Author Topic: The big bang theory is bs!  (Read 21163 times)

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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #580 on: November 01, 2011, 04:31:56 PM »
Rats. I never got the answer to my single question about Hitler evading justice by repenting.

I shall store it away for a later date.  8)
If I understood Godexists correctly, Hitler would have had his sins 'covered' or taken on by Jesus as a result of being a Christian.  He never said why, but I gather the point is that there was no evasion of justice because someone paid for the sins, even if it wasn't Hitler.

Okay, I think I got my head around this whole thing finally.

Basically, according to his theology, every human who has ever lived and ever will live is headed straight for hell.  Doesn't matter what they do or don't do in their life, since it seems the mere fact of being born is enough to justify an eternal stay in hell.  The only way to avoid this fate is to repent and convert to the belief in Jesus as the savior who stands between humans and sin.  Anyone who converts is guaranteed a trip to heaven.  It also seems that he believes that a person will be judged based on their actual actions once they get to their eventual destinations, so a nonbeliever who committed horrible crimes will face worse punishment for that, and a believer who committed horrible crimes will get a lesser reward because of that (and a believer can earn a better place in heaven by doing good deeds as well).  This apparently satisfies his idea of justice since people still have to deal with what they did in life, only based on the context of whether they are a believer or not.

Personally, I find this to be one of the most hideous beliefs in an afterlife that I've ever heard about or read of.  It makes a travesty of the very idea of justice because it subordinates it to whether or not someone believes, and automatically assumes that everyone is automatically guilty and deserves only hell no matter what, unless they believe, in which case they deserve heaven no matter what.  I understand why it's set up this way, since the whole point is to promote belief, but whoever dreamed up this system was penny-wise and pound-foolish.  It gives no real benefit to actually doing good deeds since believers are assured of heaven anyway and nonbelievers are damned to hell regardless.  And I'll bet that "good deeds" are defined by the church, rather than by individuals, in any case.

Offline Astreja

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #581 on: November 01, 2011, 09:08:51 PM »
Ah, I see GE did read My essay before he danced off into the sunset...

Rather than let the child put its hand into the stove, and burn itself, God would prefere himself to burn, to save his child.

And yet, the god of Godexists does not allow itself to burn for every single being that it has endangered by its own malevolent actions... Only for the ones that agree to play its sick little human sacrifice game.  It is benevolent towards a few well-trained lap dogs, and merciless to the rest.

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That happened through Jesus Christ on the cross, who did die the death we all deserved because of our sins. And this message has reached that far, that even you, now, can know that you are on a highway to hell, but God loved you so much, that he did everything , so that you could be saved to go there. Despite this, you prefere ignore his offer of salvation, and still want to acuse God of sending us to hell ?

I do not want to be saved from eternal torture unless literally every victim of Biblegod -- Believers and nonbelievers alike, past, present and future -- is also given sanctuary regardless of what they said, did or believed during their lifetimes.

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God has warned us in regard of the risk of going to hell, and has presented us a solution. How can he be blamed, if you ignore his gospel ?

Simple:  I do not think the "gospel" is the work of a sane, emotionally balanced human, let alone a god.  I also think it's pretty damn stupid to trust the alleged "warnings" and "solutions" of any being that would create a hell in the first place.
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Offline jetson

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #582 on: November 01, 2011, 09:26:40 PM »
Guess we're done here, unless jtp56 would like to continue in Godexists's place.

Godexists is still allowed to participate!  I think he is upset at me. 

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #583 on: November 01, 2011, 09:33:00 PM »
Guess we're done here, unless jtp56 would like to continue in Godexists's place.

Godexists is still allowed to participate!  I think he is upset at me.
Right, I meant that Godexists doesn't seem likely or interested in continuing.

Offline caveat_imperator

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #584 on: November 02, 2011, 01:35:40 AM »
Maybe he'll come back after he gets tired of having his ass handed to him at the other forum. But then he'd just get his ass handed to him here once again. ;D
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #585 on: November 02, 2011, 08:36:41 AM »
It also seems that he believes that a person will be judged based on their actual actions once they get to their eventual destinations, so a nonbeliever who committed horrible crimes will face worse punishment for that, and a believer who committed horrible crimes will get a lesser reward because of that

It's the only way of resolving the crud within Christinsanity.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


You can't just go around pardoning people by grace, or Christians would go berserk and have orgies. So, you have to keep the meritocracy of Judaism, but pretend to be saved by the spirit of Jesus, and you are acting in God's will, because you say so.

However

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

As the Matthew quotes from Justin Martyr's apologies show, the person who redacted Matthew, did so using a machete, so you can't trust anything in Matthew. And we have no quotes from JM, to show what was in the original Matthew.

Maybe he'll come back after he gets tired of having his ass handed to him at the other forum. But then he'd just get his ass handed to him here once again. ;D

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Offline Astreja

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #586 on: November 02, 2011, 05:45:20 PM »
Maybe he'll come back after he gets tired of having his ass handed to him at the other forum.

I don't think so.  More likely, he'll look for a fresh enclave of Evil Atheists™ to annoy with his copypasta and Argumentum ad LalalalaIdon'thearyou.
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Offline jewishcarpentryfan

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #587 on: November 07, 2011, 12:38:32 PM »
To the OP: If not the Big Bang, then what? We know that if God created the universe, then it is finite. If it's finite, there has to be a starting point. Why can't the starting point be a big bang?

1. Go read what the Big Bang Theory actually says.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang_theory

2. Bunk.  If you claim that God can exist without a cause, why then can't the universe?

God is eternal. There was no point in the past that God was born or created, because essentially, the past doesn't exist for God. Our universe is bound by space and time, so everything is finite. God is completely limitless, and not bound by space or time. God can't have a beginning and and end because He does not adhere to linear time.

Offline velkyn

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #588 on: November 07, 2011, 01:23:29 PM »
To the OP: If not the Big Bang, then what? We know that if God created the universe, then it is finite. If it's finite, there has to be a starting point. Why can't the starting point be a big bang?
  Well, because that would make your myths nonsense even more than they are now.   Your creation myth fails even more ridiculously if you accept the Big Bang Theory as viable. 

Quote
God is eternal. There was no point in the past that God was born or created, because essentially, the past doesn't exist for God. Our universe is bound by space and time, so everything is finite. God is completely limitless, and not bound by space or time. God can't have a beginning and and end because He does not adhere to linear time.

God is a fictional character.  Unless you can show evidence it exists?   Can you?   All theists claim their gods are real and their religion is teh "right" way to worship such beings.  And all of them have no better evidence than the rest. 

And per your bible, your god supposedly does adhere to time and is ruled by it.   He must wait until things happen to react.  Jsut like any human does.  This nonsense about how God is not in "linear" time is a nice little modern addition to excuse the impotence and evident non-existence of your god. 
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #589 on: November 07, 2011, 01:29:38 PM »
To the OP: If not the Big Bang, then what? We know that if God created the universe, then it is finite. If it's finite, there has to be a starting point. Why can't the starting point be a big bang?

1. Go read what the Big Bang Theory actually says.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang_theory

2. Bunk.  If you claim that God can exist without a cause, why then can't the universe?

God is eternal. There was no point in the past that God was born or created, because essentially, the past doesn't exist for God. Our universe is bound by space and time, so everything is finite. God is completely limitless, and not bound by space or time. God can't have a beginning and and end because He does not adhere to linear time.


That in no way invalidates the question. This is just a series of unsupported assumptions and assertions. You are still engaging in special pleading
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #590 on: November 07, 2011, 02:11:35 PM »
To the OP: If not the Big Bang, then what? We know that if God created the universe, then it is finite. If it's finite, there has to be a starting point. Why can't the starting point be a big bang?

....


God is eternal. There was no point in the past that God was born or created, because essentially, the past doesn't exist for God. Our universe is bound by space and time, so everything is finite. God is completely limitless, and not bound by space or time. God can't have a beginning and and end because He does not adhere to linear time.


Even if we assume that something created the universe, you need to explain why your particular god concept is the one true way.  You've given us nothing to assume it couldn't have been Zeus or some other unknown god figure.  For that matter, why not multiple gods?  The universe is a big place after all...

Saying "biblegod makes the most sense" proves nothing, as it's just an assertion.

At best, creationism can only point to the god of deism.
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Offline Historicity

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #591 on: November 07, 2011, 05:05:30 PM »
God can't have a beginning and and end because He does not adhere to linear time.

There is a whiff of postmodernism about this.  PMs like to complain about "linear thinking" and some have then complained that Newton used "linear equations" which caused "linear thinking."[1]

Taking that literally that leads to such conclusions as:

   God exists in a curlicue time and comes back and crosses over history and Himself again & again.
   God exists in another time dimension as well.  That would accommodate going sideways into other universes will parallel divergent histories.
   God exists in a time loop and when this universe comes to an end he loops back to the beginning and does the same thing over.

All very interesting but since we have to consider there are assertions about the monotheistic Creator God but no evidence.
 1. See Fashionable Nonsense by Sokol.

Offline Astreja

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #592 on: November 07, 2011, 09:07:41 PM »
God is eternal. There was no point in the past that God was born or created, because essentially, the past doesn't exist for God. Our universe is bound by space and time, so everything is finite. God is completely limitless, and not bound by space or time. God can't have a beginning and and end because He does not adhere to linear time.
Got any evidence for this, or is this just something that you believe?
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Offline Rustybeatz

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #593 on: November 08, 2011, 06:13:44 PM »
God is eternal. There was no point in the past that God was born or created, because essentially, the past doesn't exist for God. Our universe is bound by space and time, so everything is finite. God is completely limitless, and not bound by space or time. God can't have a beginning and and end because He does not adhere to linear time.
Got any evidence for this, or is this just something that you believe?

When I was brought up as a Christian I was always told to back anything up with biblical verses.  I wonder if there's anywhere in the bible that talks about God not adhering to linear time.  It must be in the book of Advanced Mathematics, right before the Gospels.

Offline jewishcarpentryfan

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #594 on: November 09, 2011, 12:16:27 PM »


What "myth" are you referring to?



All we need is this simple deduction:
1. God created the universe
2. Therefore, God is outside the universe
     a. The universe is bound by space and time
     b. If God is outside the universe, He is not bound by space or time
3. Therefore, God is not bound by space and time.

It is my understanding that only Mormons hold the doctrine that God is a physical being somewhere in a distant galaxy...which isn't Biblical doctrine. If anyone can cite scripture saying that this is true, please provide it.


Offline plethora

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #595 on: November 09, 2011, 12:24:06 PM »
All we need is this simple deduction:
1. God created the universe
2. Therefore, God is outside the universe
     a. The universe is bound by space and time
     b. If God is outside the universe, He is not bound by space or time
3. Therefore, God is not bound by space and time.

You didn't address the concerns that several people asked you.

Which god is it? How do you know it's not Zeus or Odin or Quetzalcoatl?
How do you know it's one god and not multiple gods?
Prove that anything at all exists outside of space and time.

You are assuming a god exists with no evidence and not only that, but believing in a particular god of a particular brand of religion. You need to justify your beliefs or you will persuade no one.

Quote
It is my understanding that only Mormons hold the doctrine that God is a physical being somewhere in a distant galaxy...which isn't Biblical doctrine. If anyone can cite scripture saying that this is true, please provide it.

I don't believe scripture holds any value. So, in short, I don't give a rat's ass what scripture says. Before I lend it any credibility, I need proof that it is indeed the word of a god that need to be proven to exist in the first place.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline velkyn

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #596 on: November 09, 2011, 12:35:02 PM »


What "myth" are you referring to?
Assuming you are responding to me, the myths that comprise your religion. Stories about gods and demons tht are not supported by evidence.  Your myths are the same as all others. 


Quote
All we need is this simple deduction:
1. God created the universe
2. Therefore, God is outside the universe
     a. The universe is bound by space and time
     b. If God is outside the universe, He is not bound by space or time
3. Therefore, God is not bound by space and time.

It is my understanding that only Mormons hold the doctrine that God is a physical being somewhere in a distant galaxy...which isn't Biblical doctrine. If anyone can cite scripture saying that this is true, please provide it.
wow, nice initial baseless assumption, that your god exists.  Please do prove that.  And more assumptions.  No, it doesn't follow that God must be outside the universe.  This being is omnipotent right, aka it can do anything? 

And it also doesn't automatiaclly follow that this god even if it is outside the universe, is not bound by space and time.  *If* the bible is to be believed, it is constantly bound by space and time, needing it for every action.

And hilarious for you to claim what is and what isn't "biblical doctrine".  It doesnt' support your claims either.   ;D  Such is the failure of the claims of being the OneTrueChristiantm.  Your bible repeatedly claims that God has a physcial body, he even showed his backside to Moses.  Your god likes the smell of burning flesh.  He has someway to smell, a big godly "nose".  Over and over again, we have the same type of god that was popular in the Bronze/Iron Ages, just a big exaggerated human.

Your ignorance of your own bible is not suprising.  I wonder if you thought that atheists couldn't respond to your demand for a verse from the bible.  Many of us, including me, were Christians once.  I've read the bible in its entirety, at least twice, as believer and as not, plus bunches of it many more time.  Often in response to the lies of Christians about it. 

And now cue the indignant claims that we couldn't ever have been TrueChristianstm.
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #597 on: November 09, 2011, 12:44:51 PM »
You didn't address the concerns that several people asked you.

Which god is it? How do you know it's not Zeus or Odin or Quetzalcoatl?
How do you know it's one god and not multiple gods?
Prove that anything at all exists outside of space and time.

Another thing that a lot of people overlook, too: the question of whether a god -- any god -- exists is separate from whether that being created the universe.  That is, it's not inconsistent or illogical in any way to say that god exists but that he did not create the universe.  (I brought this up in one of my philosophy classes in college and was rather surprised to see that it hadn't occurred to anyone else in the class.)

That being the case, even if we were to stip to the existence of Yahweh and say that that being was the only deity that exists, it still would not necessarily follow that the universe is his creation.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #598 on: November 09, 2011, 12:46:02 PM »
What "myth" are you referring to?

What myth do you think?

All we need is this simple deduction:

That is not a deduction.  That is a boatload of fail.

1. God created the universe

unsubstantiated premise

2. Therefore, God is outside the universe

conclusion without an argument.  Typically it goes along the lines of:
  • if X then Y
  • X
  • thus, Y
You altogether failed to make a coherent argument.

and, it's unsubstantiated.  You cannot even explain what "outside the universe" means. You probably imagine just a bigger universe in which yhwh lives, and inside it - maybe in a box or a snowglobe type of thing - our universe. 

     a. The universe is bound by space and time

unsubstantiated.  I don't even know what that means.

     b. If God is outside the universe, He is not bound by space or time

unsubstantiated. He could be bound by a local time-space continuum. But that could have weird implications.  It could be tied to our time-space or it could make yhwh completely cut off from ours.  Who the heck even knows what any of this means?  Just because we can write the words does not mean they have any real meaning.  brick peanut aerospack.  See?

3. Therefore, God is not bound by space and time.

wow.  two "therefores" in one "deduction".  book-ending the whole thing, no less.

If anyone can cite scripture saying that this is true, please provide it.

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Offline Aaron123

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #599 on: November 09, 2011, 03:20:25 PM »
All we need is this simple deduction:
1. God created the universe

Unsupported assertation.


Quote
2. Therefore, God is outside the universe
     

Unsupported assertation.


Quote
a. The universe is bound by space and time
     b. If God is outside the universe, He is not bound by space or time

Unsupported assertation.


Quote
3. Therefore, God is not bound by space and time.

Unsupported assertation.


Seriously, if you're going to make claims, then back them up.  Don't just make a conclusion, then come up with stuff to support it.

Which god are you talking about?  Why not multiple gods?  What does it means to be "outside the universe"?   How is one "not bound by time and space"?  I see a lot of fancy words, but nothing to explain what they mean.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #600 on: November 09, 2011, 03:37:02 PM »
All we need is this simple deduction:
1. God created the universe


Define God. Do not use circular term or weasel words
Secondly, show the evidence that this "god" created the universe
Third, show how this relates to the deity describe in an old book of Hebrew legends is related to said god. Provide evidence.


2. Therefore, God is outside the universe

So does that must mean the alledged God therefore is not interacting with said universe? If a fictional Charcter is"outside" of England in 1760...that character does not interact with anything in England. If this God does act on the universe it is outside of, by what method does it interact with the universe. Show evidence of how you know.


     a. The universe is bound by space and time
     b. If God is outside the universe, He is not bound by space or time


Please show me the evidence that space or time does not exist outside the universe, yet can support the existence of one or more beings which apparently enough context to understand space and time to interact with the universe. Again please provide evidence.


3. Therefore, God is not bound by space and time.

Again please show evidence of this assertion...because there are numerous faults in the leading premises.


An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline ungod

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #601 on: November 09, 2011, 04:33:51 PM »
Quote
Quote from: jewishcarpentryfan on November 07, 2011, 12:38:32 PM

    God is eternal. There was no point in the past that God was born or created, because essentially, the past doesn't exist for God. Our universe is bound by space and time, so everything is finite. God is completely limitless, and not bound by space or time. God can't have a beginning and and end because He does not adhere to linear time.

Oh dear. What does He do when we switch to Daylight Saving Time??
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Offline Iamrational

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #602 on: November 15, 2011, 09:14:39 AM »
Hello everyone. I am a big fan of the site and forum. Most of you are out of my league so I won't be able to add too much more than you already have in such great detail. I would like to address one thing though. Theist like GE and others I have read here under different topics take the stance that you believe what you want and I will believe what I feel is the truth and no harm, no foul. This stance bothers me and I hope it bothers other rational people. It is so harmful because their idea to "just" believe whatever they want has killed millions of people over time. It goes back to that goofy Pascal's Wager. Yeah no big deal if I and so many others just believe in God because if we are right then we get salvation, maybe get our own planet, and also throw in some virgins depending on what denomination is the winner. Well yes big deal when you decide to slit my throat because I looked at your property, I mean wife. In summary, Religion is deadly.

Offline velkyn

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #603 on: November 15, 2011, 10:01:41 AM »
welcome to the forum, Iamrational.  Good post and I think you'll hold your own here with no problem.
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Offline used to believe

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #604 on: December 02, 2011, 07:11:53 PM »
The Universe is expanding,, a fact,,
IF  its still expanding, then it had to be smaller at some point, real small, like singularity small, how it got there I dont have a clue, but I wont lie and say a Loving God put it there,, its just that I cant explain it, so many therorys,, big bang, string ,, its all pretty confusing, but SCIENCE will figure it out,, I am amazed at the number of real scientist that straddle the fence, believing there own science yet still profess a religious background
  Before I got sick, with Charcot Marie Tooth,, I was a good Christian, did my part of spreading teh Word, but as I got sicker and was tossed around like a rag doll, told I wasent sick,, was only seeking attention,, was told maybe a short stint in the psych ward would help me,, getting sicker and sicker,, traveled to Mayo Clinic, watched my family watch me losing control over my body,, watched Doctors bail out on e when they said I was to complex, and finnaly one doctor put it together,, through all this I prayed,, and and man did I pray,, I never got the answer I wanted,, in fact I never got any kind of answer, I see kids suffering with cancer,, I see huanity killing off each other,, and were here talking about wether the big bang happened, we need not look an further then our own backyard to see the failures of mankind, forget about the big bang,, its something that happened,, and some day we;ll have our answers through SCIENCE

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Re: The big bang theory is bs!
« Reply #605 on: December 03, 2011, 10:04:03 AM »
The Universe is expanding,, a fact,,
IF  its still expanding, then it had to be smaller at some point, real small, like singularity small, how it got there I dont have a clue, but I wont lie and say a Loving God put it there,, its just that I cant explain it, so many therorys,, big bang, string ,, its all pretty confusing, but SCIENCE will figure it out,, I am amazed at the number of real scientist that straddle the fence, believing there own science yet still profess a religious background
  Before I got sick, with Charcot Marie Tooth,, I was a good Christian, did my part of spreading teh Word, but as I got sicker and was tossed around like a rag doll, told I wasent sick,, was only seeking attention,, was told maybe a short stint in the psych ward would help me,, getting sicker and sicker,, traveled to Mayo Clinic, watched my family watch me losing control over my body,, watched Doctors bail out on e when they said I was to complex, and finnaly one doctor put it together,, through all this I prayed,, and and man did I pray,, I never got the answer I wanted,, in fact I never got any kind of answer, I see kids suffering with cancer,, I see huanity killing off each other,, and were here talking about wether the big bang happened, we need not look an further then our own backyard to see the failures of mankind, forget about the big bang,, its something that happened,, and some day we;ll have our answers through SCIENCE

Please write SCIENCE in very big letters. It annoys them.

I believe that the universe has no external dimension, so you cannot say it's small or large from the outside, but it sure appears big from the inside, because we are real small. Spacial expansion could be internal shrinkage.


Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.