflict is instantly resolved.  The Abrahamic God is Yahweh - "I am".  His character is that of pure intent.  Intent is everything to Yahweh, to the extent that He takes the extraordinary step of forbidding statues or images to be made of Him as a constant reminder that for Yahweh, intent trumps being.

It would seem, therefore, that to insist upon his non-existence is the ultimate expression of respect for the intentions of Yahweh.  Anything else is idolatry.  There is, ultimately, no difference between a statue and an idea of a god-person, or a name, flowing robes, etc.  Therefore, the only people who give Yahweh respect in the way that he actually wishes it are atheists, and anyone else is a heretic.
If anything can mean everything, then nothing can mean anything.
I can also be found at isgodimaginary.com

Offline tomthecool

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma: +163/-22
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2008, 09:02:48 AM »
the universe has a purpose. its for us to live in it.
Why is the universe so HUGE and OLD if its only purpose is for one species to live on one little planet orbiting a typical star, in a typical galaxy, where human life will probably only exist for a few million years?

Also, as other have said:
The universe must have "come from nothing".... but God always existed?
If the only logical explanation for why the universe exists is that it was somehow created, then God must have somehow been created.
If God could have always existed, then by that logic, the universe (or other universes, which caused our universe to form) could have always existed.

Throwing Goddidit into the answer proves nothing. Replace "God" with "Flying Spaghetti Monster" is just as logical.
Some say I am the cool Tom... others wouldn't.

Offline essgeeskee

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 494
  • Darwins +1/-0
  • Karma: +1,000,000/-223
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2008, 09:29:43 AM »
Think about it, how can something be created out of nothing? It can't. There has to be some form of life or matter for something to be made. For me, God making the universe is easier to believe and think about rather than everything to be created one day just at random. It's mainly most of the scientists and athiests who believe this. God made science and he can just as well take it away too. I know there are going to be non-believers and others who are going to try to take pieces of what I just typed and turn it into something that makes me sound foolish. So please dont do that because it will make you look foolish as well.

First off, how do you KNOW that God is a HE. To me, that is complete B.S.!! You have been brainwashed into believing that someone who probably doesn't even exist is a he.

Anyway, who said that something was created out of nothing? I don't think that's what the theory states.

At least people are willing to admit that the big bang is a "Theory" and not a fact beyond the shadow of a doubt. Anyway, who had died in the name of the "Big Bang" anyway?
Quote
"Follow your intuition!"

Offline Codswallop

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1294
  • Darwins +1/-0
  • Cod helps those who help themselves.
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2008, 09:34:13 AM »

First off, how do you KNOW that God is a HE. To me, that is complete B.S.!! You have been brainwashed into believing that someone who probably doesn't even exist is a he.


*YAWN*

We covered this elsewhere.<<<<<<Clicky<<<<<<

God is male, he has a penis and because he's God, his penis is huge. This is where the "Big Bang" comes from.

*YAWN*
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
             --Gene Wilder as The Waco Kid, Blazing Saddles

Offline Eschaton

Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2008, 09:57:42 AM »
The Abrahamic God is Yahweh - "I am".  His character is that of pure intent.  Intent is everything to Yahweh, to the extent that He takes the extraordinary step of forbidding statues or images to be made of Him as a constant reminder that for Yahweh, intent trumps being.

It would seem, therefore, that to insist upon his non-existence is the ultimate expression of respect for the intentions of Yahweh.  Anything else is idolatry.

Does not intention presuppose a concious mind, possessed of  logical thought and reason, thus establishing God's existence? 

Primitive idoloters the faithful may indeed be, but inconsistent they are not.
It is an absurdity to believe that the Deity has human passions, and one of the lowest of human passions, a restless appetite for applause.

David Hume

Offline john

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • All hail Wilson
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2008, 10:09:53 AM »
The Abrahamic God is Yahweh - "I am".  His character is that of pure intent.  Intent is everything to Yahweh, to the extent that He takes the extraordinary step of forbidding statues or images to be made of Him as a constant reminder that for Yahweh, intent trumps being.

It would seem, therefore, that to insist upon his non-existence is the ultimate expression of respect for the intentions of Yahweh.  Anything else is idolatry.

Does not intention presuppose a concious mind, possessed of  logical thought and reason, thus establishing God's existence? 

Primitive idoloters the faithful may indeed be, but inconsistent they are not.

A conscious mind is suggested by intention, but that is because the only intention of which we have direct evidence arises from conscious minds.  If God can pull off existing without actually being anywhere, then intention without thought should be a piece of cake for him.
If anything can mean everything, then nothing can mean anything.
I can also be found at isgodimaginary.com

Offline Eschaton

Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2008, 10:29:51 AM »
John

Two variables arise here:

Is conciousness possible without mind?

Can God exist beyond space and time?

Assuredly not.

Almost invariably at this point of discussion I experience a dizzying sensation coming on.

*Thump*.

As not for whom the siren sounds.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 10:35:01 AM by Infidel Muhammad »
It is an absurdity to believe that the Deity has human passions, and one of the lowest of human passions, a restless appetite for applause.

David Hume

Offline john

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • All hail Wilson
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2008, 12:10:06 PM »
It's OK, IM, don't worry.

(splashes ice water on IM)

God doesn't exist.  This is just a thought exercise about the implications of him being the one singular thing he's supposed to be.  Even if he were nothing else other than his own essential nature, his existence would be impossible.
If anything can mean everything, then nothing can mean anything.
I can also be found at isgodimaginary.com

Offline Freak

Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2008, 12:26:10 PM »
It's mainly most of the scientists and athiests who believe this.

Ya, and we'd be fools to think we should listen to scientists. I mean, come on, any idiot could design and build their own computer to post to this forum, but only LiL aNgEl has the raw mental power and training to understand Inflationary Big Bang theory. Surely she deduced that the proportional composition of different energy-density components of the universe requiring roughly 95% exotic forms was an achilles heal without a possible cogent solution.

Right, LiL aNgEl?
When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realised, the Lord doesn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

Offline xphobe

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5364
  • Darwins +12/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • the truth is out there
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2008, 01:20:26 PM »
Ya, and we'd be fools to think we should listen to scientists. I mean, come on, any idiot could design and build their own computer to post to this forum, but only LiL aNgEl has the raw mental power and training to understand Inflationary Big Bang theory. Surely she deduced that the proportional composition of different energy-density components of the universe requiring roughly 95% exotic forms was an achilles heal without a possible cogent solution.

Right, LiL aNgEl?

Quote from: Lil Angel
gluhrk?
I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is gonna be so pissed when they find out...

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2008, 03:22:45 PM »
Think about it, how can something be created out of nothing? It can't. There has to be some form of life or matter for something to be made. For me, God making the universe is easier to believe and think about rather than everything to be created one day just at random. It's mainly most of the scientists and athiests who believe this. God made science and he can just as well take it away too. I know there are going to be non-believers and others who are going to try to take pieces of what I just typed and turn it into something that makes me sound foolish. So please dont do that because it will make you look foolish as well.

golly, lil angel, the same one who snunk away from the other board so she didn't have to answer questions?

and I'm sure this has been done but I'll add again/  And then how was God created? 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/